I challenge darkstar to a debate

[Admiral Breetai]

READ MY FUCKING POSTS IN MORE DETAIL.

I did you continue to claim a lie..assuming you aren't between bans right now

[

]I provided plenty of evidence to support it. But I'll post them again to get you to stop fucking flaming me everywhere, and some new ones as well.

I'm not flaming you..you have no concept just what I'm capable of when I have the mind to run a follower of mike wong off a forum..I'm being very nice to you compared to how I have conducted myself in the past against your kind.

1. The Death Star 2. Masses hundreds of billions of ISDs, made in secret, in the Outer Rim, in under a year.

nonsense made in several years was mostly hollow and was built by a tyrannical over lord who had unlimited control over his piggy bank and left much of the galaxy destitute and overrun by crime

2. The fact that, in a population of 100 quadrillion where starships are common enough for a down-on-his-luck smuggler to own a decent sized one, statistically speaking the galaxy's private sector must produce many, many trillions to keep up with demand.

100 quadrillion figure is not backed up by the movies or the cartoon series or the CGI series nor is it supported by much of the comics you so readily cling too

3. The fact that the WEG implies 1.6 million non destroyer vessels just in the sector fleet alone.

not supported by the highest canon and thus invalid

4. The amount of cargo shipping needed to supply Coruscant and the various other giant city-planets every day.

not applicable to a war time fleet

]5. The fact that a single decimal point error in the fiscal budget, according to Traviss, can make many thousands of Acclamator star destroyers.

wow you are citing Karen Travis despite bashing her constantly

6. The fact that the Star Wars: Complete Cross Sections quantifies the CIS as possessing millions of warships.

cite something that isn't officially sanctioned fanwank

Perhaps trillions is an exaggeration, since it's far much more than what would be needed. But billions of fighters is not unsupported, nor are millions of warships.

what a shame this never appeared in any higher canon

[sonofccn]

I did you continue to claim a lie..assuming you aren't between bans right now

Yeah he should be banned for about a month but I understand sometimes you got to vent right? :)

wow you are citing Karen Travis despite bashing her constantly

Well Mr. O first cited it to him through he did give me some quotes from one of her books about population resiestence.

[Admiral Breetai]

eah he should be banned for about a month but I understand sometimes you got to vent right? :)[]

I did not notice this..whoops

[KSW]

2. The fact that, in a population of 100 quadrillion where starships are common enough for a down-on-his-luck smuggler to own a decent sized one, statistically speaking the galaxy's private sector must produce many, many trillions to keep up with demand.

100 quadrillion figure is not backed up by the movies or the cartoon series or the CGI series nor is it supported by much of the comics you so readily cling too

I agree, in fact it's contrary to higher canon. From the ANH novelization:

Tarkin sighed reluctantly. "I am a dedicated man, and the pleasures I reserve for myself are few. One of them is that before your execution I should like you to be my guest at a small ceremony. It will certify this battle station's operational status while at the same time ushering in a new era of Imperial technical supremacy. This station is the final link in the new-forged Imperial chain which will bind the million systems of the galactic Empire together once and for all. Your petty Alliance will no longer be of any concern to us. After today's demonstration no one will dare to oppose Imperial decree, not even the Senate."

Even if there were truly a million inhabited systems in the empire, then a population of 100 quadrillion would come to a figure of 100 billion per planet. While this is conceivable for a wall-to-wall city-planet like Coruscant, I hardly think it likely for other places like Hoth, Tatooine or Dagobah, Bespin, or even Naboo.

[Admiral Breetai]

I agree, in fact it's contrary to higher canon. From the ANH novelization:

good excerpt there thank you

Even if there were truly a million inhabited systems in the empire, then a population of 100 quadrillion would come to a figure of 100 billion per planet. While this is conceivable for a wall-to-wall city-planet like Coruscant, I hardly think it likely for other places like Hoth, Tatooine or Dagobah, Bespin, or even Naboo.

Ord Mantell seems to be the capital of the bright jewell system which is the capital of the imperial oversector that Vaders massive fleet came from. It's a major imperial world and only has a population of one billion souls.

Malastare has two and a half..again another critical major world. Alsakan is a planetary city and it's population is in the low billions..it's also one of the wealthiest planets around and a major world.

it;'s very clear from canon the vast majority of the galactic population is concentrated in the expansion region and core, with curoscant likely having the bulk of the cores population on it.

like you said nothing supports a hundred quadrillion.

[Lucky]

I agree, in fact it's contrary to higher canon. From the ANH novelization:

good excerpt there thank you

Even if there were truly a million inhabited systems in the empire, then a population of 100 quadrillion would come to a figure of 100 billion per planet. While this is conceivable for a wall-to-wall city-planet like Coruscant, I hardly think it likely for other places like Hoth, Tatooine or Dagobah, Bespin, or even Naboo.

