LMAO@SpaceBattles!

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Praeothmin
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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Praeothmin » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:32 pm

Kor, let me get this straight:
Leo1 first said the armor was penetrated in "unseen" locations, but then dropped this point, i.e. "retracted it", and came back with blunt force trauma, and no one called him any names for dishonest debating?
In other words, retracting a claim and presenting a new one is acceptable?
So then, when Jedi Matt says:
You posts things, then backtrack with "I didn't say that", you post other things than use circular logic to try and back your claims.
Like it's a bad thing, he thus includes Leo1 in this, right?
You do, right, Jedi Matt?

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:14 pm

Praeothmin wrote:Kor, let me get this straight:
Leo1 first said the armor was penetrated in "unseen" locations, but then dropped this point, i.e. "retracted it", and came back with blunt force trauma, and no one called him any names for dishonest debating?
He conceded that no damage was done tyhen went on a rant about how the blade was shite due to not penetrating the armor or Klingon heads, he ignored the lethean being spitted.
In other words, retracting a claim and presenting a new one is acceptable?
So then, when Jedi Matt says:
You posts things, then backtrack with "I didn't say that", you post other things than use circular logic to try and back your claims.
Like it's a bad thing, he thus includes Leo1 in this, right?
You do, right, Jedi Matt?
Technically leo1 never denied that he had made the first claim although he did avoid the fact that he first asserted slashing damage (requiring the blade be sharp) and then ignored the fact i was talking about piercing damage that just required it to be pointed.

Obviously the head shots and slashing shots he ranted about require a sharp blade to cut (so it did not still have a edge, a fact i never disputed) while piercing like with the lethean and the hits to the armor i posted images of required points (my actual argument he avoided by focusing on the head shots not cutting).


As i said the entire thread was a troll but i put up a reasonable argument for the armor considering the circumstances and as such it clearly frustrated the fuck out of them to the point of back tracking and ignoring evidence etc.

Lets face it real spartans in the phalanx at The Battle of Thermopylae VS Klingons with only poor choreography allowed on SB.com.......now thats a damn challenge but i got some fucking great stuff on LEO1 as a result of finding that stuff on the armor...:).

1. Facial expression as a unit of measurement for mortal slashing wounds to the torso apparently trumping actual visuals of the undamaged armor and torso.... (fucking priceless that one :) ).

2. Blaming the producers for not wanting the costumes damaged.

These are my 2 personal favorites...:D.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by User1662 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:06 pm

SS4 sort of does something right, for once:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=268

Although he doesn't say anthing to Leo, but when I can post again in an hour or two I'll be back on his case.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:10 pm

One has to be a rabid fanboy or delusional to pursue the same idea that the Dodonna quote has to lead to an average firepower in the league of e26 J per warship's volley or some such.
Not only a quotation from "Death Star" would help mitigating the interpretation, but it would be equally simple to point out that there's simply no evidence whatsoever that the firepower of a normal warship scales up to that degree of destruction in the whole 6 movies arc.
From the asteroids flash destroyed which we know are not as big as formerly claimed for years, and also are quite special, to all facts we have which can use to scale up, such as:

- the Millennium Falcon's hull being threatened by the "bazooka-like" tripod gun carried by snowtroopers (E-web in the EU) in the TESB novelization. You'd think that would be quite short for a ship that's supposed to be able to withstand one or two shots if her shields would fail to absorb all the energy of a bolt fired at her. For the reminder, Wong calculates a shielding capacity in the megatons from TESB, and this fits with the numerous AOTC:ICS figures for ships of the same size, either for shielding or power production, which has to be in the same ballpark. A concordance needed to match with the act of scaling up those figures until you reach star destroyer sizes and the much vaunted teratons.
It's pretty obvious that the tripod gun, in the best case scenario, wouldn't come with a firepower greater than 1 GJ. And boy, that's already a silly kind of firepower on the battlefield you know, especially for an infantry weapon which was going to be used at close range!

- those same shields+hull actually threatened by asteroids which are nowhere dense and fast enough to match megatons of kinetic energy.

- TIE fighters in TESB described as threatening to the MF during the chase, yet whatever they fire hardly threaten the rock the bolts hit.

- TIE fighters in ANH managing to actually cause internal damage to the Millennium Falcon, meaning that their guns have to have been set at a level similar to the tripod gun. If they had anything like multi->GJ guns or even kiloton guns, the MF would have been erased from space by mistake.

Then you add several other examples :

- patches of Invisible Hand's thick hull burning up in atmosphere despite utter lack of former visible damage in those same zones.

