Starfleet Jedi

Maybe you can help me.

I have read, that in the EU, there is something called Kuat Drive Yards. According to some EU sources - especially the Star Wars: Complete Cross-Sections, written by David West Reynolds and Dr. Curtis Saxton - who have invented it and are referring to it, Kuat Drive Yards or KDY was the largest military shipbuilding corporation in the galaxy. Allegedly Kuat Drive Yards have build all the Imperial Capital ships, that were shown in the first trilogy: Star Destroyers and the Super Star Destroyer.

But I can't reconcile that with what Han Solo has said in Star Wars: A New Hope:

• • HAN: I've outrun Imperial starships. Not the local bulk-cruisers, mind you. I'm talking about the big Corellian ships now.

But what ships has he meant?

In consideration of the fact that we have only seen Star Destroyers and the Super Star Destroyer as big ships of the Empire, I can only conclude, that he has meant these.

And that would make sense because these ships are the trademark ships of the Empire.

• • • The Imperial-class Star Destroyers, along with Imperial stormtroopers, represented the might of the Imperial Military throughout the galaxy during the reign of the Galactic Empire.

Insofar it is implausible, that Han could have referred to another ship class. He wanted to impress Ben and Luke. And for that, he would have to give an example, which are of use for both of them. Referring to a possibly unknown ship class or a minor ship class wouldn't help him to get it across.

But if he has referred to the Star Destroyers and the Super Star Destroyer as big Corellian ships, what could he have meant?

Why would he call them Corellian ships?

He couldn't have meant, that they belong to Corellia because he has made it clear, that he considered them as Imperial ships.

And he couldn't have referred to their class because we know the classes of the ships in question. And it is not the Corellian class.

Insofar, I see only another plausible possibility: He has referred to their manufacturer. He has called them Corellian ships because these big ships are manufactured by the Corellians.

But that would mean, that these ships are not manufactured by Kuat Drive Yards and that, if that information is wrong, all informations concerning Kuat Drive Yards are compromised.

What are your thoughts?

What do you think, Han has meant?

That's just the EU not paying attention to the films.
I'm not sure who came with KDY first, maybe West End Games, which for all the fire and crap they get, did a big and enjoyable job.

The prequel movies (not the novelization, notably written by some in the scope of infusing the G canon with EU elements) have remained silent on the origin of those ships.

Thus far, they're made in the Republic/Empire, and that's all.

To tie this all, a new Clone Wars episode would involve the CIS trying to assault the Republic shipyards at Corellia, and we'd see that KDY posses several shipyards, but makes most of its destroyers at Corellia, or something in that style.

Of course in the movies, I don't think we even had confirmation about what Corellian meant. It could be absolutely anything.

There are several instances in the EU where it is shown that NOT all of the ISDs were made by Kuat Drive Yards. For instance, there are the Bilbringi Shipyards which make ISDs and other capital ships(frigates and corvettes) for the Empire. The SSDs were definitely made by the KDY, however. So he definitely was not referring to them.

We must remember two things here:
1. Han is Corellian. He would naturally throw out an example of his homeworld for sentimental reasons. Also, in the EU, it has been established that Corellia had one of the biggest planetary defense fleets not controlled by the Empire. So, it IS plausible (when fusing EU and movie info together) that he was referring to the Corellian Defense Ffeet ships.

2. The Empire required all planets with a planetary navy to surrender over half of the fleet to the Empire. It is possible that Corellia had m any ISDs made for defense of their own planet, and had to give the majority of them to the Empire. Han, being Corellian, would naturally refer to these ships as still being Corellian.

For an example of this happening in the EU, before Han was a smuggler he was in the Corellian military. The Empire enlisted the ship that Han was on into the Imperial Navy and Han became an Imp. officer. A major, if I remember correctly.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:There are several instances in the EU where it is shown that NOT all of the ISDs were made by Kuat Drive Yards. For instance, there are the Bilbringi Shipyards which make ISDs and other capital ships(frigates and corvettes) for the Empire. The SSDs were definitely made by the KDY, however. So he definitely was not referring to them.

