I challenge darkstar to a debate

[mojo]

just out of curiosity - is there canon evidence of the need for daily water shipments? i mean, it makes some sense, but i don't remember ever hearing anyone talk about it.

yes there is, IIRC it's even mentioned in the wookiepedia article

thanks for replying so quickly. where is it in the films?

[Admiral Breetai]

thanks for replying so quickly. where is it in the films?

lucas hardly concerns himself with that "technical nonsense"

[mojo]

thanks for replying so quickly. where is it in the films?

lucas hardly concerns himself with that "technical nonsense"

yeah, he's too busy putting eyelids on ewoks and dealing with major ethical quandaries like, 'if you know someone is going to sell you for a bounty, virtually guaranteeing your death, is it self-defense to shoot that person before they can do it,' and apparently answering himself with 'no.'
i didn't mean to step on your toes, man. it's just that you usually stick with the films so i assumed it must be in there. like i said, it makes sense. but are there any other sources you're aware of aside from the wookiepedia article?
and while i absolutely agree with every single point you and lucky make about the nonsensical logic of coruscant, the prequel trilogy doesn't seem to show it as having any problems maintaining or policing itself at least insofar as what we see. not exactly ironclad evidence obviously, but i never even would have considered the possibility that it was a problem if you guys hadn't brought it up. maybe my suspension of disbelief is ratcheted up too high.
also, while i know you don't especially like it, i've read a pretty good portion of the eu novels, and as far as i recall, coruscant is thought of as a damn good place to live. practically the entire cast of the movies live there and there's no mention of these issues.
i guess what i'm asking is whether you and lucky are arguing that these problems exist and we just don't see them, or that these problems SHOULD exist given the absurdity of the concept but do not? because it seems to me that star wars is basically just a huge pile of absurd concepts that fall apart when analyzed.

[Admiral Breetai]

Curoscant is a good place to live mojo it's the elite of the universe the crem de la crem prior to the Vong raping it of course. Even with these problems and considering the attitude of the writers the characters themselves likely wont comment on the matter. As far as technical sources that the article cited when it mentioned this again..the vast majority of the writers GL included will summarily ignore this. to my knowledge This hasn't come up during a major blockade for reasons that utterly escape me.

As for the movies no I don't recall any source directly stating this but it's obvious i mean when you consider the average population of most major galactic worlds and then the normal poor house planets, the fact that they really aren't all that advanced and refugee ships seemed to be commonplace through out the prequel movies and it paints the picture of a Galaxy basically scraping to the bone to support the beast that is the core sector.

I mean really moisture farmers..

[Lucky]

Curoscant is a good place to live mojo it's the elite of the universe the crem de la crem prior to the Vong raping it of course. Even with these problems and considering the attitude of the writers the characters themselves likely wont comment on the matter. As far as technical sources that the article cited when it mentioned this again..the vast majority of the writers GL included will summarily ignore this. to my knowledge This hasn't come up during a major blockade for reasons that utterly escape me.

As for the movies no I don't recall any source directly stating this but it's obvious i mean when you consider the average population of most major galactic worlds and then the normal poor house planets, the fact that they really aren't all that advanced and refugee ships seemed to be commonplace through out the prequel movies and it paints the picture of a Galaxy basically scraping to the bone to support the beast that is the core sector.

I mean really moisture farmers..

Don't Padme's handmaidens live in the slums?

[Admiral Breetai]

Don't Padme's handmaidens live in the slums?

did they? that's hilarious I know Nabuu had refuges flooding it given how Padme and anakin went home

[Lucky]

Don't Padme's handmaidens live in the slums?

did they? that's hilarious I know Nabuu had refuges flooding it given how Padme and anakin went home

When are we shown refuges coming to Naboo?

I was talking about Padme's handmaidens on Coruscant seemingly living in slums. I might be wrong about that.

The Republic paid for all the utilities, schooling, and a bleep load of other stuff for the people of Coruscant, and it seems like the citizens could not afford them otherwise.

[Admiral Breetai]

When are we shown refuges coming to Naboo?

AOTC it was either a refuge ship or a very low class freighter carrying people from curoscant

which is a telling thing and seemed to imply people are constantly running from the planet

I was talking about Padme's handmaidens on Coruscant seemingly living in slums. I might be wrong about that.

oh possibly

The Republic paid for all the utilities, schooling, and a bleep load of other stuff for the people of Coruscant, and it seems like the citizens could not afford them otherwise.

they can't even maintain a sizable army..or keep their house clean but they are subsidizing a monstrosity like curo? wow..no wonder why they have so many problems

[User2531]

Uh, darkstar, did you read the part where in the example where I stated that the blaster makes large holes in stuff that is not organic, but when hitting soldiers it creates smaller holes? Logic would determine that said soldiers had body armor. If they only were shown hitting soldiers and making small holes, then logically the blasters made small holes.