- the same ship actually breaking up in two after an off-axis internal explosion nowhere close to even a multi-kiloton, most of which would have been directed outside since it happened in rooms open to space, with force fields allowing projectiles to fly out.
That's rather odd for a ship that is said to have megaton-level point defense guns in the ROTS:ICS. There's quite a huge disconnect between what is needed to withstand the mere shock of a megaton PD gun impact on your hull and going down because some sort of multi-gigajoule (being generous in fact, considering the yields of a single canister) blast ripping the same ship apart.

- top notch Jedi fighters in AOTC still being threatened by bolts that turn 3~4 wide asteroids which seem to be mainly amalgamated chunks of rock*, into still large and slow drifting debris. Again, 1 GJ per bolt is damn generous.
* we know that because of their behaviour when they collide each other, or when the seismic slicing plane goes through them (the slice manages to crack the smallest with very little heating at all).

- snowspeeders' guns (which are quite huge) don't cause much damage to merely frozen surfaces.

- and finally, the clear proof that the superlaser is a chain reaction of some sort that may result in an impressive event, but which is not the result of a direct energy transfer by means of energized particles from the battle station's main weapon, the situation is pretty clear. The former impact, which could be the only part eventually defined as DET, only blasts a limited arc of the planet and already is accompanied by a ring of whateverium (and all of this, from clouds of debris to rings, are seen to immediately slow down).

And I'm doing all of this without the EU. The EU is actually far more favourable to low ends than to the ICS claims. Same for the CWS.
So whatever Heliostorm is putting up is just gibberish.

Mind you, this is not surprising since coming from someone who, against the anti-DET camp, says the following:

"No, it's not at all. As has been stated repeatedly, just because an energy transfer has unusual effects doesn't mean that it's not an energy transfer. In case you aren't aware, DET is an incredibly vague term."

DET is, in fact, rather simple. Once the beam has hit, it's over. So if stuff still happens beyond that point, and in fact, if bigger stuff happens beyond that point, then obviously the DET theory is not the right answer.
What Heliostorm does is just repeating an extremely old counter-claim.
He shouldn't last that long, really.

Oh wait, the comedy writes itself!

He manages to equate:

"A small, one-man fighter should be able to penetrate the outer defense." <- Genuine speech

with:

"Right, and a small, one-man fighter SHOULD be able to avoid the Superlaser. But it is also in no way a certainty."

:D

Like trying to swathe mosquitos with a cumbersome, extremely low ROF fixed artillery position.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:52 pm

Mr O,

I could not believe he pulled that crap either.

I have to say it is a real indication just how fucking retarded his arguments were when even SS4 called him on at least some of them and for the most part left me alone.

He even reversed his decision on the "you do not know what DET means" stupidity in regards to demanding i reply to it once slayer pointed out my comment.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by User1662 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:43 pm

Kor_Dahar_Master wrote:Mr O,

I could not believe he pulled that crap either.

I have to say it is a real indication just how fucking retarded his arguments were when even SS4 called him on at least some of them and for the most part left me alone.

He even reversed his decision on the "you do not know what DET means" stupidity in regards to demanding i reply to it once slayer pointed out my comment.
Wasn't it just ridiculous, I mean WTF!

Now Leo is trying to claim we don't need to see HTL's fire.

My reply is up:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=303

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:34 pm

Oh well looks like i earned a 7 day enforced holiday from SB.com due to the 10 points i got for this hitting some sort of auto-ban watermark:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=444

Still i have had plenty of feedback from amused individuals so...:.


PS: For any SB fucktards reading this (leo, rabbit, atom, matt) im not denying my breaking of the rules or saying the 10 points were undeserved ect.
Last edited by Kor_Dahar_Master on Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:17 am

Sci Fi Fan wrote:So vaporizing 40 meter asteroids with single shots is weak? Blowing up a planet is weak? Making a giant, 150 kiloton fireball as the AT-AT did is weak? Your visual analysis is weak.
I see that StarWarsStarTrek is continuing to repeat the same fallacies, plus a few new ones in this debate. Forty meter asteroids? Where? The asteroids "vaporized" by the unidentified ISD are only about 2.3 times or so wider than the bolts hitting them, which places them in the 1-8 meter range. Maybe 12-14 meters, if you stretch things out.

The Death Star destruction of Alderaan is impressive, but then a chain-reaction planet buster is no less or more impressive than a trilithium star burster.

