Why no reason believe MACO does not existed in DS9 and TNG

[Jasonb]

Odo no reason us that statement in first place. If maybe 5 race used projectile weapons they be first search out. Instead Odo made sound like no race even start search in first place. Sounds to me more like try hid classified technology as for Sisko he and O Brian did not seem to quick openly admit that weapon existed either. One thought Bertram get the weapon pattern lot early maybe day or week before first assassination began sound fishes say the least. When he could real republication he done a lot early I mean years early. It more likley that he stole it then republication it just timing it self.

Read the entire scene. You are taking statements out of context.

[Ilario's quarters]

(Odo, Bashir and security are with a body) 

EZRI: What happened? 

ODO: Lieutenant Ilario has been killed. 

EZRI: Killed? How?
BASHIR: It appears someone shot him. 

(After the opening titles, Sisko has arrived and O'Brien is doing the CSI tricorder thing.) 

ODO: He was killed by what appears to have been some kind of chemically propelled projectile weapon. 

SISKO: A gun? 

ODO: Doctor Bashir recovered a single tritanium bullet from Ilario's chest. 

BASHIR: He was shot through the heart. 

O'BRIEN: You don't see one of those every day. 

ODO: No one uses projectile weapons anymore. 

SISKO: You said this is tritanium, right? 

ODO: That's correct. 
SISKO: Chief, did you ever hear of a TR one one six rifle? 

O'BRIEN: It was a prototype. Developed by Starfleet Security to operate in energy dampening fields or radiogenic environments. 

SISKO: That's right. Anywhere where a normal phaser would be useless. If I'm not mistaken, the TR one one six rifle fired a chemically propelled tritanium bullet. 

ODO: You say a prototype. Were they ever mass produced? 

O'BRIEN: No. Starfleet abandoned the TR one one six in favour of regenerative phasers. 

SISKO: That doesn't mean the killer couldn't have gotten hold of the rifle's replication patterns. 

O'BRIEN: But only Starfleet officers have access to those files. 
SISKO: Disturbing thought, isn't it? 

BASHIR: Starfleet officers do not go around murdering other officers. 

ODO: Not usually, anyway. 

O'BRIEN: Hold on a minute. That's odd. According to these readings, the bullet only travelled eight or nine centimetres. 

SISKO: Then the killer must have fired at point blank range. 

ODO: I don't think so. There are no powder burns on the body. 

BASHIR: What are powder burns? 

ODO: At close range, chemically propelled weapons leave residual combustion products on the skin and clothing of the victims. 

SISKO: How did you know that? 

ODO: I read twentieth century crime novels. Raymond Chandler, Mike Hammer, that sort of thing. 

SISKO: So, if the killer did fire from close range, why aren't there any powder burns? 

O'BRIEN: I don't know. 

ODO: But we'll find out. 

EZRI: What was the time of death? 

BASHIR: Oh three seventeen. 

EZRI: That's only ten minutes after I left. 

SISKO: Was he alone? 

EZRI: I didn't see anyone, but I wasn't here for very long. 

SISKO: What do we know about Ilario, outside of his service record? 

ODO: Not a great deal. He's only been on the station for ten days.
EZRI: As far as I could tell, he was intelligent, dedicated, eager to please. Everyone liked him. 

SISKO: Not everyone. I want to know everything there is to know about him. Who his friends were, if he made any enemies. I also want increased security throughout the station. 

ODO: Yes, sir. 

SISKO: And Constable 

ODO: You want whoever did this caught. I understand, Captain.

Odo only knows about powder burns because he read a 20th century Earth crime novel, and Bashir didn't even know what powder burns were. The entire scene illustrates that that the use of firearms as weapons is extremely rare for space going races. Odo's statement about no one using firearms is an over generalization, and everyone present knows what Odo means, and do not take him literately.

Sisko and O'Brian are talking very openly about the TR-116, and it is clearly stated that any Star Fleet officer could get access to the information the weapon can't be a secret.

You can not hide a weapon existed once put out in open.Cover story what design for would smart. Why did Bashir not know about it let face why Bertram only find out about weapon few days before murder happen. He colluction guns think replication before get on station first place. Bertram delay getting weapon first place replication before he on the DS9 pritty strong evidence must starfleet office unaware existed. He might found some UFP special forces. Beside those target sensor had design for some kind special force rifle used bullet even not from that kind rifle.

The TR-116 was never a secret project. Militaries decide to develop and test weapons all the time, but then decide to not put them into production for any number of reasons all the time. Look at the XM-8 for example. There was no cover story. Phasers had a certain limitation, and the Federation was working on a work around, but then phaser designs improved, and the Federation discontinued the project because it wasn't needed.

Bashir did not know about the TR-116 because he didn't care. He is a doctor, and focuses on playing doctor in every way. Sisko and O'Brian are engineer/science types with a strong military/combat background so it something they would be interested in.

