http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthre ... 01&page=25
Where did this list come from? Does Rama know that this list is full of incorrect information? Who ever made the list at best was going by memory alone, and at worst was lying. Just at a glance I count three mistakes that make the claims about the episodes incorrect.Rama post: 623 wrote:It's already been shown several times in this thread that Tau and Eldar vessels can go toe-to-toe with their Imperial equivalents in the firepower stakes, which is most certainly well above the case of known Trek documentation:
Contrary to claims, the Federation are not operating in a range comparable to the IOM, or her space faring counterparts.Quote:
- Sans the fact that every instance in which the Federation were incapable of vaporizing asteroids without significant amounts of energy being involved even for them such as in Pegasus and Deja Q and in one instance in which a torpedo with an increased yield (by 11%) barely fractured the asteroid it impacted in Genesis (let alone turning the entire nearby field to vapour).
- The E-D could not destroy an asteroid with a dense iron core even with several subsequent following torpedoes in Cost of Living.
- The E-D had to supplement the aid of a minor solar prominence to destroy a vessel that their weapons were utterly useless against in Descent, part II, similarly three Dominion attack craft are destroyed whilst sitting on the leading edge of a CME during the episode Shadows and Symbols (the same episode in which a Klingon Commander exclaimed that by skimming near the photosphere of a star that they were "too close").
- During the events of the Klingon Civil War as depicted in Redemption, part 2, a Klingon BOP is being pursued by two other such vessels into the corona of a yellow star, to which the helmsman states that their course will take them dangerously close to the photosphere. Later, the Captain orders a warp skimming maneuver that kicks up a solar prominence, instantly destroying the pursuing BOP’s. Much like in the above, the cloud was incredibly diffuse, translucent to the naked eye and barely moving at several kilometers per second at most; and yet was sufficiently energetic as to outright pulverize two vessels that could both serve as frontline warships.
- The crew of the Voyager encounters a Cardassian missile with a one ton M/AM mix in Dreadnought, causing him to exclaim about the fact that it could destroy a small moon.
- Voyager was forced to ground herself when under attack from Turien weapons that generated less than gigajoule range blasts when used in atmosphere during the episode Dragon's Teeth.
- Then there's the fact that we see one Bajoran Raider and two Interceptors dog fighting over the surface of a planet in The Siege. The resultant Interceptor attacks are barely enough to shake the very tree lines they hit, and yet they directly threaten the vessel as per comments from the two pilots. This is the same class of vessel that was capable of leading a standoff against a Romulan Warbird in Shadows and Symbols, and whilst they were not a direct threat by itself, was enough to give the Romulans pause for thought despite their intention of taking the system by force.
- We also have that fact that sitting twenty million kilometres away from a Neutron star would be hazardous to the shields of the E-D within minutes according to Allegiance. A Pulsar delivers approximately – at most - 4.4E31 joules of energy every second depending on the rotation of the star, which means that in the space of eighteen minutes the E-D will absorb approximately 451.4 megatons before total shield failure, which indicates that 418.2 kilotons per second is the maximum rate of absorption before the rate of power overwhelms their heat shield dissipation even when Riker orders power to be diverted to the shields. When later given the order, Data states that the vessel would not survive at a proximity of ten million kilometers from the star (or 1.7 megatons per second), but earlier Riker states that they intend to orbit at two hundred million kilometers with no sign of distress to the shields (4.1 kilotons per second); it should be noted however that this is assuming a constant pulse rather than an elliptical orbit of the stellar mass as observed in the episode - which would decrease the absorbed power rating by OOM.
- Let's not also forget that BOP's were getting dropped left, right and center by ramming - intact - Jemmie fighters in Tears of the Prophets, the E-E loses 30% of her forward and rear shields after scraping her nacelle against a loose piece of relatively slow moving debris in Nemesis, the Scimitar losing her shields (which sat at 70%) when the E-E - moving at 50m/s - crumples her like an Origami Swan.
- We then also have the Federation fleet forced to turn the defense turrets surrounding Chintoka on their own buried generator in Tears of the Prophets. These are weapons that have been seen gutting Galaxy-class warships during the battle, and yet their own weapons barely even pound sections of the rocky surface of the generator mounted asteroid.
- In The Survivors, the E-D encounters a vessel that fires a jacketed anti-matter burst with the "equivalent firepower" of 40 MW. Riker comments that this fight will be too easy, yet when the vessel later returns and fires a 400 GW particle beam, it fries the shields with only superficial damage to the ship. A second shot neutralizes the shielding all together and causes thermal damage to the hull. Data comments on this:
"The warship is in possession of enormous energy reserves. It is capable of striking us with far more powerful bursts."
- In Insurrection, Riker ramscoops a cloud of Metreon gas, dumping it in the path of, igniting it and destroying two Cruisers that had proven resistant to Qunatumn Torpedoes.
- Or how about Relics, where the E-D could only sit in the corona of a G-type star for several hours with her shields at ~20%, or does G-type mean:
"Gee, that star is giving off gigatons of NDF per square meter!"
Of course the amount of times that Trek shields (regardless of the civilization) just outright ignore gigatons of energy is legion! Legion I say!
- All joking aside, the claim that shields can withstand gigatons because of some of yet unheard of property in their NDF weapons is utterly bunk; and the fact that a Borg Cube was turned to stellar dust thanks to a relatively slow moving Bioship in Scorpion (which would need to weigh billions of metric tons just to generate KE in the low gigaton range) merely proves the rank absurdity in the claim that the Borg can displace any amount of DET weaponry and simply make it harmlessly dissipate.
Didn't ricrery1 get laughed at for constantly posting a similar list?
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthre ... 01&page=27
Given Rama list does anyone know if this is correct?Soulgazer post: 667 wrote:Descent Part 2
In this incident, the Enterprise-D moved deep into the corona of a star using special metaphasic shields, and its chief engineer estimated that its shields would fail within 5 minutes under this bombardment. Based on the presence of a habitable planet in that star system as well as the colour spectrum of the star, we can conclude that its star was very similar to Earth's star in terms of general luminosity. We can estimate corona power intensity to be roughly 60 MW/m², since that is the approximate power intensity at the surface of our Sun (note that the corona is outside the star). If we use a 100,000 m² profile area estimate, total absorption is roughly 6 TW, which would add up to roughly 420 kilotons (let's just say ½-megaton).