The "Outrageous Okona" Falsehood

[Kane Starkiller]

You, Kane Starkiller, are not only an idiot, but you are lazy, stupid and uneducated. Or you only pretend to be a lazy, stupid and uneducated idiot.

This from a person who thinks his ramblings below explain my simple questions.

If the navigation shield works for example with gravity or is able to curve space in another way, the power of a laser, that is not absorbed by the shield, but deflected, is irrelevant. Deflect means to bend down or turn aside, especially from a straight course or fixed direction. It doesn't mean to absorb energy.
A flight path of a laser - regardless of its power - is bend by a gravitational source always in the same way and magnitude. The cause of that is the curvature of space and time which is what we sense as gravitation. A laser - regardless of its power - is always following the geodesics in space-time. Thats why only a certain amount of energy is needed to curve space-time but the power of the laser is irrelevant.

So what if it is deflected? Knight's shield also deflects arrows and knives and swords. It doesn't absorb them. Does that mean it doesn't have to handle the momentum? Of course not. Secondly assume that knight's shield is immune to metal attack and someone fires a canonball while you are holding the shield in your hand. The shield will survive but the blow will shatter every bone in your body.
Now do you understand or was that to "stupid and lazy" for you?

A further question could be, why phaser and other Star Trek weapons are able to hit a ship and are not deflected the same way. We know from these weapons that they have some weird characteristics. For example can we observe that they have different speeds. Sometimes they are clearly slower than light, other times we see how they are faster than light and are fired even at warp speed. Alone that ability indicates that such weapons don't operate like normal electromagnetic radiation, which always is propagating with light speed. It could be that they aren't affected by gravity so much as electromagnetic radiation or don't follow the geodesics in space-time like electromagnetic radiation. After all, the heavy space-time distortions of the warp drive don't effect the path of these weapons.

Uuuuuh phasers are "weird"! Well that sure explains everything doesn't it!! And you call me uneducated.
Let me explain it to you simply. Gravity affects mass. Photons have no mass thus it takes an extraordinarily strong gravity field to affect it. But any gravitational field strong enough to affect MASLESS particles will have no trouble with the ones with mass. Therefore phasers would be effortlesly deflected no matter how "weird" they are.
What about photon torpedoes? A big matter-antimatter explosion that releases pions and ...wait for it...light. How are they dangerous to ships?

If you don't bring forward a valid argument the next time or are showing that you have neither read that thread nor the sides to which I have provided a link, I won't answer you anymore.

It is clear that you are in over your head and have no inkling about the concepts you are discussing. So I would suggest that instead of namecalling me you sit down and read some physics books. You need them badly.

Ok, so you're gonna ignore how the only reason they even needed to bother with that "new kind of shield" was because A) The ship was already damaged, and B) being operated by an inexperienced skeleton Crew. You're also going to ASSUME it was only for "a few" minutes, though there's no definite way to measure jsut how long it lasted.

The only one ignoring is you. My point that Borg ship which was superior to Enterprise couldn't follow them in. What does crew have to do with how strong your shields are? You just flip the "on" switch. And they were there for a limited period of time before their shields started failing. Ergo they are not IMMUNE. It is also irrelevant that they took shots from the Borg since their shields are supposedly IMMUNE to light so it doesn't matter whether they are at 100% or 1%.

Yer also gonna ignore how on another occasion, they hid from the borg near the sun long before the invention of the Metaphasic Shield and did so for a good bit longer than a few minutes. Knowing that Federation Sensors alone can sense ships hours in advance(So one can reasonably expect Borg sensors to be at least as reliable if not moreso), they would have had to stay near the sun until the Borg they were hiding from were well beyond Sensor range.

What episode was that?

And while we're at it let's ignore how even an old Klingon Bird of Prey and several Dominion ships were able to dance around each other jsut above the surface of a sun.

Oh yes. Here is an excerpt from Redemprion:

WORF
Shields failing... outer hull
temperature exceeding design
limits...

Gee I thought they were IMMUNE to this pesky light.