We must remember two things here:
1. Han is Corellian. He would naturally throw out an example of his homeworld for sentimental reasons. Also, in the EU, it has been established that Corellia had one of the biggest planetary defense fleets not controlled by the Empire. So, it IS plausible (when fusing EU and movie info together) that he was referring to the Corellian Defense Ffeet ships.

2. The Empire required all planets with a planetary navy to surrender over half of the fleet to the Empire. It is possible that Corellia had m any ISDs made for defense of their own planet, and had to give the majority of them to the Empire. Han, being Corellian, would naturally refer to these ships as still being Corellian.

For an example of this happening in the EU, before Han was a smuggler he was in the Corellian military. The Empire enlisted the ship that Han was on into the Imperial Navy and Han became an Imp. officer. A major, if I remember correctly.

That doesn't work. He speaks of Imperial ships, and precisely rejects the local bulk cruisers.

Mitigating factors:
The MF didn't outrun ISDs on sublight drives, maybe he talked about FTL.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:There are several instances in the EU where it is shown that NOT all of the ISDs were made by Kuat Drive Yards. For instance, there are the Bilbringi Shipyards which make ISDs and other capital ships(frigates and corvettes) for the Empire.

If I understand Wookieepedia correct, the Bilbringi Shipyards have only started to build Star Destroyers after the Galactic Empire has collapsed and the Kuat Drive Yards were lost to the Imperial Remnant. Before the Battle of Endor, the Kuat Drive Yards were an independent company and as such would have the patents for the there developed and build ships. They wouldn't allow, that other Imperial yards are infringing their patents and, as it seems, there were a patent law in the Galactic Empire [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Special: ... atent&go=1].

But even if, that's only one example. But you have said, that there several instances.

Can you name instances in the EU, where it is explicit shown, that other yards have build Imperial Star Destroyers before the Battle of Endor?

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:1. Han is Corellian. He would naturally throw out an example of his homeworld for sentimental reasons. Also, in the EU, it has been established that Corellia had one of the biggest planetary defense fleets not controlled by the Empire. So, it IS plausible (when fusing EU and movie info together) that he was referring to the Corellian Defense Fleet ships.

2. The Empire required all planets with a planetary navy to surrender over half of the fleet to the Empire. It is possible that Corellia had many ISDs made for defense of their own planet, and had to give the majority of them to the Empire. Han, being Corellian, would naturally refer to these ships as still being Corellian.

For an example of this happening in the EU, before Han was a smuggler he was in the Corellian military. The Empire enlisted the ship that Han was on into the Imperial Navy and Han became an Imp. officer. A major, if I remember correctly.

That's not plausible.

For all Han has known, Ben and Luke were simply two backwoodsman from Tatooine, who wanted to fly to Alderaan. He knew, that they wanted to avoid any imperial entanglements, but he has not known, that these two were hotter than he thought.

He wanted to impress them. To achieve that, he would have to use ships, from which he can assume, that they are known to them.

That means, that he couldn't have meant ships from the fleet of one single world because he could not be sure, that this world is known to these backwoodsman from Tatooine.

The Galactic Empire's territory at its peak consisted of over one million member worlds and fifty million colonies, protectorates, and governorships throughout the galaxy stretching from the borders of the Deep Core to Wild Space - according to Wookieepedia.

• (Today, there are 193 nations on Earth. I'm pretty sure, that you are not able to name only half of them. Now imagine over one million member worlds. One single world is insignificant at such numbers and with a high probability unknown to two backwoodsman from Tatooine.)
  
  And certainly it would not only be known to them because it is his home world. Neither Luke nor Ben could have known, that Corellia is Han's home world. He looks like any other human being and in Star Wars, human beings are originating from many different worlds.

No, to impress them, he would have to refer to something both know.

