Gravity and the Star Trek Warp Drive

[Lucky]

SHELBY: What about the heavy graviton beam we were talking about?


LAFORGE: I've gone over it four times. The local field distortion just wouldn't be strong enough to incapacitate them.

WORF: Captain, I am picking up subspace distortion. 


PICARD: Mister Data? 


DATA: This disturbance is the result of a highly charged graviton field emanating from our warp nacelles. It is creating a severe bias in the subspace continuum. 


PICARD: Mister Barclay, are you responsible for this graviton field disturbance? 


BARCLAY [OC]: Yes, sir, I'm altering subspace in a way that's never been conceived of before. I'm fairly certain it will allow us to travel half-way across the galaxy in a matter of only 


PICARD: Mister Barclay, I want you to stop this experiment for now. 


BARCLAY [OC]: Captain, if you'd only allow me to show 


PICARD: Mister Barclay, this is a direct order. Discontinue whatever it is you're doing. 


BARCLAY [OC]: I really would rather not, sir. I'm positive that you'll be pleased with the result once I've finished showing 


WORF: Audio is disconnected. We may speak freely. 


RIKER: How soon before the ODN process is in place? 


DATA: I have been monitoring Geordi's progress. It will be operational in seventeen minutes. 


TROI: Captain, let me go to the holodeck and try and talk to him. 


WORF: Sir, the subspace distortion continues to increase.

WORF: We could disrupt their warp fields with an inverse graviton burst. It would force them to drop to impulse until the gravitons dissipated.

JANEWAY: We don't know exactly how many vessels are out there. but their space appears to be vast. It includes thousands of solar systems, all Borg. We are no doubt entering the heart of their territory. There's no going around it but there may be a way through it. 


CHAKOTAY: Before the probe was disabled, it picked up a narrow corridor of space devoid of Borg activity. We've nicknamed it the Northwest Passage. 


TORRES: Unfortunately, the passage is filled with intense gravimetric distortions. probably caused by a string of quantum singularities. 


PARIS: Better to ride the rapids than face the hive.

I originally made this list trying to find evidence that Warp Drives in Star Trek used gravity to warp space/time, and thereby travel faster then light. I'm not sure I've found sufficient evidence to prove that.

What I think I've found is possible the reason warp speeds seem to fluctuate so much depending on the quality of navigational data. What we see from this data seems to imply that gravity waves effect ships traveling at warp much like ships traveling on water. The rougher the area of space the harder it is to travel through quickly and safely at warp.

What do you think?

Does anyone know of any other relevant examples?

[Picard]

Fact that starships seem to be faster in charted space also indicates that warp drive is gravity-based.

[Mith]

SHELBY: What about the heavy graviton beam we were talking about?


LAFORGE: I've gone over it four times. The local field distortion just wouldn't be strong enough to incapacitate them.

WORF: Captain, I am picking up subspace distortion. 


PICARD: Mister Data? 


DATA: This disturbance is the result of a highly charged graviton field emanating from our warp nacelles. It is creating a severe bias in the subspace continuum. 


PICARD: Mister Barclay, are you responsible for this graviton field disturbance? 


BARCLAY [OC]: Yes, sir, I'm altering subspace in a way that's never been conceived of before. I'm fairly certain it will allow us to travel half-way across the galaxy in a matter of only 


PICARD: Mister Barclay, I want you to stop this experiment for now. 


BARCLAY [OC]: Captain, if you'd only allow me to show 


PICARD: Mister Barclay, this is a direct order. Discontinue whatever it is you're doing. 


BARCLAY [OC]: I really would rather not, sir. I'm positive that you'll be pleased with the result once I've finished showing 


WORF: Audio is disconnected. We may speak freely. 


RIKER: How soon before the ODN process is in place? 


DATA: I have been monitoring Geordi's progress. It will be operational in seventeen minutes. 


TROI: Captain, let me go to the holodeck and try and talk to him. 


WORF: Sir, the subspace distortion continues to increase.