You need to show that the sight and micro transporter are part of the TR-116's standard design, and not things added by the owner as tacticool(this is slang) gear. The sight seems similar to what is on a phaser rifle after all, and in the U.S.A. you can often get a number of after market modifications done to a weapon.

If the sight not stander equipment for the rifle you expect to see differences in rifle include how change were the sight and the sight that is used in first place. It kind like extremely unlikely both the starfleet officer investigation and that Starfleet officer that was try commit murder both control scaner in same area rifle to help move to it target. That piece evidence that scaner fit just to perfectly and both rifle should different areas were could control area looking into. We expect both rifle different areas on them be used for that. center of rifle not must effective area to put on first place anyway. Transpoter look identical as well came to rifle they at the same place they same type for that matter two rifle both starfleet killer and investigation us identical every possible way. Two rifle look the very same every part target systems to the were transporter was location and were place is evidence that stander issues. Even the scaner was the same for that matter.

[Lucky]

If the sight not stander equipment for the rifle you expect to see differences in rifle include how change were the sight and the sight that is used in first place. It kind like extremely unlikely both the starfleet officer investigation and that Starfleet officer that was try commit murder both control scaner in same area rifle to help move to it target. That piece evidence that scaner fit just to perfectly and both rifle should different areas were could control area looking into. We expect both rifle different areas on them be used for that. center of rifle not must effective area to put on first place anyway. Transpoter look identical as well came to rifle they at the same place they same type for that matter two rifle both starfleet killer and investigation us identical every possible way. Two rifle look the very same every part target systems to the were transporter was location and were place is evidence that stander issues. Even the scaner was the same for that matter.

None of that shows there is a conspiracy like you claim. YOu have failed to provide any evidence the characters lied, tried to hide anything, or anything sinister for that matter.

The sight was an off the shelf model anyone could get.

The weapon was just a random rifle model that just happened to have been designed by Star Fleet.

Anyone with the engineering background could have built and installed the transporter.

Everything looking like it was all suppose to work together is a sign of a job well done, and replicators make that rather easy.

[Jasonb]

If the sight not stander equipment for the rifle you expect to see differences in rifle include how change were the sight and the sight that is used in first place. It kind like extremely unlikely both the starfleet officer investigation and that Starfleet officer that was try commit murder both control scaner in same area rifle to help move to it target. That piece evidence that scaner fit just to perfectly and both rifle should different areas were could control area looking into. We expect both rifle different areas on them be used for that. center of rifle not must effective area to put on first place anyway. Transpoter look identical as well came to rifle they at the same place they same type for that matter two rifle both starfleet killer and investigation us identical every possible way. Two rifle look the very same every part target systems to the were transporter was location and were place is evidence that stander issues. Even the scaner was the same for that matter.

None of that shows there is a conspiracy like you claim. YOu have failed to provide any evidence the characters lied, tried to hide anything, or anything sinister for that matter.

The sight was an off the shelf model anyone could get.

The weapon was just a random rifle model that just happened to have been designed by Star Fleet.

Anyone with the engineering background could have built and installed the transporter.

Everything looking like it was all suppose to work together is a sign of a job well done, and replicators make that rather easy.

One minor problem Chu'lak was science officer not a engineering officer. O Brian was a chief of operations or operations chief and was master in transporter technology. UFP does special train people operation transporters when they need do beyond transporter normal does for no reason. When USS Enterprise D chase Borg Cube best of both World it O Brian made change need so they could beam at top warp speed. O Brian skilled need allow USS Enterprise D beam that other starship shields it up. Chik lak science office not transporter chief. A moving bullet likley required transporter chief make change need order order all likelihood since bullet move at speed sound at least.

[359]

When USS Enterprise D chase Borg Cube best of both World it O Brian made change need so they could beam at top warp speed.

O'Brien never made any changes to the transporter in either of those two episodes.

O Brian skilled need allow USS Enterprise D beam that other starship shields it up.

The reason O'Brien was able to beam over in TNG: "The Wounded" was because he knew of a short window in which the Phoenix's shields were down for her sensors to be operational, which he was able to beam through.

One minor problem Chu'lak was science officer not a engineering officer. O Brian was a chief of operations or operations chief and was master in transporter technology. UFP does special train people operation transporters when they need do beyond transporter normal does for no reason.

Despite the above, I do not dispute that O'Brien was skilled with a transporter. Merely that no other intelligent officer, especially a science officer, would be capable of devising such a mechanism. Also, we do not know what Chu'lak's specialty is, or how extensive his knowledge of transporters is.

A moving bullet likley required transporter chief make change need order order all likelihood since bullet move at speed sound at least.

