Proof The Deathstar does not use Direct Energy Transfer

[2046]

Nice graphic. However, planar effects also occur on smaller targets like ships, so I think instead of merely "superlaser power" on the bottom it needs to be something like "superlaser power divided by target mass" or some similar extra bit.

[Mith]

That amount of power is, however, perfectly in line with the primary explosion and all the effects described in the book Death Star.

Would it? Hmm interesting. In any case, outside of some idiot assuming that the Enterprise D or a Retribution class Imperium warship could laugh off the superlaser, I see it as mostly academic.

Multiple teratons is the bare minimum to cover a large area of a planet, and several petatons most likely allows for the waste of energy from an indiscriminate attack and some extra "overkill" damage.
The splash-whitening of a whole hemisphere of Alderaan fits with that (that's before the super explosions that bursts on the other side of the planet).
The mountain upheaval and worldwide crust splitting of Despayre after the first two shots also fits with that.

Any supplemental effect is allowed by gaining a damage bonus from hyperspace. Depending on how fast you reach the "hello hypaspess can i has teh xtra joules?" threshold, you get the ring (some kind of compression, a shockwave, which fits with principles of inertia) and that also explains why despite also reaching that threshold at Despayre, we didn't get any ring (there's no description of them, yet the third shot is so many orders of magnitude more destructive than the first two ones despite relying on the exact same amount of power from the DS' core), most likely imho due to the fact that the necessary exotic hyperspace window effect whatever was only reached after three shots instead of one.
There's obviously going to be differences in effect if you dump X joules in a few seconds, or dump the same total over a series of three pourings, each spaced by some hour and like fifteen minutes of charging (I think that was the time but you better check).

It's interesting that a hypermatter core (named as such in the age old first ICS) precisely managed to open a rift into hyperspace after reaching a certain level of power.
Or in other words, that some hyperspace related phenomenon that's tied to the production of the energy in the DS core literally piggy backed the entire superlaser beam to be transfered to the planet.
Heck, we could even say that part of the destruction caused to Despayre after the first two shots already was caused by the chaotic formation of that hyperspace rift which wasn't ready yet. So with some distorsion, mass was moved in all directions and mountains went up and down and the crust started to crack.
Perhaps it depends on the mass of the planet, the mass shadow, and that you can only blast a planet into hyperspace once you have brought enough raw energy to allow a hyperspace rift to form in the region of the planet despite its shadow mass.
From there, once the rift is open, it's Piñata!

That's a pretty good theory. I like it.

[Lucky]

How about the rings; even a person doing none of the math at all would know that planar rings can't come from DET effects.

You don't want to focus too much on any one detail. You want to use all the information you can. It would be best to make a list of everything that seems off about what the Superlaser does if you are going to try to analyze it.


There are some interesting similarities between the effects the superlaser has on things, and the destruction of the Malevolence.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Nice graphic. However, planar effects also occur on smaller targets like ships, so I think instead of merely "superlaser power" on the bottom it needs to be something like "superlaser power divided by target mass" or some similar extra bit.

Mmm, the obvious rings only occur when either Alderaan or the Death Stars blow up.
The planar explosions... that's more about the limitations of the technique used. But, well, if we also were to explain that, then yes, the explosions of ships look somewhat flat.
But many do, that's the problem, so I don't spend too much time on that.

[Mr. Oragahn]

The graphic is also slightly incorrect because "Superlaser Power" on the lower right would actually have the left serpentine curve remain a straight up segment, since all shots were at the same power. What I had in mind was in fact "total superlaser effect poured into target", although fitting that into the picture is not going to be fun without disrupting the overall visual balance.
The idea is that because of the delay between each shot against Despayre, the effects dissipated a bit so the sum of three shots at 1/3 would never equal the all-at-once shot against Alderaan.
That also explains the lack of the über total overkill ring effect. It's really like different kinds of explosions, depending on the power more than the total energy past a certain magnitude.

Probably one more thing to add to the todo list.

[theta_pinch]

How about the rings; even a person doing none of the math at all would know that planar rings can't come from DET effects.

You don't want to focus too much on any one detail. You want to use all the information you can. It would be best to make a list of everything that seems off about what the Superlaser does if you are going to try to analyze it.


There are some interesting similarities between the effects the superlaser has on things, and the destruction of the Malevolence.

Okay here's a list:
Planar rings
planet is destroyed after beam stops
gap between first and second explosion
does not instantly blow off atmosphere
Energy required to propell fragments at speed seen should have vaporized the planet
fragments are seen moving faster than escape velocity yet don't leave the star system
Deathstar generator can't generate enough energy, it's impossible for something it's size to generate that much energy from fusion
beams making up superlaser stop at a fixed point
Beams can be seen

How's that?

[Mr. Oragahn]

+ giant pizza powers the initiative core.

[Lucky]

Planar rings

Certainly not something you normally see in an explosion.

planet is destroyed after beam stops

Actually the explosion happening as fast as it does is a red flag. Events on the scale of planets should appear to happen slowly do to the scale.

gap between first and second explosion

Pretty much

Energy required to propell fragments at speed seen should have vaporized the planet

I'm not sure this should happen

fragments are seen moving faster than escape velocity yet don't leave the star system

Pretty much.

You might find this interesting:
http://web.archive.org/web/200603181845 ... 040810.pdf

Deathstar generator can't generate enough energy, it's impossible for something it's size to generate that much energy from fusion

That assumes that we are talking about mundane real world technologies. I believe I've seen at least one source in the EU describe the fusion reactor in the Death Stars as being enhanced with Hyperspace technology in some vaguely defined way.

beams making up superlaser stop at a fixed point

Star Wars has gravity manipulation technology, and that means that you don't nessasarily need physical lenses to alter a beams path.

Beams can be seen

The beam being visable to the naked eye simply means it is not a L.A.S.E.R.. There are any number of particles a DET weapon can fire. So long as the beam reflects or radiates photons it will be visible.

Direct Energy Transfer is a rather open ended term.

How's that?

Not bad.

[theta_pinch]

Another proof that the Death Star isn't a pure DET weapon that accommodates the warsie belief that Alderaan has a shield.

So in this image from ST-v-SW.Net we can see that any supposed shield must be inside the atmosphere:


So even if there was a shield at 10E38 Joules of energy the superlaser would have superheated the part of the atmosphere outside the shield would still have been superheated to incandescence and rapidly disperse yet no cloud of expanding gas is seen until the entire planet explodes; long after the atmosphere should have dispersed.

[Jasonb]

First accord to http://www.theforce.net/v3-story/frontM ... 157581.asp a Star War website only movies , Clone Wars and up coming Rebels and that kind it. So pratice back his claim movies he option good anyones.

[theta_pinch]

First accord to http://www.theforce.net/v3-story/frontM ... 157581.asp a Star War website only movies , Clone Wars and up coming Rebels and that kind it. So pratice back his claim movies he option good anyones.

Can you redo that post with better grammar, I couldn't understand it at all.

[theta_pinch]

Not conclusive but more evidence: I just asked a physicist about whether a planet would really blow up if you could get enough energy and the response was it's not likely to blow up.

[2046]

You might find this interesting:
http://web.archive.org/web/200603181845 ... 040810.pdf

Ahhh . . . thanks for that. It'd been too long since I read it last. Good stuff.

[theta_pinch]

Here's another one. The mass of a beam of 10E38 joules is approximately the mass of Pluto. According to Newton's third law whenever the death star fires it would be pushed back by the equivalent of ejecting a planet at high speed, and it didn't move at all when it fired the superlaser.