WORF: We could disrupt their warp fields with an inverse graviton burst. It would force them to drop to impulse until the gravitons dissipated.

JANEWAY: We don't know exactly how many vessels are out there. but their space appears to be vast. It includes thousands of solar systems, all Borg. We are no doubt entering the heart of their territory. There's no going around it but there may be a way through it. 


CHAKOTAY: Before the probe was disabled, it picked up a narrow corridor of space devoid of Borg activity. We've nicknamed it the Northwest Passage. 


TORRES: Unfortunately, the passage is filled with intense gravimetric distortions. probably caused by a string of quantum singularities. 


PARIS: Better to ride the rapids than face the hive.

I originally made this list trying to find evidence that Warp Drives in Star Trek used gravity to warp space/time, and thereby travel faster then light. I'm not sure I've found sufficient evidence to prove that.

What I think I've found is possible the reason warp speeds seem to fluctuate so much depending on the quality of navigational data. What we see from this data seems to imply that gravity waves effect ships traveling at warp much like ships traveling on water. The rougher the area of space the harder it is to travel through quickly and safely at warp.

What do you think?

Does anyone know of any other relevant examples?

You do not. Warp drive is subspace based, which it uses to lower its massin order to make it possible to achieve FTL. However, you have proven that gravity can affect warp fields and that's probably why there's a variation in warp speeds.

[Lucky]

The problem is that he was using the warp drive, which works with subspace physics--

And the Borg use a navigational deflector to do the same.

Everything is Subspace physic Mith. Subspace is part of space/time. It is part of the universe, and more accurately it is many places. It is not a nebulous field of energy or particles, and it is manipulated by gravity just like the subspace domain the United Federation of Planets exists in.

LAFORGE: Good question. The emissions are coming from a tertiary subspace domain, but subspace has an infinite number of domains. It's like a huge honeycomb with an endless number of cells. We need to isolate the exact cell that these emissions are coming from. 


PICARD: If someone homed onto the subspace signals created by our modified signal array, could we do the same to them? Track the tetryon emissions to their universe?

TANIS: A place the humanoids on this ship call a subspace layer. A place of pure thought, pure energy. A place of the mind. Think about it, Kes. When you're ready, Suspiria will embrace you. Goodnight.

JANEWAY: It's two in the morning, Ensign. This better be more than a little turbulence. 


KIM: You won't be disappointed. We've got level nine gravimetric distortions closing on our position. 


TUVOK: They're emanating from subspace. 


JANEWAY: On screen. Shields. 


PARIS: It's heading right toward us. 


JANEWAY: Evasive manoeuvres. 


CHAKOTAY: Captain. 


JANEWAY: Say good morning to thirty million terajoules of subspace energy. 


PARIS: This thing is following us. I can't outrun it at impulse. 


JANEWAY: Go to warp. 


PARIS: It's disrupting our warp field. 


KIM: If it gets any closer the gravimetric stresses are going to rip the plating off our hull. 


SEVEN: Captain, I recognise this phenomenon. It's Borg designation is spatial anomaly five two one. It's attracted to objects that emit electromagnetic energy. We have to cut power and reverse our shield polarity. 


JANEWAY: Do it. 


PARIS: That was close. 


JANEWAY: I recognise this anomaly too. It's called a graviton ellipse. According to the Federation Database it travels through subspace, emerging occasionally without warning. Ellipses have only been observed a handful of times.

-the thing that produces an effect that should be impossible for something like the Enterprise D to power with conventional antimatter. It really can't tell us much at all.

It is a good thing that the Federation uses Dilithium to power its ships then isn't. Dilithium, the stuff that blows up planets simply because it is sitting in the planet's crust?

http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... 382#p48382

You do not.

You are obligated to provide the evidence that you have that supports your claim.

Warp drive is subspace based, which it uses to lower its mass in order to make it possible to achieve FTL.

You have provided no evidence to counter my theory, and no evidence to support your own claims.

Your idea has a major problem.