Why would a bullet be anymore difficult to transport than a human? Timing is not an issue as the whole process is controlled by a computer anyway. In TNG: "Datalore" Lore is firing a phaser while he is transported away, the phaser's beam is transported along with him, why would a bullet behave any different than any other matter in a transporter. The answer is: it wouldn't.

[Jasonb]

When USS Enterprise D chase Borg Cube best of both World it O Brian made change need so they could beam at top warp speed.

O'Brien never made any changes to the transporter in either of those two episodes.

O Brian skilled need allow USS Enterprise D beam that other starship shields it up.

The reason O'Brien was able to beam over in TNG: "The Wounded" was because he knew of a short window in which the Phoenix's shields were down for her sensors to be operational, which he was able to beam through.

One minor problem Chu'lak was science officer not a engineering officer. O Brian was a chief of operations or operations chief and was master in transporter technology. UFP does special train people operation transporters when they need do beyond transporter normal does for no reason.

Despite the above, I do not dispute that O'Brien was skilled with a transporter. Merely that no other intelligent officer, especially a science officer, would be capable of devising such a mechanism. Also, we do not know what Chu'lak's specialty is, or how extensive his knowledge of transporters is.

A moving bullet likley required transporter chief make change need order order all likelihood since bullet move at speed sound at least.

Why would a bullet be anymore difficult to transport than a human? Timing is not an issue as the whole process is controlled by a computer anyway. In TNG: "Datalore" Lore is firing a phaser while he is transported away, the phaser's beam is transported along with him, why would a bullet behave any different than any other matter in a transporter. The answer is: it wouldn't.

At least 23 century Pavel Chekov was only skill need beam people fall down vuclan from drill. In 24 century at least near warp or at warp you need O Brian only one able to do USS Enterprise D many people work transporter room. . So it goes down issue of speed.
So at least seem someone need well training. However point UFP just easily used phase weapon do the saem thing valued.

[Lucky]

One minor problem Chu'lak was science officer not a engineering officer. O Brian was a chief of operations or operations chief and was master in transporter technology. UFP does special train people operation transporters when they need do beyond transporter normal does for no reason. When USS Enterprise D chase Borg Cube best of both World it O Brian made change need so they could beam at top warp speed. O Brian skilled need allow USS Enterprise D beam that other starship shields it up. Chik lak science office not transporter chief. A moving bullet likley required transporter chief make change need order order all likelihood since bullet move at speed sound at least.

Being a science officer in no way prevents someone from having the engineering background needed. When it comes to Star Fleet they love cross training people, and we repeatedly see blue shirts working side by side with gold shirts. If Chu'lak was a medical officer you would have more of a point. Gunsmithing is something you could even learn as a hobby.

If O'Brian's skills were as special as you make them out to be he would not be on Deep Space 9. O'Brian is good, but still easily replaceable.

[Jasonb]

One minor problem Chu'lak was science officer not a engineering officer. O Brian was a chief of operations or operations chief and was master in transporter technology. UFP does special train people operation transporters when they need do beyond transporter normal does for no reason. When USS Enterprise D chase Borg Cube best of both World it O Brian made change need so they could beam at top warp speed. O Brian skilled need allow USS Enterprise D beam that other starship shields it up. Chik lak science office not transporter chief. A moving bullet likley required transporter chief make change need order order all likelihood since bullet move at speed sound at least.

Being a science officer in no way prevents someone from having the engineering background needed. When it comes to Star Fleet they love cross training people, and we repeatedly see blue shirts working side by side with gold shirts. If Chu'lak was a medical officer you would have more of a point. Gunsmithing is something you could even learn as a hobby.

Ok with fact beam phaser beam into room vaporize one should ask why even used rifle first place. What call again leave no evidnece a phaser rifle did the trick. Fact lack skill just mirco trasnptoer on phase rilfe is another piece evidence.

[Lucky]

Ok with fact beam phaser beam into room vaporize one should ask why even used rifle first place. What call again leave no evidnece a phaser rifle did the trick. Fact lack skill just mirco trasnptoer on phase rilfe is another piece evidence.

The only reason to use the rifle is style. The murderer was a serial killer, and they tend to have a way they go about the kill that is somewhat unique to that person, and is irrational.

[Picard]

It is actually safer to sit in your room and kill people without them knowing than to enter same room as victim.

[Jasonb]

It is actually safer to sit in your room and kill people without them knowing than to enter same room as victim.

Other one minor problem supposed believe UFP going design perfect assimilation weapon or weapon design sharpshooter alternative to hand phaser or phaser rifle. TR-116 Projectile Rifle as either sharp shooter weapon or assassination. Meaning if right or wrong is partice term irrelevant strong evidence MACO commando force still existing or something very much like it. Fact is design for sharp shooter. Deadly account smell pack of fire power deliver design fire like sharper shoot weapon. If O Brian or Sisko was tell true or not irrelevant factor as for scanner part it or not change much either case that rifle could blast right pipe it could blast thought wood wall to. Likely phaser verse of it to.

