Who wining the war Yesterday Enterpise timeline

[Praeothmin]

Picard said the Federation was losing the war...
Picard was in the Federation...
You were not JasonB, thus Picard is right, and you're wrong...

as much as i hate to agree with jasonb, your argument is less than satisfying when coming from someone who once responded to my question of 'if george lucas came out and flatly stated that star wars would destroy star trek in a fight, and then declared firepower numbers so high that accepting them would end the debate instantly to be canon, would you accept that' with 'no, i would still rely on the evidence seen in the movies'. if picard says the federation is losing, but jason thinks the evidence outside that statement shows otherwise, the statement itself is not enough to prove the point.

Except his points make no fucking sense, as he uses anything but the alternate universe's facts...
He uses what is seen in ENT as if it mattered in "Yesterday's Enterprise"...
It does not!
He uses things that have no relations to YE to try to explain why Picard, THE CAPTAIN OF THE FLAGSHIP OF THE FEDERATION, WHO IS IN THE THICK OF THINGS AND SHOULD KNOW DAMN WELL WHAT HE WAS SAYING, CLEARLY STATED THE FUCKING FEDERATION WAS FUCKING LOSING...
GL saying he thinks SW would lose has nothing to bear on what is shown onscreen...
Picard, IU, saying the Federation was losing, with nothing to contradict him in YE's continuity, has much higher value than JasonB's inane drivel...

[Jasonb]

Picard said the Federation was losing the war...
Picard was in the Federation...
You were not JasonB, thus Picard is right, and you're wrong...

as much as i hate to agree with jasonb, your argument is less than satisfying when coming from someone who once responded to my question of 'if george lucas came out and flatly stated that star wars would destroy star trek in a fight, and then declared firepower numbers so high that accepting them would end the debate instantly to be canon, would you accept that' with 'no, i would still rely on the evidence seen in the movies'. if picard says the federation is losing, but jason thinks the evidence outside that statement shows otherwise, the statement itself is not enough to prove the point.

Except his points make no fucking sense, as he uses anything but the alternate universe's facts...
He uses what is seen in ENT as if it mattered in "Yesterday's Enterprise"...
It does not!
He uses things that have no relations to YE to try to explain why Picard, THE CAPTAIN OF THE FLAGSHIP OF THE FEDERATION, WHO IS IN THE THICK OF THINGS AND SHOULD KNOW DAMN WELL WHAT HE WAS SAYING, CLEARLY STATED THE FUCKING FEDERATION WAS FUCKING LOSING...
GL saying he thinks SW would lose has nothing to bear on what is shown onscreen...
Picard, IU, saying the Federation was losing, with nothing to contradict him in YE's continuity, has much higher value than JasonB's inane drivel...

Cannon evidence as far USS Enterprise D goes in yesterday Enterprise timeline is the USS Enterprise D first Galaxy class battleship build and for that reason Enterprise D be the least effective in combat all Galaxy class battleships so USS Enterprise D could not be flagship of the UFP fleet. Also add it very possible USS Enterprise D not even the must advance class warship UFP fleet. During war time technology military technology get design lot fasters it would not be surprising if UFP flag ship was sovereign class battleship flag ship and UFP also had Defiant and Prometheus-class warship. Pircard been little more average Caption as far rank goes.