The only way, that two backwoodsman from Tatooine could know Corellian ships as such is, that they are the trademark ships of the Empire, used throughout the galaxy.

And used and therefore known throughout the galaxy is the Imperial Star Destroyer and not some ships from a fleet of one of one million worlds, which may be used by the Empire but not throughout the galaxy.

That means, that only the Imperial Star Destroyer could also be known throughout the galaxy as a Corellian ship.

And that means, that Imperial Star Destroyers are Corellian ships.

I may have been thinking of the Imperial Remnant instead of the Galactic Empire, that is my mistake.

I just found this page, which says that those ships have never been shown in the movies or in the EU. Which I can understand. We don't see much of the Imperial Navy in the original Trilogy, the space battles were always focusing upon the starfighters and the ISDs, and not much else. I mean, it IS highly unlikely that an entire Navy would consist of only one type of ship. Weaknesses would be too easy to find and exploit. Here is the page:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Corellian-class_cruiser

Also, I am aware that Ben and Luke aren't familiar with Han's planet of origin, however, it isn't unreasonable since it is a core world and very near the Imperial capital. It also isn't unreasonable that Han would just assume that they are familiar with Corellia, it IS an important planet and Han is rather cocky and a bit big-headed. Individuals do this all the time.

Here is a page with every ship class that has ever been used in the Imperial Navy, from its inception to 131 years after Endor. It may be useful in later debates.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial ... attleships

I'm sorry, but that does not convince me.




As you are saying yourself, if we assume, that the Imperial Star Destroyers and the Super Star Destroyer are no Corellian ships, then there were no Corellian ships shown in the movies or even mentioned in the EU at all.

That would mean that Corellian ships are not a trademark ship of the Empire

• but only a ship from one world, build for their defence fleet and later surrendered to the Imperial navy
• or a ship from one world produced for the empire, but in relative low numbers so that it could never have gotten the trademark ship of the empire and has remained fameless compared to the Imperial Star Destroyers.

In both cases, Han would have to assume, that two backwoodsman from Tatooine have never heard from Corellian ships.

You are saying, that, because Han is coming from Corellia, he has mentioned these ships out of pride. But that does not makes sense. If he has to assume that Ben and Luke does not even know Corellian ships, he would know and understand, that the mentioning of these ships would be meaningless to them. And that would mean, that he can't impress them by comparing the speed of the Falcon with the unknown speed of an unknown ship. That applies a fortiori if Corellian ships are coming from a Core World and are - because their low numbers - unlikely to be encountered in the Outer Rim.

And Han has never mentioned Corellia or something coming from Corellia in the movies again. He does not seems to be the guy, who has strong ties to its home world. Yes, he is a proud man, but not necessary proud to be a Corellian, especially if Corellia has surrendered half of its defence fleet to the Imperial Navy.




I think, it is more plausible to assume, that these "Imperial Star Destroyers" are the Corellian Ships.

One has to consider, that neither in the movies nor in their novelizations, a class name for the ships were mentioned as such. The class name »Imperial Star Destroyer« is coming from the EU.

George Lucas seems to think, that the term Star Destroyer is not referring to a class but to a type of ship. He has even called General Grievous's ship a Star Destroyer (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Des ... the_scenes).

Insofar, if in the movies, someone has said »Star Destroyer«, he does not necessary has meant a class, but a type of ship. And »Super Star Destroyer« would be another, a greater type of ship.

The form of the ship would be irrelevant. Relevant would be the size and maybe the abilities of a ship to be called a Star Destroyer.

That »Imperial« before the »Star Destroyer« would only indicate its allegiance: There are »Imperial Star Destroyers« and »Trade Federation Star Destroyers« and »CIS Star Destroyers« and »New Republic Star Destroyers«. That's not a class, but a type of ship and there can be several classes, that can be that type of ship.

That means, that there can be also several classes, that are Imperial Star Destroyers and that the Corellian Ships, ships produced on Corellia, is one class of them.