Hell, the only thing that's perplexing here is why the Sun is such a problem for the Borg. The demands of Plot I guess.

Riiiiight.

[Who is like God arbour]

No answer

If the navigation shield works for example with gravity or is able to curve space in another way, the power of a laser, that is not absorbed by the shield, but deflected, is irrelevant. Deflect means to bend down or turn aside, especially from a straight course or fixed direction. It doesn't mean to absorb energy.
A flight path of a laser - regardless of its power - is bend by a gravitational source always in the same way and magnitude. The cause of that is the curvature of space and time which is what we sense as gravitation. A laser - regardless of its power - is always following the geodesics in space-time. Thats why only a certain amount of energy is needed to curve space-time but the power of the laser is irrelevant.

So what if it is deflected? Knight's shield also deflects arrows and knives and swords. It doesn't absorb them. Does that mean it doesn't have to handle the momentum? Of course not. Secondly assume that knight's shield is immune to metal attack and someone fires a canonball while you are holding the shield in your hand. The shield will survive but the blow will shatter every bone in your body.
Now do you understand or was that to "stupid and lazy" for you?

He is comparing space-time curvature with a knight's shield.
That stupidy is speaking for itself.

[Praeothmin]

W.I.L.G.A., let me try to explain in the simplest possible way.

Your analogy with the sticks is flawed, and this is why:
Picard is a Starship Captain.
You don't become one if you have no darn clue about the capabilities of your ship.
You are used to working with a crew that, when faced with a superior opponent, tells you about it.
Your tactical officer only stated that the vessel had locked lasers (a less advanced weapon), and didn't sound worried the least bit when the order of lowering shields was given (while he did indicate his disagreement with not raising shields in Nemesis).

As I said, the E-D's sensors are quite capable in determining an opponent's power generation capabilities, so in your analogy, it would be like this:

The Captain sees that the enemy is smaller, and they are in an AT-ST.
Worf: Captain, they are aiming sticks at us, with their hands.

Picard: What? Don't they realize that sticks thrown that way can never affect us?
That no sticks ever fired by hands can affect us?
Do you detect another type of weapon locked on us?

Worf: No sir, only sticks (lasers), and no bigger than hand sized (so no photon torpedo, plasma torpedo, or even Turbolaser).


You see W.I.L.G.A., this analogy here would be a lot more accurate then yours.
They only detected lasers, nothing else.
Worf didn't say they were powerful, or a threat.
He didn't even advise caution when the order to drop the shields came, which he normally does.

Which is why I think that in this case, the lasers not being able to damage the E-D had more to do with their weak power, then the nature of the weapon.

Kane Starkiller wrote:

He has also specifically ordered Enterprise NOT to raise shields in Nemesis so as to not appear aggressive. He is careless.

I need to disagree with this, at least in this particular instance.
He was not careless, he was a diplomat, and had been offered the chance to talk peace with the Romulans. He didn't feel that threatened, and didn't want any gesture posed to be perceived as aggressive, and start an unnecessary fight.

Kane Starkiller wrote:

What can I say. This still doesn't change the fact that to interpret his his statement as all inclusive is ridiculous.

Agreed!

W.I.L.G.A. wrote:

He is comparing space-time curvature with a knight's shield.
That stupidy is speaking for itself.

Well, although I do not think his analogy correct, it is no more flawed then your previous analogy in response to my post, and I don't think calling him names because you disagree is warranted.

If you want to start calling people names, please move your posts to a forum that tolerates this.

*sorry, changed my "do think it's warranted" to "don't think it's warranted"...*

[Kane Starkiller]

He is comparing space-time curvature with a knight's shield.
That stupidy is speaking for itself.

Absolutely amazing. You are so ignorant of even the most basic things like momentum transfer and yet so arrogant. I was making an analogy. For the purpose of momentum transfer it doesn't matter whether you are holding a metal shield or some kind of gravity projector. If you change the momentum of an object by stopping it or redirecting it then the momentum is transfered to the projector and to your hand.
See for example Gravitational slingshot effect where the mass of the planet is used to speed up a vessel. The probe gains momentum but AT THE EXPENSE OF THE PLANET:

Consider momentum first. Any spacecraft-planet interaction (takeoff, landing, crash, flyby) conserves momentum, when the planet's velocity-change is equal to that of the spacecraft multiplied by (spacecraft mass)/(planet mass).