The first problem with your idea is that the closer you get to the speed of light the more the ship's mass will increase. By the time you reach the speed of light your ship will have reach infinite mass, and that means infinite energy to counter ship's mass. They have a hard time lowering the mass of an asteroidal moon and space station only slightly. They also don't have systems on ships that do what you suggest as standard.

A second problem with your theory, lowering the mass of an object to make moving it easier is thought of as an unusual and novel thing to do.

A third problem with your idea is that even if you perfectly remove all mass from an object you can only reach the speed of light.

A fourth interesting quirk of your idea is that these "mass lowering fields" are created by using things that generate and control gravity. Shields are controlled gravitons remember, and nacelles are shown to generate and control gravitons normally as well.

On top of that mass is a measurement of volume and weight. The only way to change mass is to alter universal constants like the strength of the gravitational force, or mess with the higgs field.

However, you have proven that gravity can affect warp fields and that's probably why there's a variation in warp speeds.

Which is all I said I proved.

[Mith]

Everything is Subspace physic Mith. Subspace is part of space/time. It is part of the universe, and more accurately it is many places. It is not a nebulous field of energy or particles, and it is manipulated by gravity just like the subspace domain the United Federation of Planets exists in.

Starfleet doesn't exist within a subspace domain...that's...rather obvious.

LAFORGE: Good question. The emissions are coming from a tertiary subspace domain, but subspace has an infinite number of domains. It's like a huge honeycomb with an endless number of cells. We need to isolate the exact cell that these emissions are coming from. 


PICARD: If someone homed onto the subspace signals created by our modified signal array, could we do the same to them? Track the tetryon emissions to their universe?

All this tells us is that subspace has universes within it. Or maybe they can see/interact with each other through subspace. Ie, dimension A uses subspace domains in the B region, while dimension C uses subspace domains in the C region.

TANIS: A place the humanoids on this ship call a subspace layer. A place of pure thought, pure energy. A place of the mind. Think about it, Kes. When you're ready, Suspiria will embrace you. Goodnight.

Tanis had also been duped into believing that his power was actually his own, rather than the Caretaker being just using him, so I doubt he knows all the facts. Even if we were to take this as truth, it doesn't really support your claim at all. Again, at most we know is that some universes exist within subspace or connect to other universes.

JANEWAY: It's two in the morning, Ensign. This better be more than a little turbulence. 


KIM: You won't be disappointed. We've got level nine gravimetric distortions closing on our position. 


TUVOK: They're emanating from subspace. 


JANEWAY: On screen. Shields. 


PARIS: It's heading right toward us. 


JANEWAY: Evasive manoeuvres. 


CHAKOTAY: Captain. 


JANEWAY: Say good morning to thirty million terajoules of subspace energy. 


PARIS: This thing is following us. I can't outrun it at impulse. 


JANEWAY: Go to warp. 


PARIS: It's disrupting our warp field. 


KIM: If it gets any closer the gravimetric stresses are going to rip the plating off our hull. 


SEVEN: Captain, I recognise this phenomenon. It's Borg designation is spatial anomaly five two one. It's attracted to objects that emit electromagnetic energy. We have to cut power and reverse our shield polarity. 


JANEWAY: Do it. 


PARIS: That was close. 


JANEWAY: I recognise this anomaly too. It's called a graviton ellipse. According to the Federation Database it travels through subspace, emerging occasionally without warning. Ellipses have only been observed a handful of times.

...Okay? What does this prove?

It is a good thing that the Federation uses Dilithium to power its ships then isn't. Dilithium, the stuff that blows up planets simply because it is sitting in the planet's crust?

Um...what? Have you watched Star Trek?

Dilithium crystals do not power a starship. They act as the means to control the matter-antimatter energy released by their reactor. This is Trek 101.

You are obligated to provide the evidence that you have that supports your claim.

A bit testy?

First off, it's in the episode Deja Q. Q gives Geordie and Data the idea of lowering the mass of the moon with their warp engines. Effectively making the object lighter.

You have provided no evidence to counter my theory, and no evidence to support your own claims.