• • • Indeed, every dagger-shaped warship, that the EU authors have invented (Victory class Star Destroyer, Venator-class Star Destroyer, Pellaeon-class Star Destroyer, Turbulent-class Star Destroyer, Tector-class Star Destroyer, Shockwave-class Star Destroyer, Republic-class Star Destroyer, Rejuvenator-class Star Destroyer, ...) is, regardless of its class, always also a Imperial ship or a Imperial Star Destroyer.

The Imperial Star Destroyers, we have seen in the movies, the ships, that are the trademark ship of the Empire, ships that were gathered at Endor to destroy the Alliance, a very important battle, are ships, that are build on Corellia and are therfore either called Corellian ships due to their origin or because that is their ship class.

That would mean, that there is no ship class »Imperial Star Destroyer« as lazy EU-authors have invented it.

And that would mean, that the Star Destroyers, we have seen in the movies, are not build on Kuat Drive Yards but on Corellia.

I think I may have a possible answer to why the EU authors would have thought of the Corellian ships and Imperial ships as separate. In the ANH novelization on page 101, the novelization's version of the same scene goes thus:

"It's the ship that made the Kessel run in less than twelve standard timeparts!" Solo told him indignantly.
"I've outrun Imperial starships and Corellian cruisers. I think she's fast enough for you, old man." His outrage subsided rapidly. "What's your cargo?"

Please take note of the emphasized wording there. This version clearly is very different from the movie. Unlike other passages that add explanation to what characters in the movie are saying or intend to say, it clearly contradicts it with the bulk cruisers being melded in part with Corellian ships, while Imperial starships are being given completely seperate status.
-Mike

You have made an assumption that we see no Corellian made ships, that is not true. We see corellian corvettes in ANH and ROJ. Tantive IV is a modified corellian corvette. Based on the engineering of these ships, the Star Destroyers cannot be corellian. The engineering style is completely different. The weapons emplacements are even different. They use different styles of weapons.

Han Solo is not as coldly calculating as you make him out to be. Watch the movies. He is always going off half-cocked and spouting dribble out of his mouth. He is not very intelligent, and very reckless. He is a dirty smuggler, why would he care what they did or did not know? They were potential customers and he said what he had to to bag them. Also, would Han Solo not have said "I can outrun from Star Destroyers!", if he wanted to impress them? According to your interpretation of Han Solos thinking Luke and Ben to be "backwoodsmen"(on a desert planet, btw), why would he assume that they knew where the Star Destroyers were made? They are not Imperials and as you(WILGA) have said, there is no proof that they know where Corellia is. No, he would not have named the manufacturer unless he had more information(or was spouting of prideful dribble) and knew that they would recognize it. If he were talking about the Star Destroyers, he would definitely have mentioned them by name, as you have said, they are what the Imperial Navy was known for.

Using that information, we have to assume that these Corellian ships, are in fact, NOT the Star Destroyers.

Mike DiCenso wrote:I think I may have a possible answer to why the EU authors would have thought of the Corellian ships and Imperial ships as separate. In the ANH novelization on page 101, the novelization's version of the same scene goes thus:

"It's the ship that made the Kessel run in less than twelve standard timeparts!" Solo told him indignantly.
"I've outrun Imperial starships and Corellian cruisers. I think she's fast enough for you, old man." His outrage subsided rapidly. "What's your cargo?"

Please take note of the emphasized wording there. This version clearly is very different from the movie. Unlike other passages that add explanation to what characters in the movie are saying or intend to say, it clearly contradicts it with the bulk cruisers being melded in part with Corellian ships, while Imperial starships are being given completely seperate status.
-Mike

I should point out that this novelization was written George Lucas in 1976, one year before the release of ANH. I own a copy.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote: I should point out that this novelization was written George Lucas in 1976, one year before the release of ANH. I own a copy.