Fine then, though. Since you seem to be so desperate to not include C canon, for this debate we'll only include G canon. But there's a compromise. That means also no T canon either. Deal?

to nitpick, but blasters have been portrayed as comparable to live amunition, now when bullets hit somthing, they deform, morso with somthing "inorganic" as you say, and this deformation will create more force distributed over a wider area, but less damage at any single point of impact. wheres hit organic matter, the bullet will still deform but to a lesser degree, thus it will pierce more and deliver more damage at the single point of impact, with far less 'splash damage' if you can call it that'. to support this, notice how when bullets are fired in water, they do not pierce, but deform on impact, creating large ripples and splash, but little damage at point of impact, whereas this is lesser so on said 'soldiers' as the bullets pierce comparitevely more, but still not the the degree of arrows, which by the way if you fire an arrow into the water it will pierce the water, you can hunt fish this way in relatively shallow water and visability, as arrows essentially do not deform on impact, they pierce

[Admiral Breetai]

lol wooowww SWST just wow

[StarWarsStarTrek]

And is overruled by ROTJ's scroll. From the movie Return of the Jedi, another one you don't seem to have watched.
Not to say, again, that the battle station was not completed (but I'm just repeating myself here).

You can easily rationalize the two as the difference between working on a project and actually building it, but it hardly matters, because a Death Star in two years instead of six months doesn't bode any better for your Federation at all. Now we're just arguing over exactly how badly it gets spanked.

Nope. The Emperor will go for battle stations. Because he's the Emperor, that's all.

What wonderful reasoning.

And if you remove him, then it's not the Empire anymore and the whole structure topples.
Besides, you can't have 7 Death Stars within a decade. Don't be stupid.

Palpatine had the industrial rate increased ten times and yet the DSII wasn't finished. Such a massive strain must have taken an obvious toll on the entire Empire's budgetary might.

Fuck your "obvious". It was constructed in secret, the galaxy did not implode into poverty as a result of it.

A single Death Star 2 still outmasses the entire Federation fleet by trillions of times.

The same budget that nearly got broke because of clone troopers some decades ago, and almost ran into a wall because of the sole Imperial Star Destroyer project.

Not just the clone troopers, but also the draftees from across the galaxy that I have provided to you, or the many uknown numbers of Acclamators and other warships.

People generally buy tickets for that. Just like Padmé and Anakin did to go to Naboo "undercover".
Ooh, another of SWS524JKT's points that went down with a fancy noise.

You mean the same Padme that HAS HER OWN STARSHIP? You mean like Dash Rendar, a broke smuggler who could afford a sizeable starship as well?

Like, you still don't get it. You can't rest your case with people "generally" taking rides even if you can prove it. You have to prove that 99.999999999% or even more of these people don't own a personal starship AND that for every million people...there is a single passenger ship.

[Mr. Oragahn]

And is overruled by ROTJ's scroll. From the movie Return of the Jedi, another one you don't seem to have watched.
Not to say, again, that the battle station was not completed (but I'm just repeating myself here).

You can easily rationalize the two as the difference between working on a project and actually building it

I doubt that. Or you'll have to be much clearer.

but it hardly matters, because a Death Star in two years instead of six months doesn't bode any better for your Federation at all. Now we're just arguing over exactly how badly it gets spanked.

It will be a problem, but then the Death Star II won't be worth a nut without proper hyperspace lanes. It will be as fast in ST galaxy as the new lanes permit it. Obviously, the state of war will hardly help in the stability of said lanes and their proper updating.

Nope. The Emperor will go for battle stations. Because he's the Emperor, that's all.

What wonderful reasoning.

He had plenty of occasions to refocus on a traditional fleet, yet he always went for big toys and plenty of battle stations. Such are his ways.

And if you remove him, then it's not the Empire anymore and the whole structure topples.
Besides, you can't have 7 Death Stars within a decade. Don't be stupid.

Palpatine had the industrial rate increased ten times and yet the DSII wasn't finished. Such a massive strain must have taken an obvious toll on the entire Empire's budgetary might.

Fuck your "obvious". It was constructed in secret, the galaxy did not implode into poverty as a result of it.