Honestly, I sort of expect most people here to have a better understanding of Star Trek episodes and tech displays...but okay:

LAFORGE: You know, this might work. We can't change the gravitational constant of the universe, but if we wrap a low level warp field around that moon, we could reduce its gravitational constant. Make it lighter so we can push it.

Of course, that is a low-level warp field, but I would suspect that the principals applied are the same. Of course, we could also turn to the TM;

5.1 WARP FIELD THEORY AND APPLICATION
Like those before him, Zefram Cochrane, the scientist
generally credited with the development of modern warp
physics, built his work upon the shoulders of giants. Beginning
in the mid-twenty-first century, Cochrane, working with
his legendary engineering team, labored to derive the basic
mechanism of continuum distortion propulsion (CDP). Intellectually,
he grasped the potential for higher energies and
faster-than-light travel, which signified practical operations
beyond the Sol system. The eventual promise of rapid interstellar
travel saw his team take on the added task of an
intensive review of the whole of the physical sciences. It was
hoped that the effort would lead to better comprehension of
known phenomena applicable to warp physics, as well as the
possibility of "left field" ideas influenced by related disciplines.
Their crusade finally led to a set of complex equations,
materials formulae, and operating procedures that described
the essentials of superluminal flight. In those original warp
drive theories, single (or at most double) shaped fields,
created at tremendous energy expenditure, could distort the
space/time continuum enough to drive a starship. As early as
2061, Cochrane's team succeeded in producing a prototype
field device of massive proportions. Described as a fluctuation
superimpeller, it finally allowed an unmanned flight test
vehicle to straddle the speed of light (c) "wall," alternating
between two velocity states while remaining at neither for
longer than Planck time, 1.3 x 10~43 second, the smallest
possible unit of measurable time. This had the net effect of
maintaining velocities at the previously unattainable speed of
light, while avoiding the theoretically infinite energy expenditure
which would otherwise have been required.

Early CDP engines—which were only informally dubbed
"warp" engines — met with success, and were almost immediately
incorporated into existing spacecraft designs with
surprising ease. Although slow and inefficient by today's standards,
these engines yielded a substantial reduction of undesired
time dilation effects, paving the way for round-trip flights
on the order of a few years, not decades. Cochrane and his
team eventually relocated to the Alpha Centauri colonies (a
move that took "only" four years because of CDP-powered
space vehicles), and they continued to pioneer advances in
warp physics that would eventually jump the wall altogether
and explore the mysterious realm of subspace that lay on the
other side.

The key to the creation of subsequent non-Newtonian
methods, i.e., propulsion not dependent upon exhausting
reaction products, lay in the concept of nesting many layers of
warp field energy, each layer exerting a controlled amount of
force against its next-outermost neighbor. The cumulative
effect of the force applied drives the vehicle forward and is
known as asymmetrical peristaltic field manipulation (APFM).
Warp field coils in the engine nacelles are energized in
sequential order, fore to aft. The firing frequency determines
the number of field layers, a greater number of layers per unit
time being required at higher warp factors. Each new field
layer expands outward from the nacelles, experiences a rapid
force coupling and decoupling at variable distances from the
nacelles, simultaneously transferring energy and separating
from the previous layer at velocities between 0.5c and 0.9c.
This is well within the bounds of traditional physics, effectively
circumventing the limits of General, Special, and Transformational
Relativity. During force coupling the radiated energy
makes the necessary transition into subspace, applying an
apparent mass reduction effect to the spacecraft. This
facilitates the slippage of the spacecraft through the sequencing
layers of warp field energy.

Your idea has a major problem.

It wasn't my idea. It was in the show. If you'd like, I can again, point you to the above source where they explained warp field theory and applications, and simply suggest that the ship is always running a low-level warp field in order to move faster, I could also point out that Miles did something similar in the pilot of DS9 to make the newly obtained Deep Space Nine station move faster.

