Starfleet Jedi

Let's say that a wormhole opens to Earth from the SW galaxy. From it, there a group of explorers finds modern day Earth and makes contact with the leaders on the planet. All the while, the Clone Wars are going on and the Separatists find out that Earth has over six billion people, millions of which are soldiers. Hoping to add a militarized planet to their forces, they come and make peaceful contact with Earth. The Republic learns of this and they also send down an envoy to try to ensure that Earth comes in on the Republic's side since our knowledge of war will be useful to them. The major countries (U.S., Russia, Great Britain, etc.) decide to remain neutral. Others, however, decide to support one side or the other, most supporting the Separatists, with the major countries very wary of the Republic. Eventually, Palpatine "asks" the other Earth countries to remove the Separatists from the planet. The major countries, however, state that they are neutral and will not take sides, but will defend themselves. Dooku, eventually comes to try to give Earth, secifically the NATO countries, a reason to join the Separatists. NATO lets him send an ambassador and they listen, but still decide to be neutral. Though, they are beginning to take precautions against a possible invasion. Palpatine uses this visit as an excuse to anex Earth, saying that Earth is leaning towards the Separatists, if they aren't already joining with them, and he sends a force of four Venator Class Star Destroyers, with full crew compliments, and four Acclamator Class transports with troopers to occupy Earth and ensure that Earth comes in on the side of the Republic. The assault is led by Mace Windu with Generals Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker, and Padawan Ahsoka Tano as back up. Earth's radar detects them coming into orbit, since they had already taken precautions so they are not caught totally off guard by the invasion. Other precautions have already been taken as well.

I know that realistically, given the fact that the Republic is a galactic government, there should be no way Earth should have a ghost of a chance against an invasion force like this (given that I'm stating the Venators and Acclamators are fully crewed and equipped), but given what we've seen in Clone Wars concerning the firepower and shielding of their ships, the abilities of their fighters, and assume that the current Clone Troopers numbers estimates are true, theoretically, Earth could cripple the "Grand Army of the Republic" simply by being smart and having extensive knowledge of war, compared to both the Republic and the Separatists, and especially if one of those "precautions" is to put nuclear warheads onto space capable rockets.

So, who wins? Can Earth actually defeat the Republic's assault force, and if so, what would the Republic do after that since Earth is just one planet?

Well since you are talking actual modern day Earth and not Earth from any "present" day scifi universe I'd say we are pretty much toast. Given what we have seen the Separatists would never come to our aid anyhow if invaded they would abandon us so fast our heads would spin. Truth be told be it an invasion by either side we would be totally screwed. But the republic would sure come here baring teeth to extricate the insurgents unlike the separatists who would not lift a finger to help us if the situation is reversed.

No chance of hope.

Any ballistic missile will be noticed. Fighters will need to be equipped with nukes, and knowing how governments are likely to act, they'll just fire one nuke as a test.
It will fail, but it will be too late then to attempts using more powerful nukes. Ships will depart, and level some cities for the example, while starfighters will intercept our airfighters.
Globally, all military bases will be attacked and destroyed.
I just cannot see how we stand a chance.

Eventually, if the Republic is confident and plays it nice, they'll land ships and erect camps around them, possibly giving us the opportunity to get some nukes nearby if we have no attempted to attack them beforehand.

The best thing Earth can do is comply, and try to learn as much as possible, get trained in the GAR (hoping no brainwash) and betray the Republic with strategic assaults.

If the Republic forces can get back through the wormhole, they call reinforcements.
If not, they'll probably try to conquer us. But the Jedi... I just cannot see them going down that path.
If they do so, they're Sith, and therefore will likely level most cities with moderate firepower, and settle colonies in low population areas, where food can be cultivated and areas easily patrolled.

All in all, if the ships can indeed come back through the wormhole, their captains may never care, and use those resources in the SW galaxy for the war.

