Starfleet Jedi

Commander Shelby said the fleet should back up and running in about fleet in about six months. That means Federations has the able to build 39 to 42 starships in six months. Depend on if she meant also replace the Mars Defanse Perimeter spacecrafts .This also does not in could the starships that individual race can build. Vulcan more or less have there own fleet. It unknown how many starships Vulcan can build in a year. It also unknown how many other races build there own starships that are members the of the Federation.

Jasonb wrote:Commander Shelby said the fleet should back up and running in about fleet in about six months. That means Federations has the able to build 39 to 42 starships in six months. Depend on if she meant also replace the Mars Defanse Perimeter spacecrafts .This also does not in could the starships that individual race can build. Vulcan more or less have there own fleet. It unknown how many starships Vulcan can build in a year. It also unknown how many other races build there own starships that are members the of the Federation.

Or she simply meant that they could boost their existing output by that much, but yes 40 is a lower limit for maximum output.

See this page, paying special attention to section II.C.4.

I think the second Sector 001 invasion by the Borg, the brief skirmishing with the Klingons, and the Dominion War finally put the production rate question to rest. In all of that thousands of Federation starships were lost and yet somehow the Federation did not run out of ships, which they certainly would have if Starfleet only had a few thousand capital ships to start with, and at best a production rate of around 40 ships a year. The Federation also had a a fleet that combined with the Klingons and Romulans was large enough to challenge and drive back the approximately 30,000 strong Dominion fleet during the final push to Cardassia Prime.
-Mike

It possible that war like Dominion war. All ship yards in Federation territory were turn over Federation and even allies races. Mean time Star Trek the best of both worlds. They may have while for political reason were only able build 40 starship every six months.

That's all possible, but 39 starships in 6 months? Shelby only says the following:

"We'll have the fleet back up in less than a year. I imagine you'll get your choice of any Starfleet command, sir."

By that Shelby could mean rebuilding the losses as taking anywhere anywhere from 4 to 11.9 months. Nowhere does she specify the exact time.
-Mike

It's also possible that Starfleet has a large "reserve fleet" along the lines of the US one, where older ships where kept in mothballs until required. The Federation apparently hadn't had a major conflict for a number of decades so they may have decided to place ships in reserve rather then scrap them.

Which neatly allows for Shelby's comment and the numbers in DS9.

That is certainly also a possibility, though more likely it is a mixture of Starfleet ramping up production as well as recalling deep-space missions, as well as pulling older ships out of mothballs and upgrading them. Usually when refering to losses, it was noted that the Dominion displayed an "impressive" ability to build ships. So in that context, the Federation and allies must also be doing quite extensive building programs of their own to replace losses.
-Mike

Mike DiCenso wrote:That is certainly also a possibility, though more likely it is a mixture of Starfleet ramping up production as well as recalling deep-space missions, as well as pulling older ships out of mothballs and upgrading them. Usually when refering to losses, it was noted that the Dominion displayed an "impressive" ability to build ships. So in that context, the Federation and allies must also be doing quite extensive building programs of their own to replace losses.
-Mike

This is a pretty good explanation, I must admit. Of course I favour the inclusion of a reserve fleet because it goes a ways to countering the "hur hur Federation is stupid lol" crap that has been going around.

Yeah ST:FC and DS9, particularly the Dominion War showed that the Federation was more than capable of fielding fleets considerably in excess of the 40 ship fleet at Wolf-359, and even replacing their heavy losses in a relatively short period of time. The fact that this was all in the highest canon of the ST franchise really pissed off some of the more militant Warsies who tried for years to claim that Starfleet only maybe had a few hundred ships.
-Mike

Mike DiCenso wrote:Yeah ST:FC and DS9, particularly the Dominion War showed that the Federation was more than capable of fielding fleets considerably in excess of the 40 ship fleet at Wolf-359, and even replacing their heavy losses in a relatively short period of time. The fact that this was all in the highest canon of the ST franchise really pissed off some of the more militant Warsies who tried for years to claim that Starfleet only maybe had a few hundred ships.
-Mike

Well I don't think it's quite as bad as all that. There's a segment in any fan base that is very vocal but doesn't have any points to make besides grinding their personal axe as if the power of one franchise being greater then theirs is some sort of attack on them, it happens with ST, WH40K, SW you name it.

The "hur hur, phasers don't have trigger guards crowd" aren't much more then a "me too" group. Even folks who are dead set against a particular franchise but are better or honest debaters will try and find an IU reason other then "stupid".

The Dude wrote:It's also possible that Starfleet has a large "reserve fleet" along the lines of the US one, where older ships where kept in mothballs until required. The Federation apparently hadn't had a major conflict for a number of decades so they may have decided to place ships in reserve rather then scrap them.

Which neatly allows for Shelby's comment and the numbers in DS9.

It also explains all those Mirandas and the like running around.

Mike DiCenso wrote:That's all possible, but 39 starships in 6 months? Shelby only says the following:

"We'll have the fleet back up in less than a year. I imagine you'll get your choice of any Starfleet command, sir."

By that Shelby could mean rebuilding the losses as taking anywhere anywhere from 4 to 11.9 months. Nowhere does she specify the exact time.
-Mike

As Mike said, it's a combination, though they do have a great deal of ships mouthballed. It was in fact, referenced in Star Trek 6 that they were mouthballing the fleet (although at that point they had maybe 3,000 ships at most) and this was when Starfleet was constantly having extended conflicts with the Klingons. After that, things sort of became peaceful for a time being, though we do know that there were a few minor wars, one including a war with the Cardassians that the Federation viewed as more akin to border skirmishes than actual war.

That said, the UFP fleet is probalby around 30,000 including Excelsiors, Mirandas, Ambassadors, Centaurs, and a few other older model ships. Though we did see pretty good numbers as far as Galaxy, Nebulas, Akiras, Steamrunners, Defiants, and even Prometheus has shown up twice.

Mith wrote: It was in fact, referenced in Star Trek 6 that they were mouthballing the fleet (although at that point they had maybe 3,000 ships at most) and this was when Starfleet was constantly having extended conflicts with the Klingons.

I don't think that the Starfleet was mothballed:

SPOCK: The dismantling of our space stations and starbases along the Neutral Zone, an end to almost seventy years of unremitting hostility with the Klingons, which the Klingons can no longer afford.

MILITARY AIDE: Bill, are we talking about mothballing the Starfleet?

C in C: I'm sure that our exploration and scientific programs would be unaffected, Captain, but...

Note that the negotiations were about dismantling specificaly the starbases and space stations along the KNZ, to which the aide exclaimed as more a question if that ment the mothballing of Starfleet, which as we know, it did not, at least where the science and exploration programs were concerned. The Romulans also were still out there as a potential advesary, especially as the Tomed Incident did not occur until around 2311. The events of ST VI took place in 2293.
-Mike

Shelby's comment allows for 7800 to 8400 capital ships at any given time, which is in line with DITL speculations about number of ships. (And runabouts have NCC-(number) added to them)

Starfleet has to have considerably more than that number given that the Dominion, Breen, and Cardassian forces were able to easily field some 30,000 starships, while the Federation, Klingon and Romulan were not only able to match this, after some considerable fighting and losses over two years, but were by "What You Leave Behind" able to overwhelm them enough to threaten and surround Cardassia completely. So realistically, this means that the Federation has 10,000 or more starships available for combat at any one given time, assuming that the Alpha Quadrant alliance each had an even number of ships between them.
-Mike