Plan of Dissent [TCW4]

[Mike DiCenso]

I don't think we hear anywhere that there's a shortage of troops or insurgents, is there?
-Mike

[Khas]

Well, not enough to retake the base.

[2046]

Also, this episode features klicks as a distance. Given the foggy nature of the planet, it's unclear if Anakin was actually seeing explosions 12 kilometers distant, but it seems rather unlikely. This would, then, presumably be short klicks, but not as short as the Geonosis example.

Well sir if I may offer my two cents I would contend this starting at about 2:00 is supportive of Klick being kilometer. In it a clonetrooper informs the Clone commander that they've been maintaning "this pace for twelve hours now" with the implication they haven't been harried by enemy forces since the one Anakin fought off except for fending of a pair of glowing, flight capable manta rays. I admit to being ignorant of how quickly a fully weighted down soldier can march through enemy territory but I would imagine at least some miles would have been traversed after half a day of grinding and they were still some distance from the capitol by all accounts.

Good point. At that point they were traversing rough terrain prior to hitting the main road, which per the hologram (assuming some semblance of accuracy) would have taken them fairly quickly to the capital, if they were not attacked. But 12 hours at even rough terrain walking speed should've gotten them there, one would think, if they were actually 12 klicks from Obi-Wan who was opposite the capital when they landed.

It's worth noting, though, that the initial briefing hologram in "Darkness" seemed to suggest a less-than-180-degree spread between Anakin's north team and Obi-Wan's south team . . . more like 45-90 degrees . . . but generally speaking this example could indeed be used to show a more kilometer-esque klick.

[Mike DiCenso]

Speaking of holograms, what's up with the funky "pixelated" holograms in this episode? Come to think of it, why in nearly every communication we've seen throughout the TCW are the relying so heavily on the holocom method, when we rarely saw it in use throughout most of the movies, except for extremely important communications. In a battlefield situation, that would cause more potential problems what with the bright light giving away your position to the enemy, and what's more the bandwidth required to send a decent quality image, especially through jamming.
-Mike

[2046]

Given how crappy the holos are, I don't know that the bandwidth is that much higher than an HD 2-D image. And there might be some other benefits, like security encoded in the transmissions at the expense of image quality, the transmission method, et cetera.

But, a thought . . . when did we ever see 2-D transmissions in use? Ship to shore in the beginning of TPM, ship to shore when Yoda's returning to Coruscant in RotS, intraship in ESB . . . when else? Are all long-range communications holo-based by default? I can't think of any long-range 2-D examples.

[Mr. Oragahn]

The exotic projectile fired by the ship that clone had an issue to ride sort of disintegrated the hangar door in a way similar to Trek's NDF (9:50 in the vid), although with greater obvious thermal effects and very little blast at all. More like what I'd picture from 40K's melta guns in fact, since the door more or less melted into glowing gouts. It's a chain reaction weapon. Quite impressive ! Not yield wise, but technologically. There are obvious advantages to be with them, since blasts do represent an issue.
Which is kinda interesting, regarding the warheads. I haven't watched any Clone Wars stuff in a while. Did these warheads get described as nuclear or particularly explosive? Or could they be 100 megatonnes of exotic stuff that creates little blast and dissolves matter a lot?

Obviously those exotic projectiles, stopped by ray shields, weren't used to destroy the walls around the shield wall, so there's a chance that the structure around that hangar section was reinforced. Or the bulkheads were also shielded but we couldn't see that as the shield also worked through matter, or reinforced matter, or something.

Also, we get those fighters' cockpit shields getting weakened by tame droid blaster fire?

Mmm, I watched "Darkness on Umbara", and for once in many years, here's a ground battle that didn't turn out to umbarass me.
It was quite cool to watch. The umbarine cannons were cool as hell.

[Mike DiCenso]

Given how crappy the holos are, I don't know that the bandwidth is that much higher than an HD 2-D image. And there might be some other benefits, like security encoded in the transmissions at the expense of image quality, the transmission method, et cetera.

But, a thought . . . when did we ever see 2-D transmissions in use? Ship to shore in the beginning of TPM, ship to shore when Yoda's returning to Coruscant in RotS, intraship in ESB . . . when else? Are all long-range communications holo-based by default? I can't think of any long-range 2-D examples.