I have difficulty seeing us take out the invasion force, but thinking more about this, I do think that we can put up a fight. If we have competent leadership, I think that realistically, we can take out at least one of their Venators. Don't forget, that we have already been visited by ambassadors and they were trying to convince us to join them. That means they would likely offer us shield technology and likely energy weapons, or at least mention that they have them, in order to entice us to come out on their side. They may give us out-dated tech, but it would make competent leaders think, so I don't think that we'd take it easy on a nuke test. And if one failed, I think that we'd be ready with more. As for the atmospheric and ground battles, I think that we'll hold our own. Our tanks and gunships can damage theirs, given what we've seen of their weapons' power and vehicle durability. For fighters, I think that it will be a tale of two fights. The ranged battle will see us winning due to the fact that we use missiles for anti-fighter purposes (besides the Y-Wings, do any of the Republic fighters have missiles?). However, once we run out of missiles and have to get into dogfight range, the Republic fighters will have a distinct advantage over ours. Shielded fighters like the Y-Wings will be trouble even at range, but I think that a couple missiles should deal with them. But they'll be death in the dogfights due to their shields. In the end, the problem will be the Venators. We won't be able to deal with four of them and they can bomb our cities from orbit and take out our important bases.

What really interests me is what will happen after we lose the main war? How would the Republic treat us? Will we be able to be relatively autonomous? If not, how would we react? How effective would an insurgency be against the Republic? Would we secretly ask for aid from the Separatists? Would they secretly aid any insurgency we start? Would our insurgency be successful? Would the Republic have to be careful in how they treat us since if they go too hard on us, the Jedi may become suspicious of them, or the Separatists will use this as propaganda stating that the Republic is corrupt and evil, using the subjugation of Earth as evidence?

One: The jedi will not allow them to destroy our cities as long as we keep civilians in them

Two: The first wave is annihilated in a nuclear attack from ground based facilities and aircraft... All subsequent waves will run the risk of reprisal from naval forces under the sea.

Three: The jedi will not be infiltrating major military facilities... we have something called security cameras... and shoot to kill orders... and we are not above destroying our own structures to kill the jedi... Hell, if I found a jedi was in the pentagon I'd order a small tactical nuke to be detonated on top of it just to make sure I killed the jedi.

Four: They simply do not have the forces to conquer earth.

I mean honestly people were talking what... 64 thousand clone troopers? They can't possibly hope to police earth with that, and whenever their large ships move within range of ground based radar they risk mass nuclear missile fire...

At the end of the day earth holds the forces at bay until the separatists arrive. Earth sees the republic for what it is and unites against it... and begins to field its own space worthy army and navy with supplies and technology from the separatists. By mobilizing the full armies of earth suddenly the republic will have a major thorn in her side and regret that she ever attacked earth.

Trinoya wrote: One: The jedi will not allow them to destroy our cities as long as we keep civilians in them

That advantage will only last 1-3 years before the Jedi are exterminated by Palpatine.

Trinoya wrote:Two: The first wave is annihilated in a nuclear attack from ground based facilities and aircraft... All subsequent waves will run the risk of reprisal from naval forces under the sea.

I don't necessarily see this working, especially if the nuclear weapons are delivered by missles, or aircraft as the Republic fleet in theory should be able to shoot down the slow moving chemical propulsion craft at leisure, either with turbolasers, and or starfighters flying escort of the landing forces.

Trinoya wrote:Three: The jedi will not be infiltrating major military facilities... we have something called security cameras... and shoot to kill orders... and we are not above destroying our own structures to kill the jedi... Hell, if I found a jedi was in the pentagon I'd order a small tactical nuke to be detonated on top of it just to make sure I killed the jedi.

Jedi probably won't be inflitrating anything, they'll be leading the invasion forces as generals. Whether Clone troopers or non-clone conventional spies could do that job remains to be seen, and such a thing has been successfully carried out all throughout history to modern times.

Trinoya wrote:Four: They simply do not have the forces to conquer earth
I mean honestly people were talking what... 64 thousand clone troopers? They can't possibly hope to police earth with that, and whenever their large ships move within range of ground based radar they risk mass nuclear missile fire....

Not with such small numbers, no. However, as per above, the threat of anything except tactical nuclear weapons shouldn't pose too much of a problem to the Republic fleet since they can shoot down our slow and primative rockets. Also, if the Republic forces utilize shields like those the Gungans used in TPM, it could nulify most conventional artillery as well as small tac nukes.

Trinoya wrote:At the end of the day earth holds the forces at bay until the separatists arrive. Earth sees the republic for what it is and unites against it... and begins to field its own space worthy army and navy with supplies and technology from the separatists. By mobilizing the full armies of earth suddenly the republic will have a major thorn in her side and regret that she ever attacked earth.

