What's accepted SW canon?

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User1462
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Re: What's accepted SW canon?

Post by User1462 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:12 am

WILGA wrote:
Praeothmin wrote:As far as you know, that applies only to cloaking devices.
That does not apply to subspace-weapons or metagenetic weapons or time travel or ...
Then why did the Federation not use a time-travel weapon to go back in time with the Dominion attack information and make their war a lot easier, if they have these weapons?
Is it because the Federation is dumb?
That was answered more than adequately in "Enterprise" with the Temporal Cold War-- it's because they're not dumb... or at least "dumb like a fox."

Praeothmin wrote:
That they couldn't use such tactics to defend themselves in a war of destruction against the Empire or that they would be unwilling to use such tactics as a last resort?
That whatever the reason is (either they can't or they won't), we've never seen the Federation use these super-weapons even in a hopeless war (the Dominion War was pretty hopeless in the beginning, so hopeless in fact that Sisko risked alienating the romulans by planning a coup to rally them to the Federation's cause)...
desperate times need desperate measures
Maybe they decide to not use such possibilities. It probably depends on what they expect from the Empire should it win. If a victory of the Empire means death in any case, the Federation has nothing to loose.[/quote]

Don't forget the Dominion War, where Section 31 uses genocidal germ-warfare on the Changelings, which would have wiped them out soon-- and while it was technically illegal, the Federation supported it, since the Dominion was not only winning, but was also the unquestioned aggressor in that war--and likewise had no scruples in using germ-warfare as a weapon of terror, even on its own people in the Gamma quadrant.
Fortunately, friendship prevailed, as Bashir and O'Brien saved Odo;and this likewise created peace through the spirit of that friendship-- thus likewise gaining the Federation a valuable ally via the Dominion.

Praeothmin wrote:
No, both were destroyed.
The first one by a Force user, the other one again by the actions of this Force user...
And the first DS had blown up Alderaan before its destruction...
And in both cases, the Rebels had the plans for the DS and of their weaknesses...
Yes, but that means that they do not exist any more.
And in both cases, Federation ships could have easily taken out both Death Stars.

As for treaties, they only exist when there's a balance-of-power that's being protected, or a mutual principle held more important than a military objective by both sides; that wouldn't be the case here, so there would be no treaties by the Federation protecting the Empire. So phase-cloaks, Genesis weapons, temporal warfare, trilithium warheads, midichlorian-destroying nanites, dimensional-shift transport and everything else would be fair game.
The Empire has also demonstrated its ruthlessness in destroying planets, so it's no fair holding up treaties to make the Federation fight the war with one hand died around their balls.

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Re: What's accepted SW canon?

Post by sonofccn » Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:04 pm

Praeothmin wrote:But they were not destroyed by the Federation, but by Rebels who had plans of the battle station, a Force sensitive youth to destroy the first one (where the Force allowed him to turn a slim chance into victory)
Lack of force can be compensated by superior accuracy and plans can always be obtained from the Rebels if need be. Failing that one could try to send in defiant class ships and destroy the superlaser array and bypass the whole score a shot down the reactor.
Praeothmin wrote:and an incomplete second one, which was only destroyed because the Emperor lured the Rebels in a trap, which would, again, not be the case for the Federation...
True it wouldn't have giant holes leading to its reactor but that doesn't mean it can't be destroyed. Besides all things considered I don't think its wise to start down the WMD track with the Federation. How many planet destroying superweapons have they built by accident?
Praeothmin wrote:So against the Federation, we either have the DS or the DS II...
Unfortantly the time it takes to build one of these, decades for the DSI, coupled with thier short canonical lifespan makes it extremely unlikely for the Empire to have one. Picking a point in the Empire's history at random you are likely either before a death star comes on line or after it has already been destroyed.

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Re: What's accepted SW canon?

Post by User1462 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:20 pm

Going through the necro's this line really stands out for me:
Praeothmin wrote:And while I don't agree with many of Wong's comments and arguments, this one really has some merit:
When challenged by certain agenda-driven individuals who claimed that they studied George Lucas' public interviews and therefore knew his intentions better than people who worked with him professionally
Chee is closer to GL than any people claiming the EU is not true SW, so if he says it is, I'll believe him...
So basically Wong is saying that he's the only one who really knows what Chee means, and that Chee is the only one who knows what Lucas means-- and that, ergo, Wong is claiming to be the only one who knows what Lucas means.

This is a pure self-fulfilling prophecy of circular logic; it's like the Pope of the Inquistion claiming that God speaks through him, and that anyone who denies his words, denies God-- no matter that the scripture says. "Pay no attention to that munchkin behind the curtain with the toy lightsaber and the Darth Vader hat!"

That's why they published the King James' bible, IMHO, i.e. so that the people could read it for themselves, and see if the pope was full of it.
This is why I say that SDN is a cult, and Wong is dishing out the kool-aid... and anyone who finds "merit" in those words, has clearly had a few sips. :D

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Re: What's accepted SW canon?

Post by User1462 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:33 pm

sonofccn wrote:
Praeothmin wrote:But they were not destroyed by the Federation, but by Rebels who had plans of the battle station, a Force sensitive youth to destroy the first one (where the Force allowed him to turn a slim chance into victory)
Lack of force can be compensated by superior accuracy and plans can always be obtained from the Rebels if need be. Failing that one could try to send in defiant class ships and destroy the superlaser array and bypass the whole score a shot down the reactor.
Or just beam an ounce of anti-matter into it.
Boom.
Or better yet, just walk down the hall like Obi-wan did, go right past the guards in their "can't see a thing" helmets, put a cherry-bomb in the reatcor, and then "beam me up Scotty!"
Or send in some tribbles... or Ewoks.

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Re: What's accepted SW canon?

Post by User1462 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:44 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:
Praeothmin wrote:Like the time Risa got decimated?
Sorry, but Risa was never decimated during the Dominion War. You may be mistakenly thinking of the sabotage that one group of kooks did to the Risian weather control system in "Let He Who is Without Sin..." to make a statement about how they believed people in the Federation were becoming weak, decadent, and complacent. But that was a relatively minor event and it had nothing to do with the war.
-Mike
And anyway, didn't Worf help them do that?
Besides, Risa was a neutral remote resort-planet, not a military target. It would be like attacking Rio, i.e. a waste of time and resources.

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