My recently started blog - need suggestions

[Mike DiCenso]

No problem. Do you understand the scaling methodology?
-Mike

[Picard]

More or less. There was lot scaling when I was doing Death Star size estimates - I got 125 to 245 kiloton medium turbolasers from that scene.

[Picard]

http://picard578.blogspot.com/2010/08/t ... power.html

What you think?

[Mike DiCenso]

Bad assumption in scaling on the first one as it greatly overestimates the size of the asteroids relative to the ISD shooting them. There is little to no way to know how close those asteroids are. We can judge how far the "camera" is from the ISD using various photometric trigonometry techniques, but we really have no way of knowing where between the ISD and camera the asteroids are. Only the turbolasers themselves give us a clue since all throughout the movies as well as the TCW, TL bolts do not widen as they go. Thus following the TLs back to their source on the sidewall of the ISD's trench can help us scale the TL bolts used here, then in turn we can find the approximate length and width of the asteroids, and then the volume. The trenchwall height of 80 meters you give is also wrong. It should measure no more than 25 meters tall for a 1,600 meter ISD.
-Mike

[Picard]

I measured trench height by using screenshots from RotJ, where we see ISD from side.

[Mike DiCenso]

What scene is that? Most of the shots show them from various angles, but not in a true side profile view. Do you have screencaps? There is just no way an ISD sidewall trench is that tall. Here are some side view pics of the starboard trench:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/given/rb/sd2-gun4.gif

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/given/rb/sd2-gun3.gif

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/given/rb/sd2-gun1.gif

The notch portion of the trench is not even 1/5th of the average of the visible hull and superstructure height. Then there is this side view profile pic of the ISD II model used in the movies:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/File:Isdsideview.jpg

In this view the overall length and height of the ISD is visible, and the tallest portion of the trench features is less than 12.5 times shorter than the overall height of the ISD from keel to bridge shield generator globe top. With a rough maximum overall height of 450 meters, the thickest trench notch feature cannot be more than 36 meters tall. There is no way an ISD trench wall is 80 meters.
-Mike

[Picard]

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/5120/rotjmq009.jpg

Not true sidewiev, but I think that trench is about 50-70 meters tall. It might be that I got it wrong due to perspective.

EDIT: I found better sidewiev on Wong's page.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... n/isd3.jpg

Trench is 14.5 meters tall normal or 23 meters at widest part.

[Picard]

Two updates:

http://picard578.blogspot.com/2010/08/u ... yield.html

http://picard578.blogspot.com/2010/08/t ... power.html

[Mr. Oragahn]

Two updates:

http://picard578.blogspot.com/2010/08/u ... yield.html

http://picard578.blogspot.com/2010/08/t ... power.html

That torpedo yield estimation just sounds ridiculous. But it seems to be in line with your warp power estimation. I'd just wish you'd apply to Star Wars the same enthusiasm you apply to Trek for high numbers.

Besides, how many people have read your blog thus far?

[Lucky]

Two updates:

http://picard578.blogspot.com/2010/08/u ... yield.html

You are going to want to show what you mean by super-deuterium. From reading thins thread I seem to recall you meaning deuterium in a solid form that exists in the real world when you say super-deuterium, but you need to make it clear what you mean in the article. You are talking about a Sci-Fi setting, and for all the reader may know there is something called superdeuterium in the setting.

http://picard578.blogspot.com/2010/08/t ... power.html

G-canon running counter to the ICS.^_^

[Mike DiCenso]

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/5120/rotjmq009.jpg

Not true sidewiev, but I think that trench is about 50-70 meters tall. It might be that I got it wrong due to perspective.

EDIT: I found better sidewiev on Wong's page.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... n/isd3.jpg

Trench is 14.5 meters tall normal or 23 meters at widest part.

The Wookiepedia ISD sideview is better still than that one. Also the perspective changes everything Also at what point did you scale the TL bolt in it's flight from the gun that fired it in the trench notch to the asteroid? Getting the bolt when it first appears against the trench is critical as the smaller it is, the closer it is, and therefore a more accurate scaling.
-Mike

[Picard]

For trench scaling, I scaled bolt at closest point to trench I was able to find.

About 12 teraton torpedo yields, I done that calculation beacouse of "Die is Cast", which actually gives petaton-level yield, if we take dialogue literally. Link is here. I was interested how large yield might be scientifically achieveable for photon torpedoes - if you read "Episode evidence" section, you will see that anti-ship torpedoes are around 21.5 gigatons (original calculation gave 2.2 gigatons, but I did not include some very important things in my calculation so it was off by HUGE margin). Given that phasers are rated at gigatons per second, and that outdated D-5 was able to pull off low-gigaton shots, it is actually reasonable - much more reasonable than 2.2 gigaton estimate which would mean that phaser is more powerful in one second than photon torpedo. I am not big fan of theory that phasers operate primarly by NDF, beacouse phasers are often - too often - used against shielded ships and objects. However, I have no idea how large amount of phaser-versus-solid object is attributed by NDF, but shipboard "disruptors" in ST Generations seemed to be pure DEW.

In end I scrapped super-deuterium estimations in favour of episode evidence, beacouse, not only episode evidence is more canon than such "what if" guessing (that guessing is not canon at all but is really fun), but we never see such yields in ship-to-ship or asteroid destruction events (it would be logical that asteroid destruction is done by ship-to-ship torpedoes, as asteroids are relatively small and mostly mobile objects).

And I do have *some* enthusiasm for large numbers, but I won't artificially produce large number if on-screen/dialogue/novelization/script evidence does not support it or even contradict it.

For super-deuterium, I am not sure, but I think? I gave link in that post. If I did not, I will have to include it.


EDIT: I did not include link originally, but I did update both "UFP photon torpedo yield" and "Warp core" pages in order to include that link.

[Mr. Oragahn]

You do realize that TDiC has been argued to death, that your claims are nothing new - and certainly not even exhaustive enough to be considered a decent addition to the old debate - and that no one will ever accept teraton to petaton yields for torpedoes?

Hoping you won't take offense from what is to follow, tell me something. Is the purpose of your blog to be treated seriously?

[Picard]

I just wanted to present canon evidence and analyze it. Someone might not like that, but I don't really care. About Die is Cast, weapons are almost certainly in petaton range - fleet was stated to be able to destroy "planet's crust in one hour and mantle in five". If we assume pure DEW, petaton-range yields must be present. Althought I will include NDF theory - actually, when I think about episode again, NDF/chain reaction is only thing that can explain both dialogue AND visuals.

[Lucky]

I just wanted to present canon evidence and analyze it. Someone might not like that, but I don't really care. About Die is Cast, weapons are almost certainly in petaton range - fleet was stated to be able to destroy "planet's crust in one hour and mantle in five". If we assume pure DEW, petaton-range yields must be present. Althought I will include NDF theory - actually, when I think about episode again, NDF/chain reaction is only thing that can explain both dialogue AND visuals.

There are a lot of ways to rationalize what is said to happen in TDIC.

One such way is to assume the bombardment we see went on for longer then we are shown.

Another is to assume they used weapons like gravimetric warheads in their torpedos.