A 150 kt fireball? Since when? No explosion seen in TESB during the Battle of Hoth was 150 KT. There would have been a huge mushroom cloud and shockwave that would have killed the Rebel troopers instantly since they had no shielding, except the little trenches, and towards the end of the battle, they were on the run. The explosion from the generator is likely just the thing releasing a huge ball of plasma into the air when ruptured by the Veer's AT-AT's blasters.
-Mike

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Admiral Breetai » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:31 am

So DBZ fanboys transcend a new level of stupidity over there.

and SWST is acting like a Baboon that just dropped a bunch of acid and was forced to watch the willy Wonka tunnel montage for 24 hours

sounds like your everyday event over there

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:09 pm

Rogerd wrote:
Now Leo is trying to claim we don't need to see HTL's fire.

My reply is up:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=303
You'll excuse me but I didn't follow the entire argument between the both of you.
What's the deal, exactly?

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:20 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote: A 150 kt fireball? Since when? No explosion seen in TESB during the Battle of Hoth was 150 KT. There would have been a huge mushroom cloud and shockwave that would have killed the Rebel troopers instantly since they had no shielding, except the little trenches, and towards the end of the battle, they were on the run. The explosion from the generator is likely just the thing releasing a huge ball of plasma into the air when ruptured by the Veer's AT-AT's blasters.
-Mike
Yeah, 150 KT is a stupid claim, unless you do what Saxton did and claim a super duper distance, like 17 km, based on a number displayed on the periscope Veers used. The problem with that is the bolts' speed. They're simply not fast enough to have covered the necessary distance in what amounts to less than 0.4 seconds from the moment the first bolt passes over the rebel soldiers, within 8 frames.
The same first bolt takes about 7-8 frames or a bit less to pass above the soldiers we see in the foreground in the precedent sequence showing the AT-AT firing the background, above the Rebels' heads, and I doubt there was even a full kilometer between them and the machine. That is how fast those bolts moved.

Plus it's a power generator, the one that is responsible of the base and the shields, working at full at that moment.
Like I said a long time ago, I find it interesting that the generator, which was supposed to generate enough power to sustain a shield able to repel the firepower of Death Squadron, didn't release more energy in blowing up.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by General Donner » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:24 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Plus it's a power generator, the one that is responsible of the base and the shields, working at full at that moment.
Like I said a long time ago, I find it interesting that the generator, which was supposed to generate enough power to sustain a shield able to repel the firepower of Death Squadron, didn't release more energy in blowing up.
Depending on just how the mechanism of the reactor operates (whether fusion of some kind, M/AM or some kind of more exotic Saxtonian matter annihilation), the process might be interrupted very quickly upon passing some safety limit. A catastrophic reactor failure doesn't necessarily imply the uncontrolled release of massive amounts of energy, if their safety features are very good. That'd require an unstable fuel also to be certain.

The way Saxton envisions shields also, IIRC they don't really use that much power. Mostly they're passive devices for converting and reradiating energy with (relatively) small input from the ship's (or here, base's) power systems. (Though I believe that contradicts the implications of much other EU literature.)

In any case, I agree with you on the point of the >100 kilotons. Absence of mushroom cloud should indicate much lower total energy than that. And the reactor contributed an unknown portion of that in turn.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:24 pm

General Donner wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Plus it's a power generator, the one that is responsible of the base and the shields, working at full at that moment.
Like I said a long time ago, I find it interesting that the generator, which was supposed to generate enough power to sustain a shield able to repel the firepower of Death Squadron, didn't release more energy in blowing up.
Depending on just how the mechanism of the reactor operates (whether fusion of some kind, M/AM or some kind of more exotic Saxtonian matter annihilation), the process might be interrupted very quickly upon passing some safety limit. A catastrophic reactor failure doesn't necessarily imply the uncontrolled release of massive amounts of energy, if their safety features are very good. That'd require an unstable fuel also to be certain.
Thing is, even outside of the EU, there already are clues that the apex of power production technology is a very refined form of fusion which seems to run on the oddest forms of liquid fuel, which itself could be used for mere combustion as well.
The cores are really supposed to constrain massive amounts of energy at a given time, the kind which obviously requires superconductors sheathed by hypoconducting systems.
The size of the generators themselves should us something about the power requirements, really. Especially the advantage of leaving them outside, in the snow, presumable to deal favourably with any thermal excess.

