The Dominion Vs The Galactic Empire

[Admiral Breetai]

alright so some stipulations : To negate the FTL issue we'll say the Dominion was able to obtain a copy of research based off Janeways discoveries and create a working efficient version of Transwarp not limited to hubs, as for evidence that can be used, per OP fiat let's use only whats been shown in the movies and TV series for both franchises (clone wars and films/St series and movies ) no Eu sources what so ever for either party beyond whats shown in the movies and tv series

right then scenario: The Dominion discover a wormhole that leads to the Wars galaxy around six months before the events of attack of the clones. popping out in the unknown regions/outer rim the Dominion manages to convince a couple dozen of the most backwater systems in the area to join them. Using the time between AOTC to ESB the dominion begins a massive fortification and ship build up constructing shipyards breeding Jem'hadar getting their fleet-yards in the GQ ready for full war time footing getting infiltration and so on. around the time of ESB they make contact with the Rebellion intending to use them as they did the Cardassians and begin to prepare for a full scale invasion of the Galactic Empire. Around the time Vader arrives at hoth is the designated time for the Dominions invasion to begin.

How does this go? can the Dominion successfully conquer and hold the galaxy or will they loose?

[Mith]

They steamroll the Empire.

[Admiral Breetai]

They steamroll the Empire.

really? it wouldn't even be a fight of it? I mean yeah Dominion industry is brutal but

[Mike DiCenso]

They steamroll the Empire.

Um, why?
-Mike

[Praeothmin]

I second Mith, they Steamroll the Empire...
I mean, the OP gives them 30 years to prepare their forces, unlimited Transwarp which means they go faster than Hyperdrive without needing any lanes.
In the DW in DS9, they were able to commit 30 000 ships to the fight, while still holding on to their territory on the other side of the wormhole, so they must have at least twice that number of avaialble ships, and right off the bat, they have 20-30 000 ships available for the invasion.
Then they spend 30 years building even more of a force, cloning more troops, building bases in the SW Galaxy.
We know they can grow clones much, much faster than the Republic, plus they get the help of the Rebels?
The Rebel's rag-tag forces were already giving headaches to the Empire, now they are aided by a force of over 30 000 ships (probably more because of all the prep-time), the Rebels now have transporters, Phased-Polaron beams capable of ignoring shields, and pilots willing to ram enemy ships even when they are winning the encounter just so the enemy dies.
Considering it takes 1 slow-moving asteroid to destroy the bridge tower of an ISD, imagine what a 90 meter, 100 000 tons Dominion Bug will do... :)

If they had been limited to their standard Warp Speeds, then they could simply conquer about 1/10th of the Galaxy and remain there for eternity without fear of losing it, but in this case they have matching mobility with the Empire, so they kick Imp's asses... :)

[StarWarsStarTrek]

*sigh*

The dominion were devastated by a war that had about 800 million casualties. The Yuuzhang Vong war caused about 200 trillion casualties and Star Wars (albeit not the Empire, since it was reduced to the Remnant) recovered fine.

The Empire quite literally has more people than the dominion have ammo to shoot at.

Oh, and dominion ships were missing the Enterprise at quite literally point blank range and an entire breen fleet was able to cause about 8 million casualties to the San Fransisco bay area. Even 6000 year old KOTOR cruisers caused billions of casualties in the bombardment of Taris.

BTW, even if you think that Trek technology is somehow superior, the Empire is simply too massive for the Dominion to possibly conquer, with a massive enough industrial base to beat the dominion by sheer weight of numbers.

