Club ASVS is up

[Mike DiCenso]

Wow. Will wonders never cease? Oh well, I can't say I shed a tear for the guy considering all the grief he's given people who don't uphold the Word of Saxton, Wong, and the Holy Books of the ICS.

That being said, there's elements of SDA's style and choice of words that almost makes me at times it could be Wayne or even Mike Wong.
-Mike

[Tyralak]

Wow. Will wonders never cease? Oh well, I can't say I shed a tear for the guy considering all the grief he's given people who don't uphold the Word of Saxton, Wong, and the Holy Books of the ICS.

That being said, there's elements of SDA's style and choice of words that almost makes me at times it could be Wayne or even Mike Wong.
-Mike

I doubt it's Wayne because I have him on Facebook, and I invited him to my site. He told me he wasn't the least bit interested in the debate anymore. Wong is a strong possibility. I can see him doing that. Enigma suggested the Duchess, but I don't think it's her. We always got along well. And I know it's not Dalton. He's a friend of mine, and while he hates Raycav, he wouldn't attack me. It's probably Wong. As far as Graeme goes, he's a bonehead. He doesn't know when to quit. However, He (along with anyone else) is welcome at my site, should he choose to show up.

[Mike DiCenso]

I suggested Wayne because he, along with Eric Cline in the original "GALAXY CLASS STARSHIP vs IMPERIAL CLASS STAR DESTROYER" thread that started all of this in 1995, used "delusional Trekkie" quite a bit to distract when things in the arguement didn't go their way. I know Wong and others picked up on this. In fact, I'd almost bet it is Wong trying to see if he can get you to either out his info, or ban him by constant trolling, thus making you look like a hypocrite.
-Mike

[Tyralak]

I suggested Wayne because he, along with Eric Cline in the original "GALAXY CLASS STARSHIP vs IMPERIAL CLASS STAR DESTROYER" thread that started all of this in 1995, used "delusional Trekkie" quite a bit to distract when things in the arguement didn't go their way. I know Wong and others picked up on this. In fact, I'd almost bet it is Wong trying to see if he can get you to either out his info, or ban him by constant trolling, thus making you look like a hypocrite.
-Mike

I wouldn't doubt it. However, I have no intention whatsoever of banning him or revealing his info. As far as I'm concerned, IP info is personal information, and I won't reveal it. (It's a proxy anyway) And I've mentioned on the site that I don't intend to ban him. The only way he will get banned is if he does something illegal that will get me in trouble. Same as anyone else. On another note, I've restarted an old favorite of mine, TDiC. There is a good debate going on right now. It's amazing to see the mental gymnastics of those who want to explain away what's right in front of their faces.

[Mike DiCenso]

I'am well aware that you won't do either of those things, but it won't stop Wong (or whoever) from trying on the off chance that you do lose your temper and do it out of spite.
-Mike

[Jedi Master Spock]

I wouldn't doubt it. However, I have no intention whatsoever of banning him or revealing his info. As far as I'm concerned, IP info is personal information, and I won't reveal it. (It's a proxy anyway)

I'am well aware that you won't do either of those things, but it won't stop Wong (or whoever) from trying on the off chance that you do lose your temper and do it out of spite.
-Mike

For all you know, Mike, it could be me behind that proxy, practicing my Wong impression for when I need a sockpuppet pro-Wars debater. Assuming I was willing to put time into such things.

[Mr. Oragahn]

After their board invasions, they're going through an era of isolationism. I don't even think Wong would want wasting time doing this, nor would be amused in such petty activities (anymore?). And even if there were one SDN denizen to troll oversea, I'm not even sure it would be worth laughs and giggles that amused the people some years ago.
They have grown such a secluded dogmatic order of some kind, and so refuse the debate which they consider done and redone in every possible way, that I have hard times imagining them invading a STvSW board like if it were the 90s.

[Mike DiCenso]

I wouldn't doubt it. However, I have no intention whatsoever of banning him or revealing his info. As far as I'm concerned, IP info is personal information, and I won't reveal it. (It's a proxy anyway)

I'am well aware that you won't do either of those things, but it won't stop Wong (or whoever) from trying on the off chance that you do lose your temper and do it out of spite.
-Mike

For all you know, Mike, it could be me behind that proxy, practicing my Wong impression for when I need a sockpuppet pro-Wars debater. Assuming I was willing to put time into such things.

Well, except that we know you pretty well, and it's not your style to go out and do something like that. Unless you're really posing as Kane Starkiller from time-to-time to rile things up around here. ;-P

Could it be someone pretending to be a Rabid Warsie? Sure. That thought also crossed my mind, but I don't think so as there are still some Warsies out there who yearn for the good old days of debating and under the pretext of amusement by slumming amongst us "delusional, uneducated Trekkies" they come over here or now go over to ASVS to occasionally play around. Then you've got the other type, like Vympel/Leo1 who simply go around outside SDN to patrol places like SB.com and attack any infidels who dare question The Word of the Holy ICS.

Also this Star Destroyer Avenger person seems a bit too knowledgeable about the going-ons at SDN and the old USENET ASVS to simply be some random sock puppet poser.
-Mike

[Praeothmin]

SDA is certainly not Wong, IMO, for the simple reason that I doubt Wong would take the time to do that, feeling the debate is over, and also because SDA's posts are simple insults, without any intelligent rebuttals of any kind.
Notice that even when Wong insults someone at SDN, there's at least some kind of rebuttal accompanying the insult.
SDA doesn't do that...