This mass ratio involves typically well over 20 powers of ten, and therefore to 20 or more figures, the planet's velocity is unchanged.

So the spacecraft's speed may change by several km/sec while a typical planetary speed-change is an atom-width per year. No wonder that Jupiter is unaffected by a flyby!

Notice the bolded part. As you can see the conservation of momentum ALWAYS applies. Even Jupiter gets slowed down by a tiny fraction by small probes. It doesn't matter whether it's knight's shield or gravity field:
CONSERVATION OF MOMENTUM IS A FUNDAMENTAL PHYSICAL LAW.

A physical law that is taught in HIGH SCHOOL I might add. And yet you obviously know nothing about it. And yet you presume to speak about gravitational lenses and space-time geodesic. And to top it all off you start namecalling me when I point out these highschool level mistakes of yours.
The sad thing is you have no idea what fool you are making out of yourself.

[Jedi Master Spock]

I will point out for the moment that, while momentum is transferred to the source of a gravity well in a deflection exchange, the momentum imparted by deflecting a beam around an object (as happens in most gravitational lensing situations, in which light is deflected a small fraction of a degree) is quite small comparatively, and the E-D has quite good inertial compensation on-board.

That said... momentum is still transferred. And - more importantly - rudeness is not to be tolerated here, no matter how right you feel you are. Please don't repeat that behavior.

[Who is like God arbour]

I will point out for the moment that, while momentum is transferred to the source of a gravity well in a deflection exchange, the momentum imparted by deflecting a beam around an object (as happens in most gravitational lensing situations, in which light is deflected a small fraction of a degree) is quite small comparatively, and the E-D has quite good inertial compensation on-board.

That said... momentum is still transferred.

There is no direct conection from the Enterprise to the gravitational lense, that could transfer momentum, if the Enterprise is merely shooting a graviton beam and that is creating, far away from the Enterprise, at its focus, a space-time distortion which deflect the laser from its path to the Enterprise to a path on which it will miss the Enterprise.

• 

[Who is like God arbour]

- deleted -

[Kane Starkiller]

There is no direct conection from the Enterprise to the gravitational lense, that could transfer momentum, if the Enterprise is merely shooting a graviton beam and that is creating, far away from the Enterprise, at its focus, a space-time distortion which deflect the laser from its path to the Enterprise to a path on which it will miss the Enterprise.

And how exactly does it do this? Gravitons fly from the projector into the vacuum and then just miraculously stop at a predetermined spot to create a "space-time distortion". Secondly this STILL wouldn't make Enterprise invulnerable to light since sufficiently strong light source would create so much momentum and simply MOVED the "space-time distortion" out of the way and hit Enterprise anyway.
Like I said conservation of momentum is a fundamental law and there is no going around it.

[Who is like God arbour]

W.I.L.G.A., let me try to explain in the simplest possible way.

Your analogy with the sticks is flawed, and this is why:
Picard is a Starship Captain.
You don't become one if you have no darn clue about the capabilities of your ship.
You are used to working with a crew that, when faced with a superior opponent, tells you about it.
Your tactical officer only stated that the vessel had locked lasers (a less advanced weapon), and didn't sound worried the least bit when the order of lowering shields was given (while he did indicate his disagreement with not raising shields in Nemesis).

As I said, the E-D's sensors are quite capable in determining an opponent's power generation capabilities, so in your analogy, it would be like this:

The Captain sees that the enemy is smaller, and they are in an AT-ST.
Worf: Captain, they are aiming sticks at us, with their hands.

Picard: What? Don't they realize that sticks thrown that way can never affect us?
That no sticks ever fired by hands can affect us?
Do you detect another type of weapon locked on us?

Worf: No sir, only sticks (lasers), and no bigger than hand sized (so no photon torpedo, plasma torpedo, or even Turbolaser).