[Admiral Breetai]

the dominion weren't devastated by those losses what so ever..hell both sides expected the Feds alone...to absorb some nine hundred billion losses before things got desperate..and they either surrendered or cracked out the super weapons-these guys where fully prepared for a long bloody fight

they're industrial capacity is nothing to sneeze at either they held the feds at bay after loosing the wormhole with only a few shipyards..and the Cardassians who have proven time and time again..they really weren't especially valuable beyond providing a beach head and some extra troops. until Martok and Worf and Da Chief blew up one of their facilities any ways then things got rough

the eight hundred million figure is the total tally of Cardassian dead after the founder completely lost her patients with them and ordered them exterminated...it in no way reflects what the dominion suffered especially considering..they supposedly saw this war as one gigantic holding action -Damar bitched about losses constantly...it was never a problem for the changeling..or Weyoun until he lost his cloning facility and worried about final death

the founders bowed out because Odo held the cure for their species, over they're heads

edit I'm not sure why your bringing up the vong war considering I expressly limited things in the thread to solely movies and tv series for both parties

[Khas]

The 800 million casualties were from the Battle of Cardassia alone. The Dominion War had billions of casualties.

As for the Yuuzhan Vong War, most of those casualties were civillian in nature, as the YV were religious fanatics.

The Empire is actually easy to defeat, you just have to take out Palpy, and the whole house of cards collapses.

The Breen fleet that trashed San Francisco was most likely a wave of fighters, as the original Enterprise was capable of wiping out a planet's biosphere, and do I even have to mention the fleet from "The Die Is Cast"?

I've seen the Bombardment of Taris, it really wasn't that impressive. It takes many shots just to destroy one building. The orbital bombardment scenes from "The Die Is Cast" and "Fire Warrior" are more impressive, the latter one's much more so.

And the Dominion likes to work by infiltration, with the Founders replacing key individuals to destabilize everything, before finally attacking. And the 30,000 ships in less than 2 years of fighting is impressive. With 30 years of preparation, the Dominion has plenty of time to throw things into anarchy before they attack, with significant force. It takes only three days for a Jem'Hadar to reach adulthood. If the Dominion can set up Jem'Hadar hatcheries and Vorta cloning facilities all over multiple planets, they could have a very impressive millitary in a very short time.

And yes, Trek Tech is vastly superior to Wars Tech. Trek has:
Insta-Terraformers (Genesis Devices)
Practical Cloaking Devices
Black Hole Bombs (Red Matter)
Controllable Time Travel
Sensors that can detect ships many light-years away.
Chroniton Torpedoes
To name a few...

[Nowhereman10]

The 800 million casualties were from the Battle of Cardassia alone. The Dominion War had billions of casualties.

Actually, 800 million is a lower limit for what Cardassia herself suffered as a result of the Founder's order to exterminate all Cardassians:

"Eight hundred million dead."

"And casualty reports still coming in. Well, aren't you going to congratulate me, Doctor? My exile is now officially over. I've returned home. Or rather, to what's left of it."
-Doctor Bashir and Garak on Cardassia's casulties

We have no idea, other than "thousands of ships" and however many crews were on-board them that were lost for the Federation and allies' fleet, and presumably the Dominion-Breen fleet suffered similarly. Assuming 2000 or so ships lost and only 300 crewmen average for each ship, that gives us 600,000 additional dead right there. Of course ships with large ground troop numbers aboard and such are going to push that through the roof, and also bear in mind that the Female Changeling surrendered and ended the conflict before the battle was expected to get nasty.

The Breen fleet that trashed San Francisco was most likely a wave of fighters, as the original Enterprise was capable of wiping out a planet's biosphere, and do I even have to mention the fleet from "The Die Is Cast"?

Or what more likely happened was that the damage was the result of a slight leak-through of the planetary shields in that area. It's been shown in "Divergence" that the Klingon colony of Qu'vat had a shield that as it suffered bombardment, the shield weakened, and the structures began to take gradually increasing amounts of damage. Now that was in the 2150's, and presumably Earth would have stronger shields. But the principle should remain the same, and likely the Breen did a massive bombardment from space to overwhelm it, even as they were taking heavy losses.

Besides which, we've never even seen the Breen use fighters, ever.

[Lucky]

The Breen fleet that trashed San Francisco was most likely a wave of fighters, as the original Enterprise was capable of wiping out a planet's biosphere, and do I even have to mention the fleet from "The Die Is Cast"?

