Re: Another Blow to Hypermatter Fuel's Existence?

[Khas]

I once read a webcomic where 4chan fights the Twilight Fandom. It doesn't end well.

[User1601]

I once read a webcomic where 4chan fights the Twilight Fandom. It doesn't end well.

Sounds like it wouldn't BEGIN well... I always said that vampire-fans simply want holes in their necks, to match the ones in their heads.

[General Donner]

From what I can tell, SDN did something that pissed off 4chan, most likely /b/, although given the specifics RayCav said it was most likely 7chan, and the Channers retaliated by spamming SDN with kiddie porn.

ah only the child porn? they didn't hack wongs personal info and start harassing him and other members IRL or hiring PI's to go through his personal information and financial records to find anything remotely illegal for them to turn over to the police?

because that's usually their typical MO when dealing with aggressive sites like SDN (and yes they have actually put people in federal prison) and it would of been really sweet to see those jerks get a taste of their own medicine

I mean you have to be really stupid to take on Moot's legion of channers these guys are honestly as close as you can get to an internet old school Mafia and they have the balls and brains of the Colombian/Mexican Cartels..i mean seriously if they're dumb/crazy/ballsy enough to take on the friggen federal government and private security firms they aren't going to break a sweat at framing wong for something or ruining his life and career

i mean you absolutely don't mess with these guys it's really dangerous they're pretty much true cyberterrorists

Please tell me you don't actually fantasize about Wong and company having their IRL lives ruined because of some Internet vendetta? That's beyond pathetic going into actually malicious, and if you say such things you really only validate everything they say about us "Trektards" being immature idiots ... to say the least.

I don't like Wong, Connor, Leo1 or their cohorts in the least. They're dishonest gits and could really use a short course in manners. But really, try and keep some perspective.

[General Donner]

As for Wong having a ton of respect, I don't get that either, especially since he's extremely sexist, and according to Tyralak, he's an anti-Semite as well.

The thing is most likely that he was one of the heavy hitters back when the debate was still "young" and still kept on a fairly low intellectual level (most people on either side not knowing the deal with numbers and science, most people not having access to much obscure EU, etc). Compared to what passed for the intelligentsia in this metaverse back then, he was actually quite sophisticated, as can be witnessed by looking through his hatemail "debates" and the posting history of ASVS and early-day SDN. There was simply no one on the Trek side who could make a convincing show of defeating him in open argument -- if someone appeared to have a relevant point, he could kill it with overanalysis or appeals to vague scientific methods that most people couldn't understand, let alone counter, and then press on with the points where he had the stronger argument.

People simply weren't skilled enough to recognize many of his blatant double standards and dishonest arguments. And that he had a stream of mindless supporters who'd just go on saying "Well Mike Wong said this or that, this means you're against SCIENCE ITSELF if you doubt the Word of Wong, !" didn't help. It set up an air of him being unbeatable, which has to some degree remained with us to this day, though there's been some nagging at it of late.

It also fostered the atmosphere of pseudo-intellectual elitism that's still so typical of SDN.

To use a church analogy, since Wong's famous for those: He was like a preacher with an uneducated congregation. Whenever something he said didn't quite fit the Bible, he'd add that their version was mistranslated and the original Greek supported him. Not being able to check, they'd believe their pastor.

Nowadays, however, he seems to have mostly dropped out of the debate, just as Connor nowadays pretends it was all really a silly joke all along, and his 40k figures weren't really serious (though he continues to adamantly defend them, of course, but it's all in good cheer and you're the fanatic if you call him on it ... ). They seem to be aware that time's caught up with their numerous distortions, and are now happy to dust off their old laurels and bask in the glory of the praise of their leftover fanboys.

[General Donner]

Obi-Wan. Reacting to The Flash??????? That's just.... insane. O___O

it did come off like he didn't particularly understand comics too well, or at leas the dynamics of the flash but I think and I haven't gone back to look at the thread since like 06 I think CSM clarified it for him and even then he resisted -but he was like "well Obi-wans precognitive capabilities" or something was his defense

Superman being killed by Darth Sidious Supposedly Darth Vader choking out freaken Goku really the list of stupid claims from them goes on

I remember those old comic debates. Wong's MO in those (and that of Connor, or Durandal or whoever it was who championed SW in case it wasn't Wong himself) was typically:

1: Assume maximum SW power ever demonstrated as the baseline for the Jedi in question, the more EU the better. Famously, listing EU Sith as representative examples of Jedi power (like Naga Sadow, who could destroy stars).