You see W.I.L.G.A., this analogy here would be a lot more accurate then yours.
They only detected lasers, nothing else.
Worf didn't say they were powerful, or a threat.
He didn't even advise caution when the order to drop the shields came, which he normally does.

Which is why I think that in this case, the lasers not being able to damage the E-D had more to do with their weak power, then the nature of the weapon.

That's a little bit disordered. Look again at the dialogue from "The Outrageous Okona":

• • • • Worf:
      "Captain, they are now locking lasers on us."
      
      • Picard:
      "Lasers?"
      
      • Worf:
      "Yes, sir."
      
      • Picard:
      "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?"
      
      • Riker:
      "Regulations do call for yellow alert."
      
      • Picard:
      "Hmm, a very old regulation. Well, make it so Number One. And, reduce speed... drop main shields, as well."
      
      • Riker:
      "May I ask why, sir?"
      
      • Picard:
      "In case we decide to surrender to them, Number One
      
      • [...]
      They could fire 'till their lasers ran dry; they wouldn't hurt the Enterprise."

Worf has only said that they are locking lasers at the Enterprise. He has not said, how strong these were, nor how much energy the reactors of the ship are continuously providing nor if there are any batteries or akkumulators, which could have stored energy to power up its armament. Picard couldn't have known with that information alone, how powerful these lasers could get.

That Worf has not outright said, that this ship means no threat to the Enterprise means nothing.

1. He was not ready with his report when Picard has asked for a confirmation that it are lasers and
2. he does not always say if another ship is a threat to the Enterprise. There are events for example, in which he has outright said that a weapon system is no threat to the Enterprise after analyzing it (Worf in the TNG episode "Attached": "Their weapon systems pose no threat to the Enterprise").

And Picard hasn't asked Worf how powerful these lasers could get and has orderd, without consulting Worf, to drop the main shields.

That Worf hasn't sounded worried the least, when he has reported that they are locking lasers on the Enterprise, can not surprise because the main shield were still up at that moment. And - as you say it - he has known the specifications of that ship.

That Worf has not complained after Picards order could only confirm what Picard has known already: that the lasers aren't a threat to the Enterprise.

But that still doesn't explain why they were no threat to the Enterprise.
It is still possible that Worf has not complained because he has known that the lasers are to weak to be a threat to the Enterprise or that he has known that lasers - regardless how powerfull - couldn't endanger the Enterprise.

But Picard hasn't known, how powerful the lasers could get. The only information he has gotten from Worf was, that there are lasers (- and from the main screen, how the ships looks). He hasn't have more information when he has ordered to drop the shield.

And Picard has not announced that he plans to order to drop the shield. Worf has had no chance to complain about the upcoming order beforehand, if the laser would have been powerful enough to be a threat to the Enterprise.

If Picard orders to drop the main shield and solely trust the navigation shield - without knowing the possible power of the lasers and without consulting with his those who know how powerful these lasers could get, he either has known that lasers - regardless of their power - can't penetrate the navigation shield or he has taken a risk which were absolutely unnecessary because he could have asked, befor giving the order to drop the shield, how powerful these lasers are or if they are powerfull enough that they could endanger the Enterprise.

The dialogue would be like that:

• • • • Worf:
      "Captain, they are now locking lasers on us."
      
      • Picard:
      "Lasers?"
      
      • Worf:
      "Yes, sir."
      
      
      • Picard:
      "How powerfull are they? Any threat to the Enterprise?"
      
      • Worf :
      "No sir, they are no threat to the Enterprise. The lasers have only an energy output of 200 GT."
      
      • Picard:
      "Such weak lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?"
      
      • Riker:
      "Regulations do call for yellow alert."
      
      • Picard:
      "Hmm, a very old regulation. Well, make it so Number One. And, reduce speed... drop main shields, as well."
      
      • Riker:
      "May I ask why, sir?"
      
      • Picard:
      "In case we decide to surrender to them, Number One
      
      • [...]
      They could fire 'till their lasers ran dry; they wouldn't hurt the Enterprise."