I could see it as a point where the Republic could get bogged down, but Earth will not be as well off as you make it out to be. Ultimately it simply will go very badly for Earth in the end once Palpatine sets in motion Order 66 and declares the formation of the Galactic Empire as per the events of RoTS. Earth's only hope is the wormhole closes, or all SW forces Republic or Seperatist withdraw before the formation of the Empire.
-Mike

Trinoya wrote: One: The jedi will not allow them to destroy our cities as long as we keep civilians in them

That advantage will only last 1-3 years before the Jedi are exterminated by Palpatine.

Trinoya wrote:Two: The first wave is annihilated in a nuclear attack from ground based facilities and aircraft... All subsequent waves will run the risk of reprisal from naval forces under the sea.

I don't necessarily see this working, especially if the nuclear weapons are delivered by missles, or aircraft as the Republic fleet in theory should be able to shoot down the slow moving chemical propulsion craft at leisure, either with turbolasers, and or starfighters flying escort of the landing forces.

Trinoya wrote:Three: The jedi will not be infiltrating major military facilities... we have something called security cameras... and shoot to kill orders... and we are not above destroying our own structures to kill the jedi... Hell, if I found a jedi was in the pentagon I'd order a small tactical nuke to be detonated on top of it just to make sure I killed the jedi.

Jedi probably won't be inflitrating anything, they'll be leading the invasion forces as generals. Whether Clone troopers or non-clone conventional spies could do that job remains to be seen, and such a thing has been successfully carried out all throughout history to modern times.

Trinoya wrote:Four: They simply do not have the forces to conquer earth
I mean honestly people were talking what... 64 thousand clone troopers? They can't possibly hope to police earth with that, and whenever their large ships move within range of ground based radar they risk mass nuclear missile fire....

Not with such small numbers, no. However, as per above, the threat of anything except tactical nuclear weapons shouldn't pose too much of a problem to the Republic fleet since they can shoot down our slow and primative rockets. Also, if the Republic forces utilize shields like those the Gungans used in TPM, it could nulify most conventional artillery as well as small tac nukes.

Trinoya wrote:At the end of the day earth holds the forces at bay until the separatists arrive. Earth sees the republic for what it is and unites against it... and begins to field its own space worthy army and navy with supplies and technology from the separatists. By mobilizing the full armies of earth suddenly the republic will have a major thorn in her side and regret that she ever attacked earth.

I could see it as a point where the Republic could get bogged down, but Earth will not be as well off as you make it out to be. Ultimately it simply will go very badly for Earth in the end once Palpatine sets in motion Order 66 and declares the formation of the Galactic Empire as per the events of RoTS. Earth's only hope is the wormhole closes, or all SW forces Republic or Seperatist withdraw before the formation of the Empire.
-Mike

First question:Just how much has Earth prepared? How much have we learned of the GAR? As in tactics, stratagy etc. I guess I want to know exactly what we are dealing with.

Second question: would the Seperatist trade technolagy or protection to Earth assuming we win? Since the Galactic republic has the numbers to reduce us to pulp if they truly want too we are going to need some friends to survive past the short term.

As my best guess on what happens, assuming mordern earth tech just with everything mobilized, is we lose. We'll get in a few licks of course. A nuke, either via rocket or buried beneath a landing transport, will more or less ensure the ground war is short and heavily lop sided. The warships however should easily be able to stay out of gunnery range and bombard the planet from orbit and even assuming they refuse to target civilian cities can reduce our military to scrap in fairly short order. Now if Earth has spent the last few years mass producing capitol ship killers or the Sepertists handed over a few hand-me down techs it might change things but as is we can only hope to be a foot note.

Mike DiCenso wrote:Also, if the Republic forces utilize shields like those the Gungans used in TPM, it could nulify most conventional artillery as well as small tac nukes.

I wasn't aware of any strenght calcuations on the Gungan shields unless it's from the CGI show which I haven't gotten around to watching. As far as I know the only thing we seen them stop was Trade federatin tank fire which wasn't overly impressive.