More correctly, it was ghost written by Alan Dean Foster and published in December 1976. The movies have a higher level of canonicity in the official hierarchy.
-Mike

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:You have made an assumption that we see no Corellian made ships, that is not true. We see corellian corvettes in ANH and ROJ. Tantive IV is a modified corellian corvette. Based on the engineering of these ships, the Star Destroyers cannot be corellian. The engineering style is completely different. The weapons emplacements are even different. They use different styles of weapons.

That Tantive IV is a modified corellian corvette is again of EU origin. AFAIK that was not established in the movies nor their novelizations but by the Star Wars Sourcebook, a sourcebook written by Bill Slavicsek and Curtis Smith, that was first published November 1987 by West End Games.

Considering that similar ships were used already before the Clone Wars by Alderaan, the correctness of that is doubtfull.

Assuming that Alderaan, because it is - respective was - also an important Core World, could manufacture its own ships, Tantive IV would be an Alderaan corvette.

But Han has especially spoken of »big Corellian ships«. And Tantive IV is with 125 m length not a big ship.

And, as it seems, it was not fast enough to outdistance a Imperial Star Destroyer.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:Han Solo is not as coldly calculating as you make him out to be. Watch the movies. He is always going off half-cocked and spouting dribble out of his mouth. He is not very intelligent, and very reckless. He is a dirty smuggler, why would he care what they did or did not know? They were potential customers and he said what he had to to bag them.

But he is not stupid either. He would know what can impress two backwoodsmen of Tatooine and what not. And it is not as though as if he wouldn't have other possibilities.

Fact is, he wanted to impress two people, from which he had to assume, that they didn't know much about the world outside from Tatooine, two people, who would know only the most famous ships in the galaxy, if at all. That's why he would choose a ship class that is famous to be sure that both have heard of it.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:Also, would Han Solo not have said "I can outrun from Star Destroyers!", if he wanted to impress them?

According to my interpretation, a Star Destroyer doesn't have to be fast. They have to be big and strong. There can be Star Destroyer classes, that are fast and other Star Destroyer classes can be slow. You would have to name a certain class. And that is, what Han has done: He has meant the Star Destroyers of the Corellian class or at least the Star Destroyers build on Corellia.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:According to your interpretation of Han Solos thinking Luke and Ben to be "backwoodsmen"(on a desert planet, btw), why would he assume that they knew where the Star Destroyers were made? They are not Imperials and as you(WILGA) have said, there is no proof that they know where Corellia is. No, he would not have named the manufacturer unless he had more information(or was spouting of prideful dribble) and knew that they would recognize it. If he were talking about the Star Destroyers, he would definitely have mentioned them by name, as you have said, they are what the Imperial Navy was known for.

According to my interpretation, the Star Destroyers of the Corellian class or the Star Destroyers build on Corellia (in the EU called »Imperial Star Destroyer«) are, because they are used by the Empire throughout the galaxy, famous enough to be known by two backwoodsmen of Tatooine.

I think, your problem is, that you know the EU too well. You can't see the movies without thinking of the background informations the EU is supplying you with.

You have to try to forget the EU and its informations. Then see the movie and try to interpret it. Then you will see, that the most plausible interpretation is, that Han has meant with »big Corellian ships« the ships, we have seen throughout the first three movies. These ships were also called »Star Destroyers« - but only as a type of ship and not as a class. And when someone has said »Imperial Star Destroyers«, that someone wanted to imply only its allegiance.

Maybe it be easier to understand if you look again at the class name »Imperial Star Destroyer«: If we assume, that this is indeed a class name, how wuld it be called, if a ship of that class would be owned by another fraction and its allegiance has to be made clear? A »New Republic Imperial Star Destroyer«? And if it is still owned by the Imperial Navy, would it be a »Imperial Imperial Star Destroyer«? You see, that it is absurd. Nobody compos mentis would name a ship class with terms, that are indicating an allegiance.

That's why it was absurd from some stupid EU authors to assume, that, when someone has called the seen ships »Imperial Star Destroyers« that this someone wanted th refer to their class and not to the type of ship and its allegiance.

