The Forerunner Appear in Star Wars

[User1354]

Saw this at SBC and thought I see how it goes here, having been slightly modified.

The Forerunners, after 300 years of war with the Flood decide to jump the entire Maginot Sphere into a different universe.

Unfortunately for all parties involved, they arrive the Star Wars galaxy (in some previously empty sector, if none a thousand light-years across are available, their above the galactic plane).

Due to their other-universe-y-ness they are distinctly lacking in Force presence(think the YV).

The Ark and the Halos are left behind, but there is nothing to stop them building more.

(Note: Due to 300 years of hopeless war, these are the Forerunners after they have harden up and are now more willing to "bend" the rules sooner,so they are not as interested in the 'Mantle' anymore, but are instead more interested in reasserting themselves(although no necessarily through war).

For timelines: everything.

[Mike DiCenso]

Are we talking about the ICS Star Wars or George Lucas' Star Wars-Prime, or the regular, low-powered EU?
-Mike

[User1354]

Are we talking about the ICS Star Wars or George Lucas' Star Wars-Prime, or the regular, low-powered EU?
-Mike

Sorry, forgot to add that, just use the ICS just for the fun of it, I still see the following outcome: Watch Forerunner meet GE.
Watch GE start war.
Watch as GE cries uncle.
Watch Forerunner reach Imperial Center to meet the Emperor and Vader.
Watch Forerunner cram the Emperor and Vader in a super-tiny room somehow, somewhere in a Halo.

[l33telboi]

…just use the ICS just for the fun of it…

Then the Forerunners are doomed by a single Super Stardestroyer.

We saw a number of Forerunner Dreadnaughts be destroyed by something so weak that it merely exploded a planet. An SSD can explode a planet with a one second burst from its weapons.

Very few people actually understand just how outlandish the figures in the ICS are.

And yes, you read that right, an SSD can destroy (as in explode) with a one second burst from its weapons.

[Praeothmin]

I believe, l33telboi, that you are confusing the Forerunners, the people who created the Halos, with the Covenant, the Aliens who discovered them...

Any race that can create Halos, planetary rings capable of sustaining life, all over the Galaxy, or eradicating life in a flash when activated, will simply cream the Empire, ICS or not...

[Roondar]

Very few people actually understand just how outlandish the figures in the ICS are.

And yes, you read that right, an SSD can destroy (as in explode) with a one second burst from its weapons.

The ICS tagline.. Does it happen to be: the wank is strong in this one... ?

But that only becomes even more funny when you realize the suggestion is made that these figures fit the on-screen stuff in the SW canon perfectly ;)

Anyway, I do have to agree that beings that can create/destroy life at will from 'any' distance and across barriers will still beat the GE. Even with the ICS-wank, err I mean, force.

Time for a new book then? :P

[l33telboi]

I believe, l33telboi, that you are confusing the Forerunners, the people who created the Halos, with the Covenant, the Aliens who discovered them...

No. I'm talking about Forerunner Dreadnaughts, destroyed by something as piddly as a small star exploding. Here's the incident I'm talking about.

Any race that can create Halos, planetary rings capable of sustaining life, all over the Galaxy, or eradicating life in a flash when activated, will simply cream the Empire, ICS or not...

No, because the ICS Empire, can outdo all of those things on a whim. Like I said, very few people have actually taken a good long look at what the figures in the ICS impy. You know that 900km Death Star? Well, it was actually a rather small project, construction-wise.

[User1354]

No. I'm talking about Forerunner Dreadnaughts, destroyed by something as piddly as a small star exploding. Here's the incident I'm talking about.

I don't see how a mini-supernova destroying an unknown number of unshielded Forerunner Dreadnoughts is that big a deal. Or is there something I forgot in the ICS about standard armor being that powerful *looks to Zhan Trilogy with shield SD being damage by star*

No, because the ICS Empire, can outdo all of those things on a whim. Like I said, very few people have actually taken a good long look at what the figures in the ICS impy. You know that 900km Death Star? Well, it was actually a rather small project, construction-wise.