1a: Further, assume maximally powerful interpretation of whatever movie or EU feat you take as the baseline.

1b: Further, assume that your assumption in 1a is actually a lowball conservative estimate.

2: Assume that the weakest showing of the comic character in question is the baseline for him/her.

2a: If this is not sufficiently weak for the Jedi to win, bring in scientific overanalysis of the art to "debunk" any comic character feat that's "too strong". For example, any attack that doesn't deal realistically with recoil and momentum (kind of like Jedi TK ...) is obviously out. It violates teh laws of physics!

2b: Profess that you're being more than generous to the comics side to allow them any superpowers at all.

3: Assume that in combat, the Jedi will immediately use maximally powerful TK to beat the enemy to a paste, while the comics character will sit around dumbly waiting to get his ass handed to him.

This really long thread is the best textbook example of it, showing all these dishonest methods in their full glory.

***

Incidentally, it's also more or less the same method Wong uses to say God is weaker than Yoda: He writes off all high-end showings of God's powers in the Bible as "scientifically impossible" or "outliers" or "unreliable narrator" or whatever, but then seizes on and misinterprets quotes out of context that seem to give a "weak" God.

As of late, one Stuart Slade adopted this part of Wong's methodology to write an atheist wankfic you may have heard of.

[User1601]

Are you SERIOUS? Kermit the Frog's ugly cousin could beat God?
The same God who made the Heaven and the Earth (i.e. the universe) in a day?
What did Yoda ever do to match that? Move an X-wing? Become a senile old ghost? Oh boy, watch out God! :D
If that's a true story, I've been giving too much credit.

and his supporters defend the out come of that match no less!! His claim was because god jobbed out to an Iron chariot he had clearly shown some type of limits that invalidated his higher end feats and thus allowed Yoda a win and a very easy win

never mind that in the scene in question it was an angel doing the jobbing.

the man is more resentful then anything else, batshit crazy and not really worth analyzing any deeper. to claim what he claimed according to those present in that thread is in and of itself absolutely ape shit..I'm also wondering why the guy would even bring up gods "feats' when he has shown nothing but clear cut personal bias against the feat based debate system as evidence of his endorsing invasions of forums like CBR/SHC and so on

basically he had a titty attack and decided to pull out all the stops to find anything to mock Christianity and wank star wars in the same thread even if it meant utilizing a system he supposedly loathed.

He also argued with Crossovermaniac for multiple pages claiming that Obi-wan Kenobi could react to the flash...although that's not nearly as insane as claiming a freaking Jedi can beat an omnipotent creator type

Typical "Super Fans" Mary-Sue defense: e.g. "Who'd win, God or the Chicago Bears?"






"DA Bearsssss!"

[User1601]

As for Wong having a ton of respect, I don't get that either, especially since he's extremely sexist, and according to Tyralak, he's an anti-Semite as well.

The thing is most likely that he was one of the heavy hitters back when the debate was still "young" and still kept on a fairly low intellectual level (most people on either side not knowing the deal with numbers and science, most people not having access to much obscure EU, etc). Compared to what passed for the intelligentsia in this metaverse back then, he was actually quite sophisticated, as can be witnessed by looking through his hatemail "debates" and the posting history of ASVS and early-day SDN. There was simply no one on the Trek side who could make a convincing show of defeating him in open argument -- if someone appeared to have a relevant point, he could kill it with overanalysis or appeals to vague scientific methods that most people couldn't understand, let alone counter, and then press on with the points where he had the stronger argument.

People simply weren't skilled enough to recognize many of his blatant double standards and dishonest arguments. And that he had a stream of mindless supporters who'd just go on saying "Well Mike Wong said this or that, this means you're against SCIENCE ITSELF if you doubt the Word of Wong, !" didn't help. It set up an air of him being unbeatable, which has to some degree remained with us to this day, though there's been some nagging at it of late.