Ord Mantell seems to be the capital of the bright jewell system which is the capital of the imperial oversector that Vaders massive fleet came from. It's a major imperial world and only has a population of one billion souls.

Malastare has two and a half..again another critical major world. Alsakan is a planetary city and it's population is in the low billions..it's also one of the wealthiest planets around and a major world.

it;'s very clear from canon the vast majority of the galactic population is concentrated in the expansion region and core, with curoscant likely having the bulk of the cores population on it.

like you said nothing supports a hundred quadrillion.

StarWarsStarTrek is mistaking the possible population of the Star Wars Galaxy for the population of the Galactic Republic/Empire. It's a common mistake to think that the Galactic Republic and later Empire controlled the majority of the Galaxy.

[KSW]

I agree, in fact it's contrary to higher canon. From the ANH novelization:

good excerpt there thank you

Even if there were truly a million inhabited systems in the empire, then a population of 100 quadrillion would come to a figure of 100 billion per planet. While this is conceivable for a wall-to-wall city-planet like Coruscant, I hardly think it likely for other places like Hoth, Tatooine or Dagobah, Bespin, or even Naboo.

Ord Mantell seems to be the capital of the bright jewell system which is the capital of the imperial oversector that Vaders massive fleet came from. It's a major imperial world and only has a population of one billion souls.

Malastare has two and a half..again another critical major world. Alsakan is a planetary city and it's population is in the low billions..it's also one of the wealthiest planets around and a major world.

it;'s very clear from canon the vast majority of the galactic population is concentrated in the expansion region and core, with curoscant likely having the bulk of the cores population on it.

like you said nothing supports a hundred quadrillion.

I don't even know about Coruscant having 100 billion, since the galaxy is still in the agricultural stage, i.e. they have no replicators for their food and textiles, so they'd have to produce something in order to sustain their population-- either growing it on their own via farms, or trading for it with other planets; even if the planet was rich in some rare mineral they'd still have to mine it.

[Admiral Breetai]

I don't even know about Coruscant having 100 billion, since the galaxy is still in the agricultural stage, i.e. they have no replicators for their food and textiles, so they'd have to produce something in order to sustain their population-- either growing it on their own via farms, or trading for it with other planets; even if the planet was rich in some rare mineral they'd still have to mine it.

Coruscant is said to have a population in the trillions or more IIRC but considering they have to import water daily the thought of that population making sense is asinine.

a blockade of that planet would be a truly horrific sight you'd have mass starvation within days and a total collapse of everything else in a week or two...that planet if the numbers are accurate couldn't hope to withstand a siege at all

[Lucky]

I don't even know about Coruscant having 100 billion, since the galaxy is still in the agricultural stage, i.e. they have no replicators for their food and textiles, so they'd have to produce something in order to sustain their population-- either growing it on their own via farms, or trading for it with other planets; even if the planet was rich in some rare mineral they'd still have to mine it.

Coruscant is said to have a population in the trillions or more IIRC but considering they have to import water daily the thought of that population making sense is asinine.

a blockade of that planet would be a truly horrific sight you'd have mass starvation within days and a total collapse of everything else in a week or two...that planet if the numbers are accurate couldn't hope to withstand a siege at all

I seem to recall a quote that says Coruscant has a population of about 1 trillion, and the Republic has a population of trillions.

Anyway Coruscant doesn't make sense. There is no in universe reason for it.

[mojo]

I don't even know about Coruscant having 100 billion, since the galaxy is still in the agricultural stage, i.e. they have no replicators for their food and textiles, so they'd have to produce something in order to sustain their population-- either growing it on their own via farms, or trading for it with other planets; even if the planet was rich in some rare mineral they'd still have to mine it.

Coruscant is said to have a population in the trillions or more IIRC but considering they have to import water daily the thought of that population making sense is asinine.

a blockade of that planet would be a truly horrific sight you'd have mass starvation within days and a total collapse of everything else in a week or two...that planet if the numbers are accurate couldn't hope to withstand a siege at all

I seem to recall a quote that says Coruscant has a population of about 1 trillion, and the Republic has a population of trillions.

Anyway Coruscant doesn't make sense. There is no in universe reason for it.

what do you mean?

[Admiral Breetai]

what do you mean?