- We have regular audio transmissions in ANH between the Yavin Rebel base and the starfighters. We see no holographic transmissions on the Death Star for anything, not even the major tactical displays. The only holographic anything is the all-important message from princess Leia to Obi-Wan Kenobi asking him for help. The implication is that holograms are used for very important messages, like diplomatic work. No indication is made at this point that transmission is even possible.

- We have a mix of audio, 2-D, and holographic in TESB. The Rebels on Hoth communicate all in audio, and no holographic displays are used for tactical purposes by them. The Empire appears to have a higher budget; at first the Imperial probe droid transmits only in that 2-D format. Later, we see Vader communicating via 2-D screen to the soon to be very dead Admiral Ozzel. Still further on, General Veers communicates with Vader via a small holographic display. No way to know if this is normal for all AT-STs or if Veers has a really pimped out ride. Much later on in the asteroid field scenes, Vader communicates with the ISD captains via hologram. Up until this point, all communications appear to be signaled via audio. Vader makes use of a very elaborate holographic communications chamber to speak with Palpatine/Sidious. The implication for it's use is still for important calls only. The rest of the movie has not got a single holographic or 2-D display communication, just some limited audio.

- In RoTJ, we go back to holographic minimalism; the only hologram we see is not for communications, but to display for the Rebels the Death Star attack plan. All communications or system displays are made strictly via 2-D or audio. So I guess Admiral Ackbar got to have a really pimped out ride on Home One...

So, if TCW and the PT are showing commonplace holographic communications, regardless. even between grunt-level troops, what happened?
-Mike

[2046]

The exotic projectile fired by the ship that clone had an issue to ride sort of disintegrated the hangar door in a way similar to Trek's NDF (9:50 in the vid), although with greater obvious thermal effects and very little blast at all.

Yeah, I'd noticed that oddity. The general suggestion is that Umbaran tech is superior, which seems generally true. For instance, in one of the episodes they use some sort of lightning round that zaps clones, but in my first viewing I thought clones were being vaporized. In HD and looking more closely that doesn't seem to be so, but there is at least the possibility that Umbaran tech could allow for such given the fighter weapon effects.

Or could they be 100 megatonnes of exotic stuff that creates little blast and dissolves matter a lot?

Their blast and thermal effects were sub-kiloton, so unless they are learned to be hard radiation weapons (which doesn't appear to be the case) or some esoteric technobabble disintegrator (which also doesn't appear to be the case, given that the ground seemed no more affected than by a regular sub-kiloton missile), I don't see any way to make them 100MT.

I mean, maybe they could be 100MT neutrino weapons or blows-a-small-bit-in-realspace-but-really-kicks-hyperspace's-ass, but such ideas strike me as really silly.

Obviously those exotic projectiles, stopped by ray shields, weren't used to destroy the walls around the shield wall, so there's a chance that the structure around that hangar section was reinforced. Or the bulkheads were also shielded but we couldn't see that as the shield also worked through matter, or reinforced matter, or something.

They basically shielded the big proverbial cargo bay roll door while leaving the man-door beside it open, and not even locked, nor even with a closed door so far as I recall.

But was Hardcase's pointy thing really a missile/projectile, or the Umbaran fuel tank? I'm not clear on that yet.

here's a ground battle that didn't turn out to umbarass me.

Typo or not, that's a classic line.

[2046]

at first the Imperial probe droid transmits only in that 2-D format.

Bingo, that disproves my hypothesis of long-range comm being exclusively holo-based.

So, if TCW and the PT are showing commonplace holographic communications, regardless. even between grunt-level troops, what happened?
-Mike

The Order 66 scene is stuck in the brain of many, I imagine.

[Mike DiCenso]

What's funny is that it suggests the Empire cutting back on things... perhaps doing everything possible to scrape up the credits to pay for ISDs, SSDs, and Death Stars?
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

So, if TCW and the PT are showing commonplace holographic communications, regardless. even between grunt-level troops, what happened?
-Mike

3D sickness? Holohatred?

In the EU, WEG's guide for the Empire and the Death Star explained how the whole holonetwork's transceivers and relays were cannibalized for the imperial warships.
Now, holodevices are so widespread and found in so many different sizes that it makes no sense for such a massive disappearance, unless some kind of discovery in jamming systems proved to be more effective against the structure of holodata than mere 2D video information, which is quite absurd since 3D holos are just about more information in order to provide all information pertaining to the third dimension.
Basically, just more gibberish once turned into a file text.