OR

• • • • Worf:
      "Captain, they are now locking lasers on us."
      
      • Picard:
      "Lasers?"
      
      • Worf:
      "Yes, sir - but there is no danger for the Enterprise. These lasers are to weak to even penetrate the navigation shield"
      
      • Riker:
      "Regulations do call for yellow alert."
      
      • Picard:
      "Hmm, a very old regulation. Well, make it so Number One. And, reduce speed... drop main shields, as well."
      
      • Riker:
      "May I ask why, sir?"
      
      • Picard:
      "In case we decide to surrender to them, Number One
      
      • [...]
      They could fire 'till their lasers ran dry; they wouldn't hurt the Enterprise."

If the dialogue would have happened like that, I would agree with you at once. But in the dialogue as it is, Picard has neither known how powerful these laser could get nor has he consulted with those who have known that nor has he given those who have known that the opportunity to report that these lasers could be powerfull enough to endanger the Enterprise before he has given his order. He hasn't cared, how powerful the lasers could get.

I don't deny that other interpretations could be possible. But I think that these interpretation is the most plausible.

And consider the following: If the main shield would be indeed able to deflect each laser - regardless of its power - and you know that and you know that Picard knows that, what would be your interpretation then? Would you really argue, that Picard has cared how powerful that laser could get, if you know that the power of the laser would be totally irrelevant?

[Who is like God arbour]

Other possible versions of that dialogue for the case, that the navigation shield is not able to deflect more powerful lasers and the lasers on that ship would be powerful enough:

• • • • Worf:
      "Captain, they are now locking lasers on us."
      
      • Picard:
      "Lasers?"
      
      • Worf:
      "Yes, sir."
      
      • Picard:
      Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?"
      
      
      • Worf:
      Err sir, these lasers have an energy output of over 200 teratons. This is enough to penetrate our navigation shield."

OR

• • • • Worf:
      "Captain, they are now locking lasers on us."
      
      • Picard:
      "Lasers?"
      
      • Worf:
      "Yes, sir."
      
      • Picard:
      "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?"
      
      • Riker:
      "Regulations do call for yellow alert."
      
      • Picard:
      "Hmm, a very old regulation. Well, make it so Number One. And, reduce speed... drop main shields, as well."
      
      
      • Worf:
      Err, sir, These laseres are unusual strong. The navigation shield is not able to withstand so much energy. I strongly recommend that the shields stay activated. Only they are able to withstand so much energy."

OR

• • • • Worf:
      "Captain, they are now locking lasers on us. These are powerfull enough to destroy the Enterprise with one shoot. We should consider to negotiate with them."

[Who is like God arbour]

There is no direct conection from the Enterprise to the gravitational lense, that could transfer momentum, if the Enterprise is merely shooting a graviton beam and that is creating, far away from the Enterprise, at its focus, a space-time distortion which deflect the laser from its path to the Enterprise to a path on which it will miss the Enterprise.

And how exactly does it do this? Gravitons fly from the projector into the vacuum and then just miraculously stop at a predetermined spot to create a "space-time distortion".

The same way, the Death Star is doing that:

• • • 

Fact is, that we don't know how they are curving space-time at all. And I don't insist that they have to do it with graviton beams - although I think that's the most plausible explanation. But already in my first post, in which I have explained my thesis, I have written:

• • "If the navigation shield works for example with gravity or is able to curve space in another way, ..."

But the fact is, that they are able to curve space-time. They are creating artificial gravity and their whole FTL propulsion is based on the curvature of space-time.

Secondly this STILL wouldn't make Enterprise invulnerable to light since sufficiently strong light source would create so much momentum and simply MOVED the "space-time distortion" out of the way and hit Enterprise anyway.
Like I said conservation of momentum is a fundamental law and there is no going around it.

As far as I know, in curved space-time, which is not asymptotically Minkowski space, conservation of momentum, an otherwise fundamental law of nature, isn't defined at all. I have not studied physics. I have it only in my school up to the 13. class. If I'm wrong, correct me.