To answer sonofccn's first question as to how much Earth has prepared, they have rudimentary knowledge of the Republic's tactics, as a gift from the Separatists, but that is all. They know the Separatists left some things out, as an incentive for Earth to join the Separatists. Also, construction of space-capable high yield (megaton level at least, with some as strong as the Tsar Bomb) nuclear warhead armed rockets has begun, and a number of missiles have already been developed by the time the Republic attacks so we can strike at the Republic ships in orbit. These missiles are limited in number, though, but should give Earth a chance against the fleet, if Earth picks its targets properly. If we were to only go after the Venators with the nukes and force the Acclamators to come to the ground, we may be able to destroy or damage the first four Venator Star Destroyers. There are conditions to make this more likely, however, since the fighters of the ships may be able to shoot the rockets down. If we used nukes to take out the fighter screens, it would be easier to take out the Venators, but I would say that Earth would only get one shot at this. If we do it right, we can win. If we do it wrong, we better hope the Republic is stupid and brings their Venators into the atmosphere (which isn't out of the realm of possibility) so we can fight them where we are stronger.

As for the second question, I honestly don't know. I can see Earth entering into an alliance of some sort. But I was wondering what everyone else thought would happen. Not only what would happen with Earth and the Separatists, but how a victory like this, if Earth wins, could be used by the Separatists. Also, how would the Republic and its people react to having a Republic task force be defeated by a pre-hyperdrive planet only beginning to delve into energy weapons technology? I can see several possibilities for this scenerio.

sonofccn wrote: I wasn't aware of any strength calculations on the Gungan shields unless it's from the CGI show which I haven't gotten around to watching. As far as I know the only thing we seen them stop was Trade federation tank fire which wasn't overly impressive.

It's almost impossible to determine an upper limit to their shields since the Trade Federation droid army did not bring down the shields with their tanks artillery after several minutes of continuous fire from what are roughly double-digit megajoule range cannons. Given how many tanks the TF battalion had and how long the bombardment of the shields lasted, it isn't too unreasonable to assume the shield could survive possibly even a small tactical nuke.
-Mike

Okay so Earth has some ICBM scale missiles designed to knock out the Galactic Republic warships. That at least means we are not totally defenseless against them but the odds are still greatly in the Republic's favor. A straight up fight would most likely only serve to waste ammo, Republic fire control isn't the greatest but between PD guns and fighters they should shred our missile formations, so to really have a chance to pull it off I think we need a more Romulan approach to war.

When the fleet arrives we immediately hail them, I'm assuming we have picked up enough to contact their ships when we want too, and inform them that we wish to surrender. Since we are a primitive backwater world I think they would agree to this, we are after all not a threat, and then allow one of our shuttles to dock with them to bring aboard our repersenative. The shuttle will of course be carrying a thermal nuclear warhead which shouldn't alert any on board the Republic flagship since everyone uses nuclear reactors so any stray reading of such elements would be considered normal and besides War's sensor tech isn't the greatest out there. Once we dock the shuttle crew sacrifices their lives and sets off the bomb which should at least cripple the warship if not blow it to hell and gone. At the same moment we fire every missile we have that is capable of reaching them, they would have no doubt entered upper orbit to reach our representative that much faster instead of waiting for a slow chemical propelled shuttle to reach them, with priority to the Venator. The Acclamators , while deadly in their own right, I would try to capture assuming they landed to disembark their troops. It is after all a transport first not a battleship and a mixture of tactical nukes and good old Earth Combined arms should tear the Grand army of the Republic to shreds. This would provide us with raw technology and hopefully improve our bargaining position to the sepertist. We wouldn't appear to need them as much and could argue for more help in backwards engineering then we might have otherwise. Of course since the whole thing is Palpy's little dinner theater things could get very ugly for Earth.

Mike DiCenso wrote:It's almost impossible to determine an upper limit to their shields since the Trade Federation droid army did not bring down the shields with their tanks artillery after several minutes of continuous fire from what are roughly double-digit megajoule range cannons. Given how many tanks the TF battalion had and how long the bombardment of the shields lasted, it isn't too unreasonable to assume the shield could survive possibly even a small tactical nuke.
-Mike

I stand corrected, thank you. I then hope that the Grand army doesn't have them in their arsenal. AT-TE would be a big enough pain to deal with.