Actually that attack is a good case for a planetary shield around the Earth. Even fights can carry standard torpedos in at least the kiloton range, and all it would take is one torpedo to get to the surface to level most of a city.

[sonofccn]

In the DW in DS9, they were able to commit 30 000 ships to the fight, while still holding on to their territory on the other side of the wormhole, so they must have at least twice that number of avaialble

Well to be fair they appear to hold thier worlds in a relax grip, hence the Federation flying about in their backyard without initally realizing it.

I second Mith, they Steamroll the Empire...
I mean, the OP gives them 30 years to prepare their forces, unlimited Transwarp which means they go faster than Hyperdrive without needing any lanes.

I have to agree, seems overkill through the sheer size of Empire likely will bled the conflict for untold years even with this edge.

We know they can grow clones much, much faster than the Republic, plus they get the help of the Rebels?

I'm not sure the Rebels would join up. They're freedom loving guys fighting oppression as opposed to borderline Nazi reptiles with delusions of grandure and outside of a few key areas, such as using imposters to great effect, changlings seemed rather naive about hiding their intentions from the solids. Plus the whole slave races modified to serve them might be a little unsettling.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

*sigh*

The dominion were devastated by a war that had about 800 million casualties. The Yuuzhang Vong war caused about 200 trillion casualties and Star Wars (albeit not the Empire, since it was reduced to the Remnant) recovered fine.

The Empire quite literally has more people than the dominion have ammo to shoot at.


BTW, even if you think that Trek technology is somehow superior, the Empire is simply too massive for the Dominion to possibly conquer, with a massive enough industrial base to beat the dominion by sheer weight of numbers.

The dominion was not devastated at all, in fact their actual holdings in their own quadrant were not even touched.

In regards to industrial capacity the dominion can grow clones a lot faster than the Empire can.

With 30 years to prepare they would invade the empire with enough ships and soldiers to easily conquer it.

[Praeothmin]

I'm not sure the Rebels would join up. They're freedom loving guys fighting oppression as opposed to borderline Nazi reptiles with delusions of grandure and outside of a few key areas, such as using imposters to great effect, changlings seemed rather naive about hiding their intentions from the solids. Plus the whole slave races modified to serve them might be a little unsettling.

The Cardassians also liked their freedom, and were promised much more if they joined the Dominion, so who says the Dominion don't just tell them: "We just want our territory, and then be part of the Republic, and to do that, we need to get rid of the Empire. As soon as it is done, we let you keep the Republic, gain a member, and we live in peace for the rest of eternity!", only to double-cross them at the end, like they did the Cardassians... :)

[Mike DiCenso]

Plus the whole slave races modified to serve them might be a little unsettling.

Why? Except for Pademe, no one in the Republic even batted an eye at the thought of making a modified slave race of soldiers to fight against the Seperatist droid army, nor has anyone in the Republic or Empire expressed concern over using clearly sentient and sapient machines as slave labor. If they did complain to the Dominon about the Jem'Hadar and Vorta, they'd be rightly pointed out as the hypocrites they are.
-Mike

[sonofccn]

Plus the whole slave races modified to serve them might be a little unsettling.

Why? Except for Pademe, no one in the Republic even batted an eye at the thought of making a modified slave race of soldiers to fight against the Seperatist droid army, nor has anyone in the Republic or Empire expressed concern over using clearly sentient and sapient machines as slave labor. If they did complain to the Dominon about the Jem'Hadar and Vorta, they'd be rightly pointed out as the hypocrites they are.
-Mike

Well its always differnt when the other guy does it. ;)

There is also that the Clone army was a clone of a single person, who gave consent, and while horrible dehumanizing didn't really affect anyone else anymore than had they been droids. Simply military hardware designed to do a job. The Vorta, and possibly the Jem'Hadar, however were entire species heavily modified to fullfill various "niches" in the Dominion with the original race wiped out. Forgoing the moral argument, which I admit my bias towards the rebellion colored my judgment, there still might be qualm or two about buddying up to an Empire which might do something similar to the Star War's humans/various aliens.