The first problem with your idea is that the closer you get to the speed of light the more the ship's mass will increase. By the time you reach the speed of light your ship will have reach infinite mass, and that means infinite energy to counter ship's mass. They have a hard time lowering the mass of an asteroidal moon and space station only slightly. They also don't have systems on ships that do what you suggest as standard.

First off, again, I'm simply repeating what the episode said. Warp flight does indeed revolve around reducing the mass of their ship. Of course, as I've said, it doesn't really matter because if we look to the TM, it tells use exactly how it works and it pretty much explains everything, including the Warp 10 thing, long before Voyager took it out to the back and shot it like a dog.

A second problem with your theory, lowering the mass of an object to make moving it easier is thought of as an unusual and novel thing to do.

...By using a low-level warp field? How? First off, let's look at the two incidents. The first involves wrapping your field around an asteroid that's at least several times larger than your own ship. The second one involves moving an old mining station formally belonging to another race and has been sabotaged to hell and back. It's not like they were saying "How can we make our ship with impulse and warp engines move faster?".

A third problem with your idea is that even if you perfectly remove all mass from an object you can only reach the speed of light.

A fourth interesting quirk of your idea is that these "mass lowering fields" are created by using things that generate and control gravity. Shields are controlled gravitons remember, and nacelles are shown to generate and control gravitons normally as well.

Ugh.

What proof is there that these ships use gravity to create a warp field? You're supplementing your theory into mine to disprove my claim. Next, as I've said, I'm only repeating what the show said. As far as it's concerned, it's all about reducing mass. Presumably to nothing.

But as you've mentioned, that's a bit out there. Hence why I prefer the TMs more or less when discussing Star Trek. For the most part, they're more consistent. Not always and the fact that they admit to spreading falsehoods doesn't help, I admit. However, the TM does in fact, agree with the two episodes; ie, "During force coupling the radiated enerrgy makes the necessary transition into subspace, applying an apparent mass reduction effect to the spacecraft. This facilitates the slippage of the spacecraft through the sequencing layers of warp field energy.

On top of that mass is a measurement of volume and weight. The only way to change mass is to alter universal constants like the strength of the gravitational force, or mess with the higgs field.

Dude, are you right in the head today?

Mass is not, I repeat, not a measurement of volume and weight. Two objects of different masses can take up the same volume. Because volume measures the space that an object takes up. The volume of a vat of water and a vat of tar can be the same, but their mass is different and hence their weight will be different. Second, weight is not a constant. Weight is how much something weighs--it does not determine its mass (it may help you determine its mass of course, but that's an entirely different thing). It is the mass of an object, plus a gravity field (or lack thereof) that determines the weight of an object. For example, on Earth, a five pound rock weighs five pounds. It's environment has 1g. On a planet with 10g however, that five pound rock now weighs fifty pounds. Again, the rock can have the same mass and the same volume, but put into two very different gravitational fields and your weight will be different.

Which is all I said I proved.

You asked if you'd proven more. I said no. That is all. I pointed to them using mass reduction as the basis of their technology.

[Lucky]

Starfleet doesn't exist within a subspace domain...that's...rather obvious.

And what evidence do you have of that? Schisms is rather clear that the universe as a whole has a lot of pocket dimensions/universes inside it. What makes the domain Enterprise-D is from any less of a subspace domain then the one the the kidnappers were from beyond arbitrary perspective?

All this tells us is that subspace has universes within it. Or maybe they can see/interact with each other through subspace. Ie, dimension A uses subspace domains in the B region, while dimension C uses subspace domains in the C region.

DATA: I have found the quantum flux in Worf's cellular RNA extends to the subatomic level. It is asynchronous with normal matter. In essence, Captain, Mister Worf does not belong in our universe. 


RIKER: What? 


DATA: All matter in the universe resonates on a quantum level with a unique signature. That signature is constant. It cannot be changed through any known process. It is the basic foundation of existence. 


RIKER: Are you saying that Worf's quantum signature is different from ours? 


DATA: Yes, sir. I cannot explain it. It is as if he originates from a different quantum universe.