One thing, though, is that even though this war is Palpatine's dinner theater, the entrance of Earth into the conflict could have some unforseen side-effects. First off is that the Separatists don't have many good strategists, from what I've seen considering how they fight, in their army. We were able to fight off an assault from the Galactic Republic with only our meager technology. That means that we have strategies that work against the Republic. Imagine what we could do with the technology of the Separatists. Even if we only gave them ideas or tactics as to how to fight, it could change things significantly, in more ways than one since Palpatine and likely Dooku won't let there be any real danger to the Republic since the war is a sham. I could see some leaders, or other members of the Separatists wondering what is going on if our ideas for causing real damage to the Republic get shot down by Dooku and Sidious time and time again. It would also especially send up warning flags for the forces of Earth as well that something strange is going on with this conflict. That could cause some real problems and I wonder what would happen then.

Mike D wrote:I don't necessarily see this working, especially if the nuclear weapons are delivered by missles, or aircraft as the Republic fleet in theory should be able to shoot down the slow moving chemical propulsion craft at leisure, either with turbolasers, and or starfighters flying escort of the landing forces.

I have trouble seeing this happen as the pretty much everyone in SW has been shown to have trouble hitting the side of a barn at point blank range, so even though our missiles may be slow compared to those seen in SW, they will not all be shot down, and all we need is one multi-kiloton hit to bring down a ship (as seen in the movies or the CW series)...

Enterprise E wrote:One thing, though, is that even though this war is Palpatine's dinner theater, the entrance of Earth into the conflict could have some unforseen side-effects. First off is that the Separatists don't have many good strategists, from what I've seen considering how they fight, in their army. We were able to fight off an assault from the Galactic Republic with only our meager technology. That means that we have strategies that work against the Republic. Imagine what we could do with the technology of the Separatists. Even if we only gave them ideas or tactics as to how to fight, it could change things significantly, in more ways than one since Palpatine and likely Dooku won't let there be any real danger to the Republic since the war is a sham. I could see some leaders, or other members of the Separatists wondering what is going on if our ideas for causing real damage to the Republic get shot down by Dooku and Sidious time and time again. It would also especially send up warning flags for the forces of Earth as well that something strange is going on with this conflict. That could cause some real problems and I wonder what would happen then.

Ground wise I agree with you completely. Even with out the addition of "alien" technology we could more or less wipe the GAR off the battlefield and the horrors we could field with advance robotics, shield technolagy, and stable plasma weapons boggles the mind.

Spacewise however we are sitting ducks. We might, with a lot of luck, take down the four warships and assorted troop transports with enough wreckage for study to speed up our own technology considerably but that is the best we could hope. It would be decades before we could truly start fielding warships that could slug it out with GR ships, through I imagine much cruder mobile missile platforms being built much sooner to protect the Sol system/Earth. If Sidious/Palpy decides we need to be removed he can do it, I'm not saying he can't underestimate us of course. He is more or less as flawed as any mortal by his own hubris/ego and could easily underestimate us even after we scrapped that tiny task force. The game however will be dangerous, more so then we can imagine on the onset.

Now assuming we can gain the favor of General Grevious or some other influencial separatist we might can force a rift into the separatist and really make this a war instead of a play. With us trading our best assets, our armies which would be ferryed by ships presumbly under their control, for older ships for protection and technology in general. That way we might survive long enough to advance to their level.

Praeothmin wrote:

Mike D wrote:I don't necessarily see this working, especially if the nuclear weapons are delivered by missiles, or aircraft as the Republic fleet in theory should be able to shoot down the slow moving chemical propulsion craft at leisure, either with turbolasers, and or starfighters flying escort of the landing forces.

I have trouble seeing this happen as the pretty much everyone in SW has been shown to have trouble hitting the side of a barn at point blank range, so even though our missiles may be slow compared to those seen in SW, they will not all be shot down, and all we need is one multi-kiloton hit to bring down a ship (as seen in the movies or the CW series)...

Although they may not be the greatest shots in the multiverse, all they need to do is land their shots close enough for the turbolaser flak bursts to knock out the missiles and MIRVS that get sent the Republic fleet's way, and don't forget that the fighters will be there to mop up what does not get hit by the star destroyer gun batteries.
-Mike