[Praeothmin]

God, I miss SWST...

At least, we could understand his arguments...

[359]

Other one minor problem supposed believe UFP going design perfect assimilation weapon or weapon design sharpshooter alternative to hand phaser or phaser rifle. TR-116 Projectile Rifle as either sharp shooter weapon or assassination.

Or is would be used as a rifle as its name implies. The Federation always tries for "the perfect design" in their stuff, just look at either a phaser or a tricorder, or anything else really. We hardly see technology in use by Starfleet which hasn't been engineered to function extremely well or in multiple ways.

Assimilation weapon? What is that?

Meaning if right or wrong is partice term irrelevant strong evidence MACO commando force still existing or something very much like it.

Why wouldn't a MACO like force exist. We do see ground combat in DS9, they weren't commandos, they were troops who were trained for combat. However, it is unlikely that the specific organization of MACO was still around. Special weapons tech will do nothing to prove that point, especially since it is not that special.

Fact is design for sharp shooter. Deadly account smell pack of fire power deliver design fire like sharper shoot weapon. If O Brian or Sisko was tell true or not irrelevant factor as for scanner part it or not change much either case that rifle could blast right pipe it could blast thought wood wall to. Likely phaser verse of it to.

We are never informed of it's standard ammo clip size, it is not necessarily that small.

[Lucky]

Why wouldn't a MACO like force exist. We do see ground combat in DS9, they weren't commandos, they were troops who were trained for combat. However, it is unlikely that the specific organization of MACO was still around. Special weapons tech will do nothing to prove that point, especially since it is not that special.

We see a total of about 1.5 ground battles if that many in Deep Space 9. We don't have a large enough sample size to say what normal Star Trek planet side warfare is like.

We do know that ground troops seem to have different uniforms then the Federation Star Fleet.

We hear about various vehicles like the Federation Hopper, Klingon armored devisions, and Cardassian AFV. We just never see them do to the budget being too small to be made for the show.

What we normally see are a bunch of sailors with the equivalent of pistols and rifles.

[Jasonb]

Other one minor problem supposed believe UFP going design perfect assimilation weapon or weapon design sharpshooter alternative to hand phaser or phaser rifle. TR-116 Projectile Rifle as either sharp shooter weapon or assassination.

Or is would be used as a rifle as its name implies. The Federation always tries for "the perfect design" in their stuff, just look at either a phaser or a tricorder, or anything else really. We hardly see technology in use by Starfleet which hasn't been engineered to function extremely well or in multiple ways.

Assimilation weapon? What is that?

Meaning if right or wrong is partice term irrelevant strong evidence MACO commando force still existing or something very much like it.

Why wouldn't a MACO like force exist. We do see ground combat in DS9, they weren't commandos, they were troops who were trained for combat. However, it is unlikely that the specific organization of MACO was still around. Special weapons tech will do nothing to prove that point, especially since it is not that special.

Fact is design for sharp shooter. Deadly account smell pack of fire power deliver design fire like sharper shoot weapon. If O Brian or Sisko was tell true or not irrelevant factor as for scanner part it or not change much either case that rifle could blast right pipe it could blast thought wood wall to. Likely phaser verse of it to.

We are never informed of it's standard ammo clip size, it is not necessarily that small.

We seen smell case that put single bullet contain easily hid someone hand. smell part surround by red stuff think blood.

Her picture of Dax load the gun
http://www.phasers.net/2370/tr-116-19.jpg

We also get blast though pipe during shot out between assimation and person hold gun.

In practice two major battle part get see foot soldiers tell next nothing UFP had MACO existed or not in two DS9 episodes.
Nor battle to strong MACO carry commandos raids take high priority targets. We never get see them one or other hardly argument.
As for other DS9 episode The Siege of AR-558 the fact they last six months such lower lose of life on UFP sides suggestion that MACO might have well something do that slow weaken until all killed off carry out commando raids.

As for Star Terk chain of command beyound fact Pircard was specilist in the type weapon try stop the Cardassion form us Worf pratice terms train close quater combat effective MACO and Dr Bevearly never made real sense it possible all three every area but combat were better train carry mission even MACO been.

[Lucky]

We seen smell case that put single bullet contain easily hid someone hand. smell part surround by red stuff think blood.

Her picture of Dax load the gun
http://www.phasers.net/2370/tr-116-19.jpg

We also get blast though pipe during shot out between assimation and person hold gun.

That picture tells us noting about how many cartridges the magazine can hold. From what I'm seeing the TR-116 might be able to hold the same payload as a M-1.
_____
The design of the TR-116 seems very similar in purpose to the M-1 or M-14. I'm not seeing an assassination weapon.