In the EU, we have evidence of combustible fuel. We also have evidence that cores are fusion based, and eventually, under Saxton model, use vast amounts of tachyonic fuel constrained artificially. The super dense kind, which would already blow up to urbanicide extents by merely breaking the containment.
This is not the low fusion system which is effectively killed the moment you don't maintain the pressure. We're talking about small artificial stars here. There is an inertia of importance, in which thermal energy does take time to dissipate, and can only do it naturally within its environment.
The way Saxton envisions shields also, IIRC they don't really use that much power. Mostly they're passive devices for converting and reradiating energy with (relatively) small input from the ship's (or here, base's) power systems. (Though I believe that contradicts the implications of much other EU literature.)
Fortunately, Saxton's model isn't the only way to go by, and doesn't seem to work with several facts from the movies which he really analyzes with an AC/DC habit.
For example, the presence of those oddly placed extra reactors in the Trade Federation Droid Control Ship, which Anakin blew up.
They even did it again in the latest TCWS episodes taking place on Umbara.
Those things, apparently, were providing extra power to the shields, even when they were only protecting the ship from the N-1s.
There's the fact that the Echo Base generator wouldn't have to be that huge to begin with, considering it's responsible of the shields (I doubt that when working near max, most of the power would go to the base's systems, lights, comps, life support, machines, etc.).
If shields didn't use that much power, I guess it would be very easy to run on some safety energy cell or buffer, even if the main source of power were to get cut from the shielding system. Yet that ain't what happened in TPM when Padmé's ship got rocked.
There's also the fact that in the Saxtonian model of volumetric shields (since he doesn't recognize flak bursts, he goes with those silly and flickering cloud like shields, and he pretty much states it openly in the introduction to AOTC:ICS) requires to be maintained online, and needs to produce neutrinos from somewhere, which presumably could only happen with some kind of annihilation process going on, so those neutrinos could get super charged in energy or whatever.

The EU settled that a long time ago. Shields take large amounts of power there. Latest clear case I know of being in "Death Star", in showing how Bevelisk told Tarkin that the Death Star would have minimal shielding because you can't power everything, and some concession had to be made. I think it's absolutely clear.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:25 pm

Ok so here we have for your amusement the latest bit of absurdly biased bullshit from that fucking asshole SS4 on SB.COM.

So the story begins with Tanly making a clear claim regarding phasers being DET weapons:

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=402

I challenged him on it over the course of the thread and he refused to support the claim so i reported him several times over the course of the thread pointing out the claim and his refusals to support it, typically the reports were ignored by those running the place.

As that thread was closed i started my own demanding the proof but when part 5 of the original was opened i decided to get that thread deleted and repost my demand in the new thread (allegedly the new thread was opened before but i honestly did not see it.).

Anyway as a result i received this post from that prick SS4 and a 7 day ban.

Dear Kor,

You have received an infraction at SpaceBattles.com.

Reason: Bait thread, there was a perfectly valid place to put this originally, this was not it.
-------
Alright, you should know there is absolutely no need to make such a thread, knowing it plays right against the rules. There was already the 5th SW vs ST thread in Tech Discussions where you could have put this post first. But instead, you made a completely separate thread to attack a member, because you didn't like how the mods were dealing with things.

Add in your flaming in your reports, which you have been talked to about before as well, you have no excuse.

Good day.
-------

This infraction is worth 15 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?p=6973935
Quote:
close this thread pls
All the best,
SpaceBattles.com
As you can see from the link it was done AFTER i had requested deletion of the thread and moved the demand, SS4 decided that i knew about the other thread and ignored it even though if that was so i would hardly have moved my post and requested a deletion.

Summing up what a liar or fool he really is, but his stupidity does not stop there.

As you can imagine i protest the ban and treatment and get a reply:
Maybe you were not paying attention but i deleted the post in that thread and asked for it to be closed because i noticed the other had been opened and it seemed a more appropriate place to put the demand.
As I pointed out, you still made that post, hours after the other thread was re-created.
He has continually failed the BOP and made up stupid excuses and not retracted his claims like i did and even so you posted openly in a thread when banning me and have done jack shit like that to him.
Because he didn't fail the Burden of Proof, he showed evidence of vapor being formed from the phaser hitting the comet, you tried to dismiss this as "too little", but that doesn't change the fact the vapor existed.
Maybe if you did your job in regards to my reports i would not get fucking frustrated with your bullshit double standards.
Reports are not magic "Do as I say" abilities. We review the material, and if we deem it worthy of an infraction of mod injunction, we deal with it. Just because you send in a report, does not mean we will do as you say, because that isn't the point of reports. Reports are to bring potential issues to the staff's attention, and it is up to us to determine the validity of it, not yours.