The only issue being the weight of the data stream.
Quite like a 1080 x 1080 x 1080 feed. Minus all the non existent data that's culled since not scooped by the original holosensors : the holodata of a man doesn't need to carry any information about what's beneath the skin, hairs and clothes, so not even layer of data would need to carry colour/alpha information beyond "don't display anything at {X;Y;Z}.
Holograms aren't precise cross sections of the objects and subjects seen. Basically they show what holosensors have seen, and thus, when seeing a sphere or a cube, don't obtain information about what's inside the sphere or the cube if it's not transparent.
It's like some layers in the third dimension containing a silhouette that grows and then shrinks as you get near the other edge of holo-volume's fulcrum.

Frankly, even in SW, that sounds like a really cheap excuse, really.
Not to say that the quality of holos is top notch to begin with.
Could it be a question of power?
That sounds silly. Ships like Obi-Wan's fighter don't even come with an option to produce only 2D video material when intended for long range comms.

The change would seem to be caused by an idea which has grown into a radical reduction of the use of holotech and even its overall quality.

Perhaps the deep effect of an ideological hiccup, triggering a dusk on some given technologies, and perhaps a new taste for minimalism.

Mind you, it's just as weird as having holo-transmission be pirated when they should, in theory and thanks to quantum properties, be fully encrypted and completely sealed.

Or, there was like one big corporate entity that made most of the tech, and this one ran into problems or got bought by some company indirectly owned by the Empire or something, and perhaps some equivalent to patents were forcefully "acquired" and therefore outlawed the production of holosystems unless certain absurd commercial rules were dully respected.

Since I don't think power is the problem, those two explanations would be my solutions, since I can't find anything else.
It's either ideological, or industrial/commercial.

On a side note, did we get to see clues as to why missiles would get out fashion in SW? I recall an interview with GL saying that it would get explained at some point in his show.
Or was it for ROTS?
...

[Mike DiCenso]

On a side note, did we get to see clues as to why missiles would get out fashion in SW? I recall an interview with GL saying that it would get explained at some point in his show.
Or was it for ROTS?

In neither the PT nor TCW do we get see much in the way of missiles being used, even in large-scale ship-to-ship combat. Not anywhere near what's described in the EU literature, anyway. As far as I know, AoTC is the most missile intensive combat seen so far in TV or movie SW.
-Mike

[Lucky]

From my tweets (@STvSW):

"Plan of Dissent"[TCW4] features a statement that Umbaran long-range missiles being used against ground forces are 100 megatons ...
... but we see three hit and they are sub-kiloton. What gives? Well, the clone saying it was clearly exaggerating because Krell wanted ...
... clones to march into them. But at least it's acknowledged that (a) megaton is a unit of yield for SW and (b) 100's considered big.

"L33telboi": diff measure of explosive tons, like how "klicks" didn't mean km on Geonosis. Foes say variable yields. http://bit.ly/rr6pvc ... foes also threaten ban. Such is life at Spacebattles. For the record, tho, I go with exaggeration, though L33t has precedent behind him

How is this any more Earth shattering then episode 401 or 402 where the interplanetary sensors on Dac are said to be sonar and radar?

Episode 404 where there's an earthquake and it is implied that thousands is the majority of those who live on that planet, but is a major enough event that the Republic sends aid,

or when it is shown the Republic lacks a proper translation for the language, and that only one translator droid was sent.

Or that the natives are stone age peoples who have just been given tach, and barely know how to use it?

[Mr. Oragahn]

lol, Lucas seems really willing to piss EU fans as much as possible. I'm pretty sure that the EU has repeatedly presented Dac as a good sidekick to Alderaan and all that by the time of the Old Republic a few decades before the Clone Wars.

[Lucky]

lol, Lucas seems really willing to piss EU fans as much as possible. I'm pretty sure that the EU has repeatedly presented Dac as a good sidekick to Alderaan and all that by the time of the Old Republic a few decades before the Clone Wars.

I made a mistake. 404 has a force using Gungan uses a magic necklace to mind control Boss Lyonie, and shows Jar Jar is actually one of the smartest characters in the series.

405 is the one with the earthquake.