Also at least normal timeline Pircard hardly that good tactics not unable to do job he hardly must effective at it. I can name few Caption better tactics then Caption Pircard. By the way Caption per say play rules. Caption Sisko without question better Caption Pircard came tactics. Benjamin Maxwell at least seem to better caption then Pircard least came tactic able over come odds without having shields still destroy few enemy starships likely notice weakness take advance soon means also better analyzing information revolved . Edward Jellico is another example very good tactic order over come odds even little tough all them better notice problem over come it. Pircard both movies and in TV show bad came tactics. Pircard get diplomatic relations he like best Caption in that area however when came tactic second only Jameway even there depend on if espidoe he was terrible at tactics. In both TNG and TNG Movies he was worst when came military target notice something when came intelligence gathering. TNG Pircard many reckless act that both endanger his ship, crew and UFP very survival it self reckless Best of Both worlds could risk destroy entire UFP. Instead Borg interest kidnapping Pircard first thing basic tactic like making sure Borg nothing more then his body. UFP had technology erase all personal memory. That first thing should done put memory into Vuclan mind and then erase all memory. Yes USS Enterprise D crew done could prevent Borg kidnap Pircard used risk classified information get in hands Borg. Worf 359 likely turn out differently guessing of course include main defector dish destroy that Borg cube first place. UFP blockade against Romulans again Date notice something Pircard did not notice. USS Enterprise E as well Date override compture likley starship forward time when UFP did existed. Pircard instead rather doing that deside to reckless fight Borg risk losing ship and risk human race get assimilation. Janway both case done better likely notice borg on her ship first place. UFP intelligence wrong tons of times in war thought they losing. Include war DS9 UFP thought losing that war against the Klingon Empire and they were not. UFP intelligence even know about fact Klingon only equipment scout ship cloaking device some Pircard might finger out latter more likely one better caption come fighting. Which tought Klingon know call surrender

[Praeothmin]

I rest my ca...
Wait, I didn't understand a single sentence...

[Jasonb]

I rest my ca...
Wait, I didn't understand a single sentence...

First USS Enterprise D was the first Galaxy class battleship in the Yesterday Enterprise timeline and it was one of many Galaxy class battleships each one of them would been more advance then USS Enterprise D in the areas that matter. It be near to impossible USS Enterprise D could been the flagship
Second Caption Pircard number one weakness as a Caption is fighting in a war he just not well cut out for it. He has a natural gift in avoiding get into a fight but when it comes to fighting he is a disaster. Be it in TNG the movies or in Yesterday Enterprise timeline.

[Mr. Oragahn]

I rest my ca...
Wait, I didn't understand a single sentence...

First USS Enterprise D was the first Galaxy class battleship in the Yesterday Enterprise timeline and it was one of many Galaxy class battleships each one of them would been more advance then USS Enterprise D in the areas that matter. It be near to impossible USS Enterprise D could been the flagship
Second Caption Pircard number one weakness as a Caption is fighting in a war he just not well cut out for it. He has a natural gift in avoiding get into a fight but when it comes to fighting he is a disaster. Be it in TNG the movies or in Yesterday Enterprise timeline.

I can't believe he wrote CAPTION PIRCARD again.
This board is a fucking joke these days.

[sonofccn]

I rest my ca...
Wait, I didn't understand a single sentence...

Oh dear, and we turn to you to translate for him. Well while I won't pretend to have your gift in the linquistical arts here is my bludgeoned attempt at translation of his "reply":

I say awfully sorry for the miscommunication. If you will but permit me allow me to restate the following deductive reasoning which lead me my conclusion. Firstly I do contend the USS Enterprise-D was in fact the first ship of her class and therefore would be most grievously under matched by later built ships due to advancement and refinement in military technologies which would be brought about by the many years of heavy fighting between the Federation and the Klingons. Further I contend that upon light of this the alternate Enterprise-D could not therefore have been the flagship.

Secondly good sirs in support of my above assertion I argue Captain Picard primary weakness as a Captain is that he is not well suited for fighting. He is impeccably skilled in avoiding them, in the diplomatic arts, but it is my opinion that when he is forced into a martial situation he is an unmitigated disaster. Such can be observed in the TNG series, the movies or the Yesterday’s Enterprise’s timeline. I hope, such as I written, has sufficiently cleared up misunderstandings of my argument. Thank you.

[Praeothmin]

Yeah, his post is even more stupid once translated...

[mojo]

please don't get me wrong. i don't have any idea what he's posting, so i don't mean to say that his posts are relevant. i just think that what you had said, just there, was arguable. i did not mean to imply i understood jasonb or found his posts to be convincing. i have spent some effort trying to make the exact opposite clear.