It also fostered the atmosphere of pseudo-intellectual elitism that's still so typical of SDN.

To use a church analogy, since Wong's famous for those: He was like a preacher with an uneducated congregation. Whenever something he said didn't quite fit the Bible, he'd add that their version was mistranslated and the original Greek supported him. Not being able to check, they'd believe their pastor.

Nowadays, however, he seems to have mostly dropped out of the debate, just as Connor nowadays pretends it was all really a silly joke all along, and his 40k figures weren't really serious (though he continues to adamantly defend them, of course, but it's all in good cheer and you're the fanatic if you call him on it ... ). They seem to be aware that time's caught up with their numerous distortions, and are now happy to dust off their old laurels and bask in the glory of the praise of their leftover fanboys.

In other words, "in the land of the blind, a one-eyed man is king..." that's why SDN is wall-to-wall Helen Kellers, while the rest get banned for seeing too much.

Sadly, this is often the case with sociopaths: i.e. they fool the easily fooled, and attack those who expose them as the enemy.

Consider any example from history: they'd lead the ignorant to their doom, and anyone who warned against the danger was branded a "hater."

And it's not like small, petty versions are going to be any better; rather, they're sure to be worse, since they're less visible; it's not like we'll be seeing any Nuremberg hearings.

I just think it's an interesting pattern.... and not exactly unpredictable or atypical.

[User1601]

From what I can tell, SDN did something that pissed off 4chan, most likely /b/, although given the specifics RayCav said it was most likely 7chan, and the Channers retaliated by spamming SDN with kiddie porn.

ah only the child porn? they didn't hack wongs personal info and start harassing him and other members IRL or hiring PI's to go through his personal information and financial records to find anything remotely illegal for them to turn over to the police?

because that's usually their typical MO when dealing with aggressive sites like SDN (and yes they have actually put people in federal prison) and it would of been really sweet to see those jerks get a taste of their own medicine

I mean you have to be really stupid to take on Moot's legion of channers these guys are honestly as close as you can get to an internet old school Mafia and they have the balls and brains of the Colombian/Mexican Cartels..i mean seriously if they're dumb/crazy/ballsy enough to take on the friggen federal government and private security firms they aren't going to break a sweat at framing wong for something or ruining his life and career

i mean you absolutely don't mess with these guys it's really dangerous they're pretty much true cyberterrorists

Please tell me you don't actually fantasize about Wong and company having their IRL lives ruined because of some Internet vendetta? That's beyond pathetic going into actually malicious, and if you say such things you really only validate everything they say about us "Trektards" being immature idiots ... to say the least.

So you think they should be shielded from consequence of their own actions? The devil, you say; that just fuels their delusions of elite privilege to DO it in the first place, thinking that abusing others is proof of their superiority TO them (and other sadistic Nazi-logic).

Rather, it's texbook Wong-hypocrisy for him to rain hellfire on others, but then cry "foul" when it comes his turn.

On Darkstar's website, for example, he threatens legal action because he got stomped by Darkstar's rebuttal; but then when Darkstar threatened countersuit, and reminds Wong that Wong has a lot more to lose and less to gain, Wong squeals like a pig and accuses Darkstar of "waging frivolous lawsuits over fictitious internet conversations" etc.
In short, the most shameless of shamelessness.

It's bad enough when someone says "all's fair in war," but this shows that it doesn't even need to be a matter of real life in order for some to sink to the lowest depths of behavior.

[Admiral Breetai]

Please tell me you don't actually fantasize about Wong and company having their IRL lives ruined because of some Internet vendetta? That's beyond pathetic going into actually malicious, and if you say such things you really only validate everything they say about us "Trektards" being immature idiots ... to say the least.

maybe not 4chan style cyberterrorism because they'd go after wongs kids too but they do deserve to be taken to task legally or other wise for the real life abuses and harassments and demanding of personal info online and such

I don't like Wong, Connor, Leo1 or their cohorts in the least. They're dishonest gits and could really use a short course in manners. But really, try and keep some perspective.