You know that how? He couldn't do what he wanted either, since the galaxy was crawling with Rebels and spies. This forced the Empire to isolate the construction and use cunning to avoid people from joining the dots regarind the destination of this or that.
Does it matter much? We know he couldn't have the Empire go faster anyway.

A single Death Star 2 still outmasses the entire Federation fleet by trillions of times.

And it was downed by stuff massing the equivalent of five buses.

The same budget that nearly got broke because of clone troopers some decades ago, and almost ran into a wall because of the sole Imperial Star Destroyer project.

Not just the clone troopers, but also the draftees from across the galaxy that I have provided to you, or the many uknown numbers of Acclamators and other warships.

From TCWS, I only recall the clone troopers being the sole problem in the budget, not some draftees or unknown Acclamators.
I don't remember that you provided any evidence of what you claim to me, btw. Would you mind linking to your post?

People generally buy tickets for that. Just like Padmé and Anakin did to go to Naboo "undercover".
Ooh, another of SWS524JKT's points that went down with a fancy noise.

You mean the same Padme that HAS HER OWN STARSHIP? You mean like Dash Rendar, a broke smuggler who could afford a sizeable starship as well?

Like, you still don't get it. You can't rest your case with people "generally" taking rides even if you can prove it. You have to prove that 99.999999999% or even more of these people don't own a personal starship AND that for every million people...there is a single passenger ship.

You'll have to refresh my memory on what the initial point was. You can't hope making a point by quoting a sentence out of its context while replying to a post which I suppose is already over a month old.

[Admiral Breetai]

Fuck your "obvious". It was constructed in secret, the galaxy did not implode into poverty as a result of it.]

umm what? The Empire was so utterly crippled by the fiasco at Endor that merely the fall of Palpy and his gigantic space ball essentially destroyed it..it ceased to exist entirely in a matter of hours. so much so partying took place on the imperial capital where they threw down his statues

now the empire still had a navy and an army..yet it entirely ceased to exist in a single moment..obviously the DS construction so financially crippled them that simply mobilizing forces to put down riots was impossible

hell local imperial cops couldn't even be dispatched..and don't gimme that EU bullshit about the empire still existing and a decades long war to crush it..that's pure non canon and directly contradicts that scene

A single Death Star 2 still outmasses the entire Federation fleet by trillions of times.

do you need windex to clean off your computer screen? maybe a few minutes alone to finish up after that one?

[Picard]

Breetai, cut him some slack - you could have noticed by now that he simply likes to throw random orders of magnitude around without having any idea what he is talking about, so let him have some fun. ;-)

You can easily rationalize the two as the difference between working on a project and actually building it, but it hardly matters, because a Death Star in two years instead of six months doesn't bode any better for your Federation at all. Now we're just arguing over exactly how badly it gets spanked.

And Federation starship launches a photon torpedo that simply punches its way throught Death Star and to its reactor. Or, since you like using fanon so much, Federation brings out Phased Plasma Torpedo that simply flies throught Death Star and explodes at reactor.

You mean the same Padme that HAS HER OWN STARSHIP?

You mean same Padme that IS HEAD OF A STATE AND LATER A REPRESENTATIVE IN QUITE CORRUPT GOVERNMENT?

And SWST, regarding your "trillions of times"...

Intrepid class starship masses 700 000 metric tons, or 700 000 000 kg.

Starfleet has 6 000 capital ships at least. Lets assume 500 000 metric tons per ship average - Intrepid class was lighter than other classes of comparable size.

One trillion = 1 x 10e12

6 000 capships x 500 000 t = 3 000 000 000 metric tons. Or 3 x 10e9 t.

Death Star II has diameter of 180 km. That is volume of 3 032 628 km^2. Assuming density of 2000 kg/m^2 (based on data from Darkstar's starship volumetrics page) we get 6.065 x 10e18 kg. Which is 2 021 752 000 times more than entire Starfleet tonnage in starships.

So, next time, please say "billions" of times. It doesn't make large difference to the point you are making, and is actually supportable.

However, it should be noted that, while Empire didn't seem to have any space stations aside for Death Stars, Starfleets space stations might make, as a wild guess, Starfleet's total tonnage two to twenty times greater.

[Praeothmin]

However, it should be noted that, while Empire didn't seem to have any space stations aside for Death Stars, Starfleets space stations might make, as a wild guess, Starfleet's total tonnage two to twenty times greater.

But then you'd have to add the Empire's ships as well, so we'd be back at the same point...