As I understand it, there is no force affecting the laser beam. In its space-time, the laser is flying unaffected. Only that the space-time is curved, so that the laser is still following the geodesics of the space-time in its Euclidean space. In that space, the total momentum is constant.

[Kane Starkiller]

The same way, the Death Star is doing that:
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s4/W ... thStar.jpg

What do superlaser particles have to do with gravitons? Massless particles moving at light speed? Are you claiming that the superlaser focal point also creates space-time pocket and is immune to lasers? If not then this is a complete Red herring.

As far as I know, in curved space-time, which is not asymptotically Minkowski space, conservation of momentum, an otherwise fundamental law of nature, isn't defined at all. I have not studied physics. I have it only in my school up to the 13. class. If I'm wrong, correct me.

As I understand it, there is no force affecting the laser beam. In its space-time, the laser is flying unaffected. Only that the space-time is curved, so that the laser is still following the geodesics of the space-time in its Euclidean space. In that space, the total momentum is constant.

Again you are posting links without any understanding of the concepts. Curved space time is caused by gravitational field. Every mass curves space time including planets. WE are living in a curved space time by virtue of being on Earth. I don't know about you but it seems to me that conservation of momentum still applies. The only difference between curved space time on Earth and black hole is the strength.
Naturally the links you provided don't say a word about any violations of momentum conservation.

I really must urge you to stop writing about concepts you so obviously are not familiar with.

[Who is like God arbour]

The same way, the Death Star is doing that:

• • 

What do superlaser particles have to do with gravitons? Massless particles moving at light speed? Are you claiming that the superlaser focal point also creates space-time pocket and is immune to lasers? If not then this is a complete Red herring.

I haven't claimed anything. That was an example for unexplainable behaviour of beams, that are just miraculously stopping at a predetermined spot. If you can explain the behaviour of that example, you can expect from me, that I explain you, how a beam of gravitons, that is focused at one point, is stopping at that point.

But the fact, that neither you nor I (nor probably any other scientist on Earth) are able to explain that unexplainable behaviour doesn't mean, that it is impossible. We have seen, that it is possible.

And it would have been more constructive, if you would have adressed the part of my post, in which I have said more. Every time, you are only nitpicking at insignificant parts of a post, you seem to be unable to find a real flaw in what was said and are only trying to distract from that fact.

If someone gives for example several examples to illustrate the made point, and one example is wrong, that doesn't make the original point invalid. If someone is giving an analogy and that is maybe not exact, that doesn't make the point, that someone is trying to made, invalid. You should try to understand, what someone is trying to say and not nitpicking how it is said.

As far as I know, in curved space-time, which is not asymptotically Minkowski space, conservation of momentum, an otherwise fundamental law of nature, isn't defined at all. I have not studied physics. I have it only in my school up to the 13. class. If I'm wrong, correct me.

As I understand it, there is no force affecting the laser beam. In its space-time, the laser is flying unaffected. Only that the space-time is curved, so that the laser is still following the geodesics of the space-time in its Euclidean space. In that space, the total momentum is constant.

Again you are posting links without any understanding of the concepts. Curved space time is caused by gravitational field. Every mass curves space time including planets. WE are living in a curved space time by virtue of being on Earth. I don't know about you but it seems to me that conservation of momentum still applies. The only difference between curved space time on Earth and black hole is the strength.
Naturally the links you provided don't say a word about any violations of momentum conservation.

I really must urge you to stop writing about concepts you so obviously are not familiar with.

I have not denied, that space is curved in the influence of each mass, regardless how small. But the law of conservation of momentum is a law only for the Euclidean space. That's, as the Minkowski space too, only a theoretical construct to be able to understand the different mechanics. That doesn't mean that they are really two separate spaces or separate dimensions (as parallel-dimensions).

And the fact, that the sides, to which I have linked, aren't outright saying, what I have said, doesn't mean that what I have said is wrong. Excuse me that I'm not able to give you a link to my physic schoolbook. It wouldn't help you because it is written in German.