I have read some of my other replies where I make mentioned of them being "lucky" and such things my distaste for E psychos transcends my distaste for trolls

I remember those old comic debates. Wong's MO in those (and that of Connor, or Durandal or whoever it was who championed SW in case it wasn't Wong himself) was typically:

1: Assume maximum SW power ever demonstrated as the baseline for the Jedi in question, the more EU the better. Famously, listing EU Sith as representative examples of Jedi power (like Naga Sadow, who could destroy stars).

1a: Further, assume maximally powerful interpretation of whatever movie or EU feat you take as the baseline.

1b: Further, assume that your assumption in 1a is actually a lowball conservative estimate.

2: Assume that the weakest showing of the comic character in question is the baseline for him/her.

2a: If this is not sufficiently weak for the Jedi to win, bring in scientific overanalysis of the art to "debunk" any comic character feat that's "too strong". For example, any attack that doesn't deal realistically with recoil and momentum (kind of like Jedi TK ...) is obviously out. It violates teh laws of physics!

2b: Profess that you're being more than generous to the comics side to allow them any superpowers at all.

3: Assume that in combat, the Jedi will immediately use maximally powerful TK to beat the enemy to a paste, while the comics character will sit around dumbly waiting to get his ass handed to him.

This really long thread is the best textbook example of it, showing all these dishonest methods in their full glory.

***

yeah I've dealt with this debate tactic many times before and one time an actual comic book writer was in the thread on rumbles..where one of Wongs followers was using these methods..to debunk why Superman and Gladiator would have no trouble with a lightsaber to the chest. and said writers response was to basically launch into a profanity laced tirade against fans who dared to stifle their creativity by demanding they adhere to realism

in fact IIRC it sorta became a famous essay within the less sci fi oriented debate boards don't know if you ever heard of it but it got called "why a good writer trolls science and nit picky fans"

in any case the thing I remember the most about that thread was wong supposedly making an out and out declaration of "the speed force does not exist!!" when explained why it meant that his debate tactic had little to no value

also any man who thinks a modern Jedi especially Obi-wan Kenobi compares to an ancient sith or Jedi is lying to themselves..they crap on canon pt/ot feats

Incidentally, it's also more or less the same method Wong uses to say God is weaker than Yoda: He writes off all high-end showings of God's powers in the Bible as "scientifically impossible" or "outliers" or "unreliable narrator" or whatever, but then seizes on and misinterprets quotes out of context that seem to give a "weak" God.

the only time you can write off high end feats is when their inconsistent as all hell, which by that virtue the sheer consistency of low and mid end figures vs high end..anything he'd site from the EU is invalid

As of late, one Stuart Slade adopted this part of Wong's methodology to write an atheist wankfic you may have heard of.

you know I read some of that it's not too bad but you can tell that one has a chip on his shoulder and a serious beef with the faithful masses

The thing is most likely that he was one of the heavy hitters back when the debate was still "young" and still kept on a fairly low intellectual level (most people on either side not knowing the deal with numbers and science, most people not having access to much obscure EU, etc). Compared to what passed for the intelligentsia in this metaverse back then, he was actually quite sophisticated, as can be witnessed by looking through his hatemail "debates" and the posting history of ASVS and early-day SDN. There was simply no one on the Trek side who could make a convincing show of defeating him in open argument -- if someone appeared to have a relevant point, he could kill it with overanalysis or appeals to vague scientific methods that most people couldn't understand, let alone counter, and then press on with the points where he had the stronger argument.

see that's the thing I'm not a very scientific minded person and my method for analyzing the out come of a fight is very simply (ie better feats = win) i don't care that much for calcs beyond using them as a reference and if you ask me to do my own math your going to have a stroke trying to make heads or tails of it

but I can spot the sheer amount of bullshit in a star destroyer.net argument any day it cannot be that hard and I've run through them too to the extent that die hard wongites end up having complete melt downs against me I'm not that great it can't be that the OG of the AsVs days didn't know..a pile of shit from a mountain of gold..even if they didn't grasp the guys loftier language

People simply weren't skilled enough to recognize many of his blatant double standards and dishonest arguments. And that he had a stream of mindless supporters who'd just go on saying "Well Mike Wong said this or that, this means you're against SCIENCE ITSELF if you doubt the Word of Wong, !" didn't help. It set up an air of him being unbeatable, which has to some degree remained with us to this day, though there's been some nagging at it of late.