I think it's more likely he is a young SDN denizen with an SDN (and Wong in particular) worship, who can't form arguments by himself, so he resorts to insults and name-calling...

[Mike DiCenso]

After their board invasions, they're going through an era of isolationism. I don't even think Wong would want wasting time doing this, nor would be amused in such petty activities (anymore?). And even if there were one SDN denizen to troll oversea, I'm not even sure it would be worth laughs and giggles that amused the people some years ago.
They have grown such a secluded dogmatic order of some kind, and so refuse the debate which they consider done and redone in every possible way, that I have hard times imagining them invading a STvSW board like if it were the 90s.

Not suprisingly they declared victory after they managed to sneak in and codify in the EU their own concept of how powerful SW tech is, thus killing the debate in most areas, except certain other franchises, like WH40K, and also secured for safe the only other major board out there at the time where Versus debates were going on (Space Battles.com) by placing into power there pro-SW and pro-ICS mods who would smack down any dissenting arguements, regardless of merit. So of course they went into isolation mode. In their minds they won.

But then they started squandering that by viciously attacking a certain EU author and turned people against them. The tactics they used in a silly pastime weren't suited for more serious endeavors, and that cost them dearly when Pablo Hidalgo and Gary M. Sarli in apparent retalitation began the process of retconning out their beloved ICS from the EU continuity.

And how could they have known that just 6 years or so after the publication of AOTC:ICS that the TCW CGI series would not only pop up and trash everything they claimed about SW tech superiority, but also be rated at second only to the movies themselves and well above the EU (as well as ICS) in the canon hierarchy?

So now they're closed up in SDN, a few of them patrol the boards and they become less and less relevant as the TCW continues to unravel their little world, and they scream with their fingers in ears "LALALALALALALA! NOT THERE! NOT THERE!".
-Mike

[Mike DiCenso]

SDA is certainly not Wong, IMO, for the simple reason that I doubt Wong would take the time to do that, feeling the debate is over, and also because SDA's posts are simple insults, without any intelligent rebuttals of any kind.
Notice that even when Wong insults someone at SDN, there's at least some kind of rebuttal accompanying the insult.
SDA doesn't do that...

I think it's more likely he is a young SDN denizen with an SDN (and Wong in particular) worship, who can't form arguments by himself, so he resorts to insults and name-calling...

This is also possible, simply taking choice insults, like "delusional trekkies" and running around trying to sound like Wong or Poe and hoping to win points back home for slamming the infidels. You hit on another thing I've noticed about the Rabid Warsies who go about to boards outside the safety of SDN and SB.com... they can't usually do anything but parrot Wong or Saxton, and when that parroting is challenged, they fall back on the tired old insults. At least Kane Starkiller tries with the rebuttals, but he's still way too dependent on the SDN groupthink for support to make his case.
-Mike

[Tyralak]

I wouldn't doubt it. However, I have no intention whatsoever of banning him or revealing his info. As far as I'm concerned, IP info is personal information, and I won't reveal it. (It's a proxy anyway)

I'am well aware that you won't do either of those things, but it won't stop Wong (or whoever) from trying on the off chance that you do lose your temper and do it out of spite.
-Mike

For all you know, Mike, it could be me behind that proxy, practicing my Wong impression for when I need a sockpuppet pro-Wars debater. Assuming I was willing to put time into such things.

If that were the case, I'd actually find it pretty funny. But then again, I have a twisted sense of humor.

[Mike DiCenso]

Yeah, it could even be you Tyralak! ;-)
-Mike

[Jedi Master Spock]

At least Kane Starkiller tries with the rebuttals, but he's still way too dependent on the SDN groupthink for support to make his case.
-Mike

I wouldn't say so. He makes some good points, and some original points as well. I appreciate his visits to SFJ.

There's a very big difference between debating with Kane and debating with Darth Servo or Vympel (who can be relied upon to give the precise SDN "party line" if it exists, nineteen times out of twenty, and are thus far more predictable in their responses) or Point45 (who seems not to fully understand the arguments he has mostly cribbed from SDN, and therefore tends to give a somewhat incoherent account of common SDN positions).

[Mike DiCenso]

Well it is true that Kane comes up with some original ideas amd a few good points, hence my earlier "he tries". But IMHO, from what I've observed of him from our first encounters long ago in the Strek-v-Swars.net forums, he would demonstate the habit of falling back for help from his fellow SDNers when things didn't go his way. The thread on "The Pegasus" asteroid comes to mind, among others where he would disappear for sometimes weeks, then come back with fresh arguements that sounded like they came from Wong himself. Sure enough, some of us browsed the SDN Star Trek and Star Trek versus Star Wars forums and found he had started threads there so he could get help. Now since that time, SDN has gone isolationist and all ST versus SW discussions have been ruthlessly quelled by Wong and his mods, so Kane can't fall back on that as much as he used to.

And you are right on in your assessment of Leo1 and Point45 who rarely cannot do more than parrot and insult. Hence a lot of their arguements turn into circular fallacies in the hope that a pro-Wars mod will step in and shut the thread down, or punish the pro-Trek (or other franchise) opposition .
-Mike