It is as if one would say today instead of »Imperial Star Destroyers, two of them, coming right at us.« »American frigates, two of them, coming right at us.« or »American Aircraft carrier, two of them, coming right at us.«

Who is like God arbour wrote:

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:You have made an assumption that we see no Corellian made ships, that is not true. We see corellian corvettes in ANH and ROJ. Tantive IV is a modified corellian corvette. Based on the engineering of these ships, the Star Destroyers cannot be corellian. The engineering style is completely different. The weapons emplacements are even different. They use different styles of weapons.

That Tantive IV is a modified corellian corvette is again of EU origin. AFAIK that was not established in the movies nor their novelizations but by the Star Wars Sourcebook, a sourcebook written by Bill Slavicsek and Curtis Smith, that was first published November 1987 by West End Games.

Considering that similar ships were used already before the Clone Wars by Alderaan, the correctness of that is doubtfull.

Assuming that Alderaan, because it is - respective was - also an important Core World, could manufacture its own ships, Tantive IV would be an Alderaan corvette.

But Han has especially spoken of »big Corellian ships«. And Tantive IV is with 125 m length not a big ship.

And, as it seems, it was not fast enough to outdistance a Imperial Star Destroyer.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:Han Solo is not as coldly calculating as you make him out to be. Watch the movies. He is always going off half-cocked and spouting dribble out of his mouth. He is not very intelligent, and very reckless. He is a dirty smuggler, why would he care what they did or did not know? They were potential customers and he said what he had to to bag them.

But he is not stupid either. He would know what can impress two backwoodsmen of Tatooine and what not. And it is not as though as if he wouldn't have other possibilities.

Fact is, he wanted to impress two people, from which he had to assume, that they didn't know much about the world outside from Tatooine, two people, who would know only the most famous ships in the galaxy, if at all. That's why he would choose a ship class that is famous to be sure that both have heard of it.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:Also, would Han Solo not have said "I can outrun from Star Destroyers!", if he wanted to impress them?

According to my interpretation, a Star Destroyer doesn't have to be fast. They have to be big and strong. There can be Star Destroyer classes, that are fast and other Star Destroyer classes can be slow. You would have to name a certain class. And that is, what Han has done: He has meant the Star Destroyers of the Corellian class or at least the Star Destroyers build on Corellia.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:According to your interpretation of Han Solos thinking Luke and Ben to be "backwoodsmen"(on a desert planet, btw), why would he assume that they knew where the Star Destroyers were made? They are not Imperials and as you(WILGA) have said, there is no proof that they know where Corellia is. No, he would not have named the manufacturer unless he had more information(or was spouting of prideful dribble) and knew that they would recognize it. If he were talking about the Star Destroyers, he would definitely have mentioned them by name, as you have said, they are what the Imperial Navy was known for.

According to my interpretation, the Star Destroyers of the Corellian class or the Star Destroyers build on Corellia (in the EU called »Imperial Star Destroyer«) are, because they are used by the Empire throughout the galaxy, famous enough to be known by two backwoodsmen of Tatooine.

I think, your problem is, that you know the EU too well. You can't see the movies without thinking of the background informations the EU is supplying you with.

You have to try to forget the EU and its informations. Then see the movie and try to interpret it. Then you will see, that the most plausible interpretation is, that Han has meant with »big Corellian ships« the ships, we have seen throughout the first three movies. These ships were also called »Star Destroyers« - but only as a type of ship and not as a class. And when someone has said »Imperial Star Destroyers«, that someone wanted to imply only its allegiance.

Maybe it be easier to understand if you look again at the class name »Imperial Star Destroyer«: If we assume, that this is indeed a class name, how wuld it be called, if a ship of that class would be owned by another fraction and its allegiance has to be made clear? A »New Republic Imperial Star Destroyer«? And if it is still owned by the Imperial Navy, would it be a »Imperial Imperial Star Destroyer«? You see, that it is absurd. Nobody compos mentis would name a ship class with terms, that are indicating an allegiance.