Your harassment of the staff(since reports go to all mods of Vs), is unnecessary, nor is the flaming of members(and staff) in your reports.

You sent me a second PM detailing how this is the first step in the OCP. That's fine, consider this my end upheld, the infraction will not be reversed, and your ban stands; send it to an SMod as the next step.
FYI my initial reports were perfectly fine and it was only after several were clearly ignored that i got a bit more assertive.


Anyway i proceeded to point out what a shitty job he had done (quite politely i thought) and provided evidence:
As I pointed out, you still made that post, hours after the other thread was re-created.
I did not even notice the thread until later, i would not have made a separate thread then request deletion of it and reposted my demand in the part 5 if i had for gods sake.
Because he didn't fail the Burden of Proof, he showed evidence of vapor being formed from the phaser hitting the comet, you tried to dismiss this as "too little", but that doesn't change the fact the vapor existed.
How the hell does that prove phasers are DET weapons (as that is his actual damn claim), his claim was not "WE SEE VAPOR" if it had been there would be no issue.

His claim was that phasers are DET weapons as i have pointed out in every report i posted.


While you are making excuses for him and posting arguments for him heres a few fun facts that would have come up if you had forced him to answer himself and fullfill his BOP:

1. The comet was already giving off MORE vapor as per a typical comet does due to ionization from a nearby sun, image provided below:

Image

2. To make the point even more here is a image JUST as the phasers fire showing the EXISTING VAPOR the comet is giving off:

Image

And finally look at the image as the phasers disintegrate the damn comet showing FAR LESS VAPOR:

Image


Now any child would point out that a DET vaporisation of a comet that size should produce a virtual mini nebula of vapor, and that it would most certainly not produce less vapor than simple ionization was producing from a sun billions of km away.

But again FIRSTLY you not only did not bother forcing him to justify his claim but have now made up a excuse for him and changed his claim to be about vapor, AND SECONDLY its not my job to disprove DET as its his damn job to prove it as its his claim so thanks on shifting the BOP for him as well and forcing me to provide evidence.

Reports are not magic "Do as I say" abilities. We review the material, and if we deem it worthy of an infraction of mod injunction, we deal with it. Just because you send in a report, does not mean we will do as you say, because that isn't the point of reports. Reports are to bring potential issues to the staff's attention, and it is up to us to determine the validity of it, not yours.
Well as you have pointed out you may wanna get reviewing again as his claim i challenged was that phasers were DET weapons and not that a little bit of damn vapor was produced by the disintegration of the comet.

I was pretty clear on that in EVERY report.


You sent me a second PM detailing how this is the first step in the OCP. That's fine, consider this my end upheld, the infraction will not be reversed, and your ban stands; send it to an SMod as the next step.
Read the above material i provided and get back to me again regarding this comment, you have been reasonable in the past a few times and i think the case above now it has been illustrated for you warrants a second review.

I added this:
Oh and even though i posted it in every report here is a link to his actual claim third sentence:

"Sure I can. Watch this: it's a comet, the phasers vaporized it with DET. "

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=402

Nothing about "little vapor" or anything else.

As a reply he sent me this:
Kor, I already told you my decision. You are now bordering on harassment and abusing of a staff member, I suggest you take this up with a SuperMod, I will not deal with further abuse from you.
Poor baby is claiming that he is the fucking victim lol.


I will now proceed through the waste of time complaints procedure to a higher level mod who will pass it off etc until i get to a admin who will likely handwave it away and il still have 7 days to prepare a post for the thread in regards to his stupid comment about vapor etc.
Last edited by Kor_Dahar_Master on Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LMAO@SpaceBattles!

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:49 pm

Oh and i sent in my complaint to the supermod Douglas Nicol as he lost the toss:
Hey,

Sorry to bother you with this but i flipped a coin out of the two supermods and you lost..

I feel that i have been very poorly and badly mistreated in my latest ban.

The moderator who issued it by his own comments in the thread and elsewhere is not familiar with what actually happened and has unjustly banned me for making a request regarding a BOP violation.

I have no idea what i need to provide to you but i have reams of evidence and links to posts so by all means ask.

I will admit that at one point due to frustration i did make a few comments i perhaps should not have but if justice is not provided by those who's job it is to do so then a individual will ultimately look for it themselves.

I expect this to be a big waste of time to be honest but at least it can be held up as a example of what happens when you do things the right way in regards to getting actual justice on this site.

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