Captain's log, stardate 44162.8. At the direction of the Traveller, the Enterprise is returning to Starbase one three three and the precise position where the subspace bubble was formed.

Subspace is not alternate universes. While a subspace bubble can seemingly have what ever internal volume you want it to have they do not consider subspace to be outside the universe.

You might actually want to read up on what subspace is in the real world a bit as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspace

Tanis had also been duped into believing that his power was actually his own, rather than the Caretaker being just using him, so I doubt he knows all the facts. Even if we were to take this as truth, it doesn't really support your claim at all. Again, at most we know is that some universes exist within subspace or connect to other universes.

And beyond your gut feeling, what evidence do you have he is wrong? There seem to be a number of episodes where exotic entities other subspace interact with the cast. Look at TNG: Where No One Has Gone Before, there is no reason to think he is wrong, or at least such a place does not exist.

...Okay? What does this prove?

Well, I could have used DS9: Emissary , but I was waiting for you to bring that up. It shows gravity strongly effecting subspace. It's called a gravitational ellipse.

Um...what? Have you watched Star Trek?

Dilithium crystals do not power a starship. They act as the means to control the matter-antimatter energy released by their reactor. This is Trek 101.

TNG: Pen-pals shows Dilithium blowing up M-class planets simply because it's sitting in the crust.

I'm not interested in listing a bleep load of quotes from a thread you didn't bother to read.
http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... f=8&t=4209

A bit testy?

So far you've been completely predicable as to what you are saying and ignoring. Rather annoying, and you're even quoting a book that has less in common with the show it claims to describe then the ICS.

As of your last post you have failed to support your claims, and only provided examples of things that support mine. To make matters worse, others have shot down these ideas of yours's before.

First off, it's in the episode Deja Q. Q gives Geordie and Data the idea of lowering the mass of the moon with their warp engines. Effectively making the object lighter.

You need to listen to what the characters are saying Mith.
Point 1
What the Enterprise-D's crew end up doing is not something normally done. This is clear in the context of the episode. The same is true of DS9: Emissary as well. This alone destroys your theory that what they do is anywhere near normal.

Point 2
1) Mass is determined by measuring weight and volume.

2) The moon's weight is the problem

3) Q says to change the universal strength of gravity or G. All of the four forces have a set universal strength.

4) By changing G you change g, and thereby lower the moon's weight and therefor mass as well.

Honestly, I sort of expect most people here to have a better understanding of Star Trek episodes and tech displays...but okay:

Deja Q does not support your claim, and in fact counters it.

Of course, that is a low-level warp field, but I would suspect that the principals applied are the same.

You don't seem to understand something called context. In all cases of what you suggest, it is talked of as a novel thing.

Secondly they specifically say they are going to alter the gravitational constant rather then mass. You can't ignore dialog because it contradicts you.

Of course, we could also turn to the TM;

Non-canon, and rightly so. You would be better served by using the ICS as a guide to Star Wars technical capabilities.

It wasn't my idea. It was in the show. If you'd like, I can again, point you to the above source where they explained warp field theory and applications, and simply suggest that the ship is always running a low-level warp field in order to move faster, I could also point out that Miles did something similar in the pilot of DS9 to make the newly obtained Deep Space Nine station move faster.

DS9 used shields to create a warp field Mith.

1) Shields and possibly warp engines are not subspace systems, and shields generate and manipulate gravity as stated in "Star trek: Generations".

PICARD: Damage report. 


WORF: Warp engines are offline. Shields are down. All subspace systems are inoperative. 


RIKER: Just like the Ferengi ship.

-=-=-=-=-=-

RIKER: The vessel appears to be intact. They have shields, but it looks like their subspace systems are out.

2) Miles lowered DS9's inertia. The property of matter that makes an object at rest want to stay at rest, and an object in motion want to stay in motion. DS9's gravitational pull was not stated to be changed.

3) The canon TV show clearly shows in The Nth Degree that the Nacelles are gravity generation and manipulation devices.