That's why it was absurd from some stupid EU authors to assume, that, when someone has called the seen ships »Imperial Star Destroyers« that this someone wanted th refer to their class and not to the type of ship and its allegiance.

It is as if one would say today instead of »Imperial Star Destroyers, two of them, coming right at us.« »American frigates, two of them, coming right at us.« or »American Aircraft carrier, two of them, coming right at us.«

I should have clarified my meaning when referring to the correllian corvettes. I meant that only to show the structural difference between correllian made capital ships and the ISDs. I did not mean to insinuate that he was referring to these corellian ships.

In ANH Leia clearly states that Alderaan has no sort of defenses, that they are peaceful world and should not be destroyed. (actually, I think she said weapons, which is even better for my purposes) If this is true, then how could that rebel blockade runner(tantive IV) be made by Alderaan?


You did not give me a direct answer on how Kenobi and Luke would know the manufacturers of the Star Destroyers. You said that it would not be impossible to recognize the Star Destroyers, on this I agree with you, but how can you prove that they know the manufacturer? I couldn't possibly tell you where our battleships and air carriers are maid, why would he assume that they would know this?

All of the SDs we saw in the trilogy were uniform, precisely the same. This fits with the Imperial rigidity. They are all built the same and appear the same (with the exception of the executor, which strengthens the argument that I am about to make) there are no distinguishing features, aside from a transponder code. These shields and weapons are identical, the performance, identical. If they had classes for different speeds and defense and firepower(aside from the executor) they would have to be designed differently, they would look differentlt and we didn't see this. The structure of the ships would have to be changed in order to support certain weapons and engine modifications. I am willing to concede that the correllians made some SDs if you will concede that they would not be the uniform Imp. ships that we see in the movies. I have no problems with them being grouped into a type of ship called a Star Destroyer, but they simply are not the uniform imp triangular shape. I have given many valid examples why this is not possible, most importantly the one that I just presented.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:I should have clarified my meaning when referring to the correllian corvettes. I meant that only to show the structural difference between correllian made capital ships and the ISDs. I did not mean to insinuate that he was referring to these corellian ships.

I have understood that. But these structural differences are irrelevant, if that ship, that wasn't named or classified on screen or in the novel is no Corellian ship but an Alderaan ship.

Remember, only the EU has said, that it is a Corellian ship. In the movies, it is flown only by Alderaans over at least twenty years. We have never seen someone from another world flying it.

And as I have already said, Alderaan is or was an important Core World. It is more plausible to assume, that such a world would build its own ships than to merely buy it.

Insofar, the developement the EU has made, was implausible from the beginning. From what was shown in the movies and written in its novelization, the most plausible conclusion would have been, that the shown but unnamed and unclassified ship is an Alderaan ship.

To me, it is inapprehensible how someone could make it to a Corellian corvette.

But that is the EU that is often incompatible with the highest canon and, if it does not outright violate higher canon, violates often at least the spirit of Star Wars by using holes in the higher canon in a way, that simply was so not intended by George Lucas.

That's why someone, who has seen the movies but not read the EU novels, wouldn't recognize the there described Star Wars universe.

And that's why many EU fetishists don't like the second trilogy or the new Clone Wars because the there described spirit simply does not fit with what was described in the EU and now, they are disappointed. But the problem is not Star Wars, the problem is, that the EU has developed to a caricature of Star Wars and that they expect to see that caricature instead of what Star Wars really is.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:In ANH Leia clearly states that Alderaan has no sort of defenses, that they are peaceful world and should not be destroyed. (actually, I think she said weapons, which is even better for my purposes) If this is true, then how could that rebel blockade runner(tantive IV) be made by Alderaan?

1. A few ships for diplomatic missions, peacekeeping or as a police force wouldn't really count as military defence or weapons, appropriate to be used against an Alderaan attacking military force.
   
