Encounter At Farpoint to quantify phaser and reactor output?
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:48 pm
Why hasn't anyone ever used "Encounter at Farpoint" to help determine the Enterprise-D's phaser and reactor output?
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359 wrote: To what in the episode are you referring?
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/thumbnails.p ... =1&page=36Series: Star Trek The next Generation Season: 1 Episode: 1 Titke: Encounter at Farpoint wrote: Q: It is an unknown, Captain. Isn't that enough?
PICARD: If you'd earned that uniform you're wearing, you'd know that the unknown is what brings us out here.
Q: Wasted effort, considering the human intelligence.
PICARD: Let's test that. Beginning with the tunnels you have under Farpoint, Groppler.
RIKER: Identical to the ones on the space vessel lifeform over there. Why was it punishing you, Groppler?
PICARD: In return for some pain you'd given other creature?
ZORN: We've done nothing wrong. It was injured. We helped it.
PICARD: Thank you. That was the missing part. Lieutenant Yar, rig main phaser banks to deliver an energy beam.
TASHA: Aye, sir.
RIKER: You're right, Captain. It has to be conceivable that somewhere in this galaxy there could exist creatures able to convert energy into matter.
PICARD: And into specific patterns of matter, just as our transporters do.
TASHA: On the viewer, Captain!
(The alien vessel transforms into a giant space jellyfish)
PICARD: Groppler, you captured something like that, didn't you?
ZORN: Warn my people, please, to leave Farpoint Station immediately!
Q: He lies, Captain. Shouldn't you let his people die?
PICARD: Transmit the message, leave Farpoint Space Station immediately.
TROI: Then it was a pair of creatures I was sensing. One down there in grief and pain, the other up here, filled with anger.
DATA: And firing not on the new space station, but on the Bandi and their city.
PICARD: Attacking those who had captured, capture its mate.
TASHA: Energy beam ready, sir.
PICARD: Lock it in on Farpoint Station.
Q: I see now it was too simple a puzzle. Generosity has always been my weakness.
PICARD: Let it have whatever it can absorb. Energise.
(A stream of light bathes Farpoint)
TASHA: Now getting feedback on the beam, sir.
PICARD: Discontinue. Groppler Zorn, there'll soon be no Farpoint Station, if I'm right about this.
Q: A lucky guess.
(Farpoint transforms into another space jellyfish)
While that would be amusing, I was talking about the energy to matter transformation the space jellyfish carries out when fed by the Enterprise-D. The Enterprise-D provides the loin's share of the energy the space jellyfish needed, and provided it through the heavy phasers.2046 wrote:Presumably the phaser energy beam that allowed a spacefaring jellyfish to lift off from a planet's surface and achieve orbit very rapidly?
Without details of the power requirements of the jellyfish propulsion system, I don't think we can really go anywhere with that. The Saxtonian idea that you should just calculate reactor energy based on Newtonian physical requirements to break free of the gravity well is nothing more than a conceit. After all, we're dealing with the sci-fi 'reality' where graviton and subspace-whatzit manipulation is commonplace. The Saxtonian calculation is good for pondering the relevant effect, but not the causal force.
And yes, I know of the counterarguments to that idea . . . that it would make for perpetual motion machines and whatnot . . . but since they don't exist in the canon, obviously that is not the case. I think I've speculated elsewhere that a subspace bias of some sort could cancel out the supposed gains after a time, defeating the supposed perpetual motion system, and thus nullify perpetual motion concerns.
Well I don't know if this was the example Mike meant but there is this:359 wrote:But shuttle transporters don't go around creating matter that wasn't there from energy. Also, out of curiosity, what episode what episode is the tens of megawatts from?
the outcast season 5 {TNG} wrote:RIKER: Getting sensor readings. They're unconscious but they're alive. Stand by. I'm going to transport them over here.
SOREN: Power reserves at sixty eight percent and dropping.
(two figures start to materialise then vanish again)
RIKER: The null space must be affecting the annular confinement beam.
SOREN: We used ten megajoules with that attempt. We're down to thirty four percent of reserves.
RIKER: We can give it one more try. More than that, we won't have enough power to get ourselves out of here.
(this time the two bodies solidify)
A transporter takes matter, transforms it to energy, and then transforms the energy to matter again. The transporter does not create the energy that it turns into energy, and then turns back to matter.Mike DiCenso wrote: But to play Devil's advocate, we know that a small shuttle transporter can work on a few tens of megawatts, so perhaps whatever it is the Space Jellyfish creatures do takes advantage of a similar trick.
-Mike
BeforeMr. Oragahn wrote: What is the volume of that creature before healing and after?
Mr. Oragahn wrote: Can we guess its density? (watery tissue maybe?)
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x01/ ... hd_792.jpgEncounter at Farpoint wrote: TASHA: It's much the same construction we saw in the underground tunnel.
DATA: But no sound of power. No equipment.
TASHA: How does this ship run?
We are talking about creatures that can pass as starships, and carry out limited orbital bombardment with energy beams. I think we can treat it like a ship rather then a life form, and the Enterprise-D has been able to power an idling Romulan WarbirdMr. Oragahn wrote: The less efficient the energy to matter process, the more waste there is, therefore the more energy is needed. Mind you, I'd expect such a process to happen slowly. I don't think delivering energy at a high power would work. All systems have their tolerance and it often happens that although a given energy threshold is needed to obtain the most efficiency or simply to get the process started, over a certain power and beyond, the system opposes resistance and the gain becomes smaller and smaller.
That is still quite a wound given we are talking about a creature that is several kilometers across, and can pass itself off as a spaceship.Mr. Oragahn wrote: Maybe it was just a flesh wound...
I wouldn't call it a "Saxtonian" idea. I relied quite heavily on it; and it is not the source for most Saxtonite computations of Star Wars or Star Trek reactor problem. I view conservation of energy as the most fundamental method of getting at the question. Whether you use subspace manipulation, gravity manipulation, et cetera, you have to come up with the net energy difference somewhere.2046 wrote:The Saxtonian idea that you should just calculate reactor energy based on Newtonian physical requirements to break free of the gravity well is nothing more than a conceit. After all, we're dealing with the sci-fi 'reality' where graviton and subspace-whatzit manipulation is commonplace. The Saxtonian calculation is good for pondering the relevant effect, but not the causal force.