Ok, it must have been a bit to long since I look through ICS, but how can ICS Empire out do push the big red button and bye bye galaxy stuff?

And the Empire can out build the Forerunner since when? The Forerunner could field tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of Dreadnoughts and still build The Ark, Halo Array and maybe 7 true Shield Worlds in a few years without the Flood and the rouge AI finding out about it for sometime.

[Mr. Oragahn]

No. I'm talking about Forerunner Dreadnaughts, destroyed by something as piddly as a small star exploding. Here's the incident I'm talking about.

I don't see how a mini-supernova destroying an unknown number of unshielded Forerunner Dreadnoughts is that big a deal.

They were breaking up under the artificially induced and increased gravitational pull of that smallish artificial sun. It was strong enough to prevent the Spirit of Fire (a converted civilian cargo ship for military purposes) to leave the artificial world.
The whole thing didn't make much sense : they slingshot around that star to gain extra speed. Too bad the star was located inside the planet and immobile relative to the planet.

Or is there something I forgot in the ICS about standard armor being that powerful *looks to Zhan Trilogy with shield SD being damage by star*

This trilogy is inferior canon to the movies that are inferior canon to the ICS. Period.

No, because the ICS Empire, can outdo all of those things on a whim. Like I said, very few people have actually taken a good long look at what the figures in the ICS impy. You know that 900km Death Star? Well, it was actually a rather small project, construction-wise.

Ok, it must have been a bit to long since I look through ICS, but how can ICS Empire out do push the big red button and bye bye galaxy stuff?

The Empire uses THAT.

[l33telboi]

I don't see how a mini-supernova destroying an unknown number of unshielded Forerunner Dreadnoughts is that big a deal. Or is there something I forgot in the ICS about standard armor being that powerful *looks to Zhan Trilogy with shield SD being damage by star*

Hey, I'm well aware that the picture the ICS paints is one drastically different then every single other EU or non-EU source, but you did say we should use the ICS for this debate. And according to the ICS an SSD could sit at the center of that explosion and wouldn't even feel it. Similarly, a few second broadside from the ship would be just as energetic as that mini-supernova, only a lot more focused.

Ok, it must have been a bit to long since I look through ICS, but how can ICS Empire out do push the big red button and bye bye galaxy stuff?

They've never constructed a Halo-system, no. But in terms of power production and industrial capacity, the ICS GE is far above the Forerunners.

And the Empire can out build the Forerunner since when? The Forerunner could field tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of Dreadnoughts and still build The Ark, Halo Array and maybe 7 true Shield Worlds in a few years without the Flood and the rouge AI finding out about it for sometime.

And the ICS GE can build billions of ISD sized ships within a year, plus stuff like the 900 km diameter DSII without any real effort at all.

[Kane Starkiller]

I would be very interested in some pointers as to which ICS publications and which pages state that SSD has enough firepower to destroy a planet with one second burst or that the Empire can build billion ISDs per year or that Death Star is a small project.

(Although the fact that DS2 construction was a successfully kept secret until Emperor deliberately released the information does demonstrate that it's construction didn't consume the majority of Imperial resources.)

[Mike DiCenso]

I'am afraid I have to agree with Kane here. I know of nowhere in all of the ICS books, specifically the Saxton-authored ones where an SSD's firepower can be equated to such a high power level. Even the TF battleship's power generation figures don't allow for such a thing.
-Mike

[l33telboi]

I would be very interested in some pointers as to which ICS publications and which pages state that SSD has enough firepower to destroy a planet with one second burst

Anyone of those written by Saxton, of course. It gives us the reactor output of vessels, shows us that it scales with size, and that almost all of that can be channeled into the weapons. Scaling from the Venator, and accounting for the hangars, you'll get an 19km SSD capable of turning a planet into an asteroid field, whether it will ever reform into a new planet is only a matter of how long the bombardment keeps up and the inefficiencies in question.