   Fact is, that ships of that or a similar class were already used by Alderaan twenty years ago (Revenge of the Sith). Insofar it was no secret, that Alderaan has such ships, especially because Leia was cateched aboard such a ship.
2. And, as was declared in the novelization, "The defense systems on Alderaan, despite the Senator's protestations to the contrary, were as strong as any in the Empire." That means, that despite the Senator's protestations, Alderaan has had ships and weapons in a magnitude as other Core worlds.
   
   Because the destroying of Alderaan was quick and dirty, as seen on screen, one can only assume, that - off-screen - after its destroying, the parts of the Alderaan defence fleet, that was not stationed on Alderaan but on space stations, on other planets or asteroids of that system or neighbouring systems, or the parts that were on patrol and therefore not destroyed with their home world, have attacked the Death Star and were destroyed. It is illogical to assume, that the defense system of a space faring world would be located only on the world itself and not be distributed over the whole system.
   
   Elsewise it is not explainable, how the defense system of Alderaan could be judged. It was not employed against the Death Star before the planet was destroyed. We could see as much in the movie. That means that it could only be deployed after the planet was destroyed. And that would have happened off-screen.

That's why there is no contradiction.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:You did not give me a direct answer on how Kenobi and Luke would know the manufacturers of the Star Destroyers. You said that it would not be impossible to recognize the Star Destroyers, on this I agree with you, but how can you prove that they know the manufacturer? I couldn't possibly tell you where our battleships and air carriers are maid, why would he assume that they would know this?

I don't necessary mean, that they know the manufacturer as a company. But the name of the world that is supplying the Empire with the most used Star Destroyers would be known.
I know, that the F 16 or F 14 is coming from the USA. And even if I would see a F 16 in Israel or India or another state, where it is exported, I would still know, that it is coming from the USA. The same applies to every Mig. I simply know that they are coming from Russia and are exported.
I don't have to know, which company exactly has produced it.

Airlocke_Jedi_Knight wrote:All of the SDs we saw in the trilogy were uniform, precisely the same. This fits with the Imperial rigidity. They are all built the same and appear the same (with the exception of the executor, which strengthens the argument that I am about to make) there are no distinguishing features, aside from a transponder code. These shields and weapons are identical, the performance, identical. If they had classes for different speeds and defense and firepower(aside from the executor) they would have to be designed differently, they would look differently and we didn't see this. The structure of the ships would have to be changed in order to support certain weapons and engine modifications. I am willing to concede that the correllians made some SDs if you will concede that they would not be the uniform Imp. ships that we see in the movies. I have no problems with them being grouped into a type of ship called a Star Destroyer, but they simply are not the uniform imp triangular shape. I have given many valid examples why this is not possible, most importantly the one that I just presented.

No.

As I have said, Star Destroyer is a type of ship and not a class of ship. According to George Lucas, the ship of General Grievous was also a Star Destroyer and even the ships, the EU has classified as Munificent-class star frigate could be Star Destroyers. The same applies to the Mon Calamari Star Cruiser. Every military capital ship could be classified as a Star Destroyer (although size may not be the only relevant aspect).

Corellia is producing the dagger-shaped Star Destroyers, which the Empire is using throughout the galaxy - and the EU has wrongly classified as Imperial Star Destroyers. And that's why Han could assume, that Luke and Ben would know, which ships he has meant.

You are being unreasonable. You are taking a rather obscure comment, make liberal assumptions and stretching many truths(not to mention contradicting yourself on occasion) for the sole purpose of discrediting Star Wars canon. I see no end to this argument because I can't definitively disprove you, and truth be told, there isn't enough information to prove your point while working within the canon universe and avoiding the EU. This argument is a moot point because you are going to continue to argue unless there is no way around it. It is pointless, the point can't be proved wrong or right beyond any doubt. It is for this reason that I concede(although I do not feel that I have been defeated) to avoid unnecessary head aches.