[Jasonb]

Yeah, his post is even more stupid once translated...

Riker part Starfleet when come winning battle Riker better then Pircard. His statement they not be so confident special after pacing we gave them at Archer 4. Say two things first and must big enough victory that few more like that Klingon Empire would lose war. Second UFP had handed the Klingon Empire bad enough defeat they were either unwilling, unable or both send in another fleet to conquer Archer 4.

Another major factor why in world Klingon sends in 4 starships one scout and 3 heavy warships basic only one type that Klingon plan carry out. USS Enterprise D unlikely alone likely been least 2 maybe three other starship at that sector. Fact Klingon unlikely USS Enterprise D know not knew by on guard duty. Suggestion reason three ship try lure Federation starships starbase give chase was so that scout take out important target or carry some kind commando raid.

[Picard]

Jasonb should be banned from here until he learns English.

@Jasonb

Your Illogicallity, one battle does not, usually, win a war. Germans destroyed several times more tanks than they lost in Battle of Prokhorovka, and actually won that engagement, and continued to destroy several times more Russian tanks in almost every single tank battle from then to the end of the war, yet they lost the Goddamn war.

Federation in this scenario has been fighting for probably few decades, and was losing entire time, economy was probably wrecked, and while Starfleet was certainly still a dangerous opponent (as Riker's comment shows) it does not mean Federation was winning the war, or could have won the war.

And its not PIRCARD, it's PICARD, budalo.

[Jasonb]

What you saying not entire true battle of Moscow the Russia raped the Germany army and destroy more Nazi tanks they lost the same goes for Battle of Stalingrad.

Jasonb should be banned from here until he learns English.

@Jasonb

Your Illogicallity, one battle does not, usually, win a war. Germans destroyed several times more tanks than they lost in Battle of Prokhorovka, and actually won that engagement, and continued to destroy several times more Russian tanks in almost every single tank battle from then to the end of the war, yet they lost the Goddamn war.

Federation in this scenario has been fighting for probably few decades, and was losing entire time, economy was probably wrecked, and while Starfleet was certainly still a dangerous opponent (as Riker's comment shows) it does not mean Federation was winning the war, or could have won the war.

And its not PIRCARD, it's PICARD, budalo.

As for argument UFP losing must major battle no cannon evidence even suggestion that none or less back that claim. We know of at least one major UFP victory. Also strong evidence show Klingon Empire fighting at least two front perhaps more war one UFP and another Romulan star Empire. Fact Klingon fleet in the Gamma Hydra system during that war 130 light years from Earth no near any UFP fleet on the map. Throw Pircard very statement into question. Pircard statement only was what starfleet know about war. Not going another front. Lt Yar statements on Romulan warship able at the time of USS Enterprise C from might also back that claim. Fact tell effect move around but not tell how effect were to hit them.

[Picard]

Even if they won at Moscow, they probably would have lost the war... even if Japan took Midway, they would have lost the war...

As for Romulan Empire, we don't know wether they're in war with Klingons, or are, what is more likely, secretly supplying them to help against Federation.

[Lucky]

The way I understood the situation was that it was a lose lose situation. It would be a Pyrrhic victory for who ever won.

[Jasonb]

[quote="Picard"]Even if they won at Moscow, they probably would have lost the war... even if Japan took Midway, they would have lost the war...
Why did Klingon waste having fleet Gamma Hydra it hardly fast way to Earth? Klingon Empire already had few fleet only 25 light years from Earth. Why did they waste having fleeted there? Gamma Hydra system 130 light years from Earth the Klingon home world distance is at most 90 light years from Earth. Means Klingon Empire would have starships shipyards everything lot close as close minimal 80 light years from Earth. So why would Klingon Empire have fleet their when nearest UFP force in that star system are at least some 30 light years away only once few fleet fighting would be Romulus.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Gamma_Hydra

[Picard]

Why US didn't go straight for Japan, and bothered instead with "island hopping" strategy?