I don't know but my take on is technologically they cannot support a planet like that without enormous risk to sentient life and treasury, maintaining that beast, the ungodly billions or trillions of credits blown every month alone on maintaining a huge fleet to constantly make daily shipments of food and water, the burden of maintaining power for that sector the sheer amount of expenses going into just garbage disposal alone would probably exceed a dozen outer rim worlds entire planetary budget. I mean seriously and worse still the constant need to safeguard and protect hyper-routes going into the capital and out of it, because any delay of shipments of hell even water can cause the deaths of billions daily starting within two or three days of said delays. a fleet of security ships would have to be maintained to protect said routes and shipments because again even the slightest delay or error would cause hundreds of millions to begin dying within days to weeks.

to put in perspective city and private employee's hired to maintain buildings forget upgrades or new projects just keeping everything working would be a workforce larger than the entire Republic navy's roster of employee's for construction of it's grand fleet through out the entire clone wars. in the imperial era it would likely rival that of the Imperial manual labor force

I mean just the budget for police force alone would exceed the entire republic army (if several million clones was considered a great force and millions more would bankrupt the republic) and would likely in the imperial era rival or be comparable to again the total size of the imperial army. (I'm sure EU sources say otherwise well screw them their writers have no concept of scale )

this isn't even accounting for the software needed the trillions dumped into communications merely uniting all these city wide employee's so that they can call dispatch..and plan out routes and the like.

This isn't even factoring in the cost of Vehicles and equipment and other machinery. and this is the largest city world they have but the core is supposedly full of them Alsakan is one imagine the budget going to that.

Simply put- without replicators cheap and wide spread, transportation and advanced planetary engineering like the Feds have or the thousands of other more advance sci fi races out there...The GFFA realistically would not be able to do much of anything...they'd be locked in eternal stagnation and civil war and people like Palpatine would easily be able to take over and this would be directly because of monstrosities like Curoscant as much as anything else.

for Wars tech level the concept of the Galactic capital is just completely stupid and impossible to maintain without massively overtaxing the rest of the galaxy in an endless subsidiary and dependency type situation that would eventually cause a total collapse.

simply put for low tech sci fi : city planets = fail

[Lucky]

I seem to recall a quote that says Coruscant has a population of about 1 trillion, and the Republic has a population of trillions.

Anyway Coruscant doesn't make sense. There is no in universe reason for it.

what do you mean?

Coruscant is massively overpopulated.

Coruscant is massively overdeveloped.

Coruscant is a massive waste of resources.

Both the Republic and Empire had nearly empty planets all over the place.

Both the Republic and Empire had seemingly galaxy wide FTL communications. Telecommuting should not be an issue.

Hyperdrive should let you cross the galaxy in a few weeks at most if you need to go to a different planet.

So what logical reason is there for Coruscant? It's like those aliens from Invader Zim who worked themselves to death fitting Mars with giant engines to turn it into a ship because it was cool.

[mojo]

all of your points are valid.

but that WAS damn cool.

[mojo]

what do you mean?

I don't know but my take on is technologically they cannot support a planet like that without enormous risk to sentient life and treasury, maintaining that beast, the ungodly billions or trillions of credits blown every month alone on maintaining a huge fleet to constantly make daily shipments of food and water, the burden of maintaining power for that sector the sheer amount of expenses going into just garbage disposal alone would probably exceed a dozen outer rim worlds entire planetary budget. I mean seriously and worse still the constant need to safeguard and protect hyper-routes going into the capital and out of it, because any delay of shipments of hell even water can cause the deaths of billions daily starting within two or three days of said delays. a fleet of security ships would have to be maintained to protect said routes and shipments because again even the slightest delay or error would cause hundreds of millions to begin dying within days to weeks.

to put in perspective city and private employee's hired to maintain buildings forget upgrades or new projects just keeping everything working would be a workforce larger than the entire Republic navy's roster of employee's for construction of it's grand fleet through out the entire clone wars. in the imperial era it would likely rival that of the Imperial manual labor force

I mean just the budget for police force alone would exceed the entire republic army (if several million clones was considered a great force and millions more would bankrupt the republic) and would likely in the imperial era rival or be comparable to again the total size of the imperial army. (I'm sure EU sources say otherwise well screw them their writers have no concept of scale )

this isn't even accounting for the software needed the trillions dumped into communications merely uniting all these city wide employee's so that they can call dispatch..and plan out routes and the like.

This isn't even factoring in the cost of Vehicles and equipment and other machinery. and this is the largest city world they have but the core is supposedly full of them Alsakan is one imagine the budget going to that.

Simply put- without replicators cheap and wide spread, transportation and advanced planetary engineering like the Feds have or the thousands of other more advance sci fi races out there...The GFFA realistically would not be able to do much of anything...they'd be locked in eternal stagnation and civil war and people like Palpatine would easily be able to take over and this would be directly because of monstrosities like Curoscant as much as anything else.

for Wars tech level the concept of the Galactic capital is just completely stupid and impossible to maintain without massively overtaxing the rest of the galaxy in an endless subsidiary and dependency type situation that would eventually cause a total collapse.

simply put for low tech sci fi : city planets = fail

just out of curiosity - is there canon evidence of the need for daily water shipments? i mean, it makes some sense, but i don't remember ever hearing anyone talk about it.

[Admiral Breetai]

just out of curiosity - is there canon evidence of the need for daily water shipments? i mean, it makes some sense, but i don't remember ever hearing anyone talk about it.

yes there is, IIRC it's even mentioned in the wookiepedia article