And if you would have read, what I have written, you would have noticed, that there is no violations of momentum conservation. From the perspective of the laser, it is not bended. It is flying always straight. It is always following the geodesic of the space it is in. That's a straight line.

But the space, it is in, is curved. From inside that space, these space-time curvature is not noticeable. It's only noticeable from outside that curved space. And that only because the laser, that should be straight, seems to be bended.

• • • Outside that curved space doesn't mean, that that space is not curved too. But it has another degree of curvature. The one space is affected by the gravity of a black hole (or another singularity or another artificial mechanism which is able to curve space-time) and the other space is only affected by the gravity of Earth. The light on Earth is also following the curved geodesic of the by the Earth mass curved space-time. But we don't notice it because we are part of that space-time. And the curvature of the space time around Earth is far less strong than the curvature of space-time around a black hole.

[Kane Starkiller]

I haven't claimed anything. That was an example for unexplainable behaviour of beams, that are just miraculously stopping at a predetermined spot. If you can explain the behaviour of that example, you can expect from me, that I explain you, how a beam of gravitons, that is focused at one point, is stopping at that point.


But the fact, that neither you nor I (nor probably any other scientist on Earth) are able to explain that unexplainable behaviour doesn't mean, that it is impossible. We have seen, that it is possible.

Wrong. We haven't SEEN that it is possible. You concocted this half baked theory based on your interpretation of Picard's statement.

And it would have been more constructive, if you would have adressed the part of my post, in which I have said more. Every time, you are only nitpicking at insignificant parts of a post, you seem to be unable to find a real flaw in what was said and are only trying to distract from that fact.

For the love of God your theory is DIRECTLY VIOLATING FUNDAMENTAL PHYSICAL LAWS and you are too uneducated to even see it.
In that is not a "real" flaw I don't know what is.

If someone gives for example several examples to illustrate the made point, and one example is wrong, that doesn't make the original point invalid. If someone is giving an analogy and that is maybe not exact, that doesn't make the point, that someone is trying to made, invalid. You should try to understand, what someone is trying to say and not nitpicking how it is said.

Except your analogy involves a craft from a completely different sf universe. How do Death Star's capabilities serve to prove Federation capabilities?

I have not denied, that space is curved in the influence of each mass, regardless how small. But the law of conservation of momentum is a law only for the Euclidean space. That's, as the Minkowski space too, only a theoretical construct to be able to understand the different mechanics. That doesn't mean that they are really two separate spaces or separate dimensions (as parallel-dimensions).
And the fact, that the sides, to which I have linked, aren't outright saying, what I have said, doesn't mean that what I have said is wrong. Excuse me that I'm not able to give you a link to my physic schoolbook. It wouldn't help you because it is written in German.

Will you provide evidence that conservation of momentum doesn't apply to Minkowski space or what?

And if you would have read, what I have written, you would have noticed, that there is no violations of momentum conservation. From the perspective of the laser, it is not bended. It is flying always straight. It is always following the geodesic of the space it is in. That's a straight line.

Yes from the perspective of a laser. NOT from the perspective of an outside observer. To him it is clear that laser did in fact change it's heading thus there was a change in momentum and it was transferred to the source of the gravity field. Pump enough momentum and you will move the source of the gravity. This is all mind numbingly simple.

[Praeothmin]

OK, W.I.L.G.A., I think it is clear that we will never agree on this.

But I will just state this for the last time:
In ST, lasers evolved to Phasers.
Why?
Who knows for sure...

But if you face a ship that is using older technology, technology that you don't use anymore because you've evolved past it, and you are pretty sure that no ship the size of that old hunk of junk you're facing could even have Phasers as pôwerful as those of the E-D, would you consider its lasers capable of producing the necessary pôwer to pose a threat?

I wouldn't!

So I guess all thatMs left to say is, you interpret the script as you see fit, and I will do the same.
In this case, I range with Kane.
The E-D's deflectors cannot deflect all lasers, no matter the power.
Heck, it didn't deflect the Borg's lasers (they were stated as lasers, and lasers using a visible spectrum of light are still lasers)...