yeah StarWarsStarTrek did that against me, come to think of the guys thrown everything but the kitchen sink at me in every argument we've ever had and he's never won a single one-now he's resorted to accusing me of biased because I contribute to allot of threads on a topic i know allot about and using the age old 'religious right" adage by calling me Sarah Palin and a republican and this and that he even attempted the creationist allegory but since I publicly said doing such a thing would be bigotry he stopped debating me lol

come to think of it my track record in regards to Sdners is pretty good..I've only lost an argument to one of them and it was over the specifics of an episode of Trek

It also fostered the atmosphere of pseudo-intellectual elitism that's still so typical of SDN

.

that's typical on allot of places real life too and it's asinine

To use a church analogy, since Wong's famous for those: He was like a preacher with an uneducated congregation. Whenever something he said didn't quite fit the Bible, he'd add that their version was mistranslated and the original Greek supported him. Not being able to check, they'd believe their pastor.

when some one calls him out..his reaction is fire and brimstone

Nowadays, however, he seems to have mostly dropped out of the debate, just as Connor nowadays pretends it was all really a silly joke all along, and his 40k figures weren't really serious (though he continues to adamantly defend them, of course, but it's all in good cheer and you're the fanatic if you call him on it ... ). They seem to be aware that time's caught up with their numerous distortions, and are now happy to dust off their old laurels and bask in the glory of the praise of their leftover fanboys.

while that's smart it's only going to last them so long we have an old saying in the world of comic/manga vs debates "your only as good as your last debate even the OG's can't live off past reputation for very long sooner or later your gonna get called out "

[2046]

Um, I don't know why my post is the OP of the thread since I had nothing to do with this thread, but I would like to state that I was quoting Oragahn speaking about Lucas, which had nothing to do with Wong.

That is all.

[Tyralak]

How DARE you say such things about our Lord? All of you must repeat after me. "There is no God but Wong, and Saxton is His Prophet. Peace be upon him."

[Admiral Breetai]

How DARE you say such things about our Lord? All of you must repeat after me. "There is no God but Wong, and Saxton is His Prophet. Peace be upon him."

forgive us father for we have sinned

[Mr. Oragahn]

How DARE you say such things about our Lord? All of you must repeat after me. "There is no God but Wong, and Saxton is His Prophet. Peace be upon him."

Fools, this is Blasphemy! Saxton and Wong are one and the same Holy and they're indivisible!
It's written in the Sanctified ICS!
You will recant! NOW!

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

I just now and again get the impression that Wang is sitting at home in front of his PC chuckling his bollocks off and telling a buddy that he is really a trekkie and he created a parody site as a bit of a joke years ago and it attracted all these emo raging nerds who take it seriously.

So he decided to run with it as a bit of a lark and it ended up as what we see now a haven for foaming at the mouth warsies who run a third Reich style of debating for any who join and dare challenge the group belief.

The similarities between how they operate on SDN and how religious zealots behave is very obvious and the section that covers "creationism" along with the hatred they spew out towards creationists at the same time is just incredible to see considering.

I should really join up again and rattle the cages as its been a few months since i had a bit of fun over there...:).

[Mr. Oragahn]

I just now and again get the impression that Wang is sitting at home in front of his PC chuckling his bollocks off and telling a buddy that he is really a trekkie and he created a parody site as a bit of a joke years ago and it attracted all these emo raging nerds who take it seriously.

So he decided to run with it as a bit of a lark and it ended up as what we see now a haven for foaming at the mouth warsies who run a third Reich style of debating for any who join and dare challenge the group belief.

The similarities between how they operate on SDN and how religious zealots behave is very obvious and the section that covers "creationism" along with the hatred they spew out towards creationists at the same time is just incredible to see considering.

I should really join up again and rattle the cages as its been a few months since i had a bit of fun over there...:).

It's Wong and not Wang, and he doesn't really care. He just jumps in to vent some frustration at times and throw some feces at Trekkies and other "idiots" in general and that is all.
The only reason he's "relevant" is because of his website and his pages, and his aura. Of course there's a lot of hypocrisy coming from the inflaters of SDN, but that's not a surprise to anyone.