In terms of specifics; a Venator has a reactor output of a little over 800 teratons per second (IIRC). An SSD is about 10,000 times more volumous. That's an output in the e28W range, bare minimum because the hangars weren't taken into account, and neither the 'bigger bang for the buck' effect you tend to get when creating larger stuff when compared to smaller stuff. So a more likely figure being e29W or e30W. The minimum energy required to overcome gravitational binding energy is in the e32J range. Which means that the planet pretty much becomes an asteroid field with a short bombardment, and never again reforms with a longer bombardment.

Of course, no author is ever going to follow that logic, since it’s rather absurd. I mean, how would things like the Eclipse-class and their superlasers fit into all this? What we get is stuff like this instead, a ‘rain’ of sub-kiloton shots.

And it began to rain.

It didn't rain water. It rained columns of destructive energy, massed fire from turbolaser batteries far overhead, brilliant needles of light that poured into the jungle all around the kill zone.

The turbolaser blasts tore through vegetation, through everything beneath it. Blasts hitting trees detonated them in clouds of smoke. Beams hitting ponds and creeks and stagnant water sent up clouds of superheated steam. Beams flashed down through those clouds, but the manipulators of voids couldn't see them coming, couldn't maneuver the voids into place in time.

Jaina sat transfixed. This was orbital bombardment, what the Empire's Star Destroyers had been built to do, what no Star Destroyer under the command of the New Republic had ever done. Jaina had heard about it, but it was just history, just some old-timey thing that no one ever had to worry about.

And now she was seeing it. Lusankya was finally fulfilling the purpose for which she had been built, before Jaina had even been born.

For four minutes, death rained down from overhead, in a circle neatly surrounding the kill zone. Then it stopped, and the rumbles, the screams uttered by bodies of water suddenly superheated, the bellows of distant rakamats meeting their doom, all died away.

Jaina jumped as her comlink crackled back into life. "Ground forces," Wedge said, "commence mop-up."

or that the Empire can build billion ISDs per year or that Death Star is a small project.

I believe that's actually in one of the ITWs, I tend to bunch them in with the Saxton ICS books because they share a common author as well as what some seem to call 'logic'.

(Although the fact that DS2 construction was a successfully kept secret until Emperor deliberately released the information does demonstrate that it's construction didn't consume the majority of Imperial resources.)

Speaking outside the context of this thread for a moment; it's shown that the DS1 was a pretty hefty strain on the Empire, requiring re-tooling of their industry and re-allocation of major resources just to make it happen, as well as selling entire worlds away for slave labor. And even then it required Wookie voodoo or else the project would've taken hundreds of years to finish. Ergo, the DS2 must've been built by some radically different method, or perhaps with some new form of technology.

[User1354]

Agh, been way to long since I read through a lot of these books.
Over at SBC it was seen as a crubstomp from the start even with ICS, and that Forerunner shields were so powerful DS SL just bounce off into deep space. I like that version better.

On SSD firepower I went over it, basing firepower at 50 Petatons fo TL and 75 for HTL because of that CIS ship blowing away a 1000 km ice moon and came up with 101 volley from an SSD to reach 69 Zettatons.

[l33telboi]

Over at SBC it was seen as a crubstomp from the start even with ICS,

Very few people on SB know what figures the ICS presents. Most people still think that an ISD can fire about 200 gigatons or so, based on the quote in regards to the Acclamator.

On a slightly unrelated note, I think the ICS might be the only publication from which fanboys usually try to downplay the stated figures, because they realize just how outlandish the real figures in it are.

On SSD firepower I went over it, basing firepower at 50 Petatons fo TL and 75 for HTL because of that CIS ship blowing away a 1000 km ice moon and came up with 101 volley from an SSD to reach 69 Zettatons.

A normal ISD would have a reactor output in either the double- or single-digit petatons per second. The specifics would again depend on how we deal with the hangars on the Venator in relation to scaling. An SSD would be far in excess of this.