4) The TMs are not canon, and are useless because they are written by short sighted idiots. If i want to listen to meaningless technobabble, I will go watch Voyager, and at least have a good chance of getting an interesting story.

It wasn't my idea. It was in the show. If you'd like, I can again, point you to the above source where they explained warp field theory and applications, and simply suggest that the ship is always running a low-level warp field in order to move faster, I could also point out that Miles did something similar in the pilot of DS9 to make the newly obtained Deep Space Nine station move faster.

Your idea was never in the show. The show made it clear through context that what you suggest is novel to them. You have never shown it to be the norm.

First off, again, I'm simply repeating what the episode said. Warp flight does indeed revolve around reducing the mass of their ship. Of course, as I've said, it doesn't really matter because if we look to the TM, it tells use exactly how it works and it pretty much explains everything, including the Warp 10 thing, long before Voyager took it out to the back and shot it like a dog.

You are not repeating what the episodes said. You are only saying what is in your head, and ignoring reality. By your logic we use Ionocraft instead of airfoils.

The TMs are not canon, and rightfully so. It doesn't matter what the TMs say.

...By using a low-level warp field? How? First off, let's look at the two incidents. The first involves wrapping your field around an asteroid that's at least several times larger than your own ship. The second one involves moving an old mining station formally belonging to another race and has been sabotaged to hell and back. It's not like they were saying "How can we make our ship with impulse and warp engines move faster?".

1) Having no mass does not let something travel faster then light.

2) Laforge didn't mess with mass. They messed with the universal constant of gravity like Q suggested. All of the four forces have a set strength.

3) The way they talk tells us that what they are doing in Deja Q and Emissary is abnormal to them. What is said, how it is said, and what isn't said are very importent. The fact you ignore this every time makes me think you are just trying to be annoying.

What proof is there that these ships use gravity to create a warp field?

This is Star Trek 101 Mith. Anyone who has watched the show knows this stuff.

The Nth Degree shows that it is normal for absurdly powerful gravitational fields to be generated and control by the Nacelles.

Emissary shows deflector generators(shields) being used to create subspace fields, but shields are not subspace systems as shown in TNG: Force of Nature, and like the nacelles are shown to generate and control powerful gravitational fields..

You're supplementing your theory into mine to disprove my claim. Next, as I've said, I'm only repeating what the show said. As far as it's concerned, it's all about reducing mass. Presumably to nothing.

You making shit up.

But as you've mentioned, that's a bit out there. Hence why I prefer the TMs more or less when discussing Star Trek. For the most part, they're more consistent. Not always and the fact that they admit to spreading falsehoods doesn't help, I admit. However, the TM does in fact, agree with the two episodes; ie, "During force coupling the radiated enerrgy makes the necessary transition into subspace, applying an apparent mass reduction effect to the spacecraft. This facilitates the slippage of the spacecraft through the sequencing layers of warp field energy.

So you're lazy, and can't be bothered to actually research? Nothing you've stated supports your claim.

The TMs aren't canon because they don't match what is on screen in the remotest way often. I happen to own the TNG TM. NDF in the manual is used to explain things like the magic go away effect of phasers, but the show has the NDF be extremely explosive, and have nothing to do with phasers at all..

Dude, are you right in the head today?

Mass is not, I repeat, not a measurement of volume and weight. Two objects of different masses can take up the same volume. Because volume measures the space that an object takes up. The volume of a vat of water and a vat of tar can be the same, but their mass is different and hence their weight will be different. Second, weight is not a constant. Weight is how much something weighs--it does not determine its mass (it may help you determine its mass of course, but that's an entirely different thing). It is the mass of an object, plus a gravity field (or lack thereof) that determines the weight of an object. For example, on Earth, a five pound rock weighs five pounds. It's environment has 1g. On a planet with 10g however, that five pound rock now weighs fifty pounds. Again, the rock can have the same mass and the same volume, but put into two very different gravitational fields and your weight will be different.

Mass measured in kilograms x volume = density is what I was thinking of.