All about Serafina (Split)

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Re: Transreality

Post by Jedi Master Spock » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:29 pm

Kor_Dahar_Master wrote:Nice try at another strawman, i said i posted his RESULTS, and they are obviously supported by the DSM and APA or he would bot have gotten his positions regarding the subject with the DSM/APA if they were not.
His results in the field are not at all limited to his clinical practice and attempts to cure transsexuality via psychotherapy. See some of the other studies of his that I have linked to. He has been involved with a very large number of studies on gender identity.
Zucker ONLY treats children with extreme cases of GID
Which is actually similar to the case of the clinic in the Netherlands that I linked to earlier. Zucker, in fact, coauthored an article tha it concluded that the intensity of GID was higher among male patients in Utrecht than in Toronto, clinic to clinic (with similar intensities for female patients).

The result of persistence studies in the follow-up study in the Netherlands? 27%, if you read the links I provided. Entirely in line with the higher reported intensity of symptoms by the clinic in Utrecht. It is not for nothing that I told Serafina she had taken entirely the wrong approach in addressing the cure rate claimed for Zucker.

The rate among presumably lower intensity "effeminate" boys in Green (1987)? 2%, strikingly low compared to Zucker. Does intensity of childhood GID relate to persistence? Yes. Is that persistence expected to be around 20% for Zucker's patients as patients referred to a clinic for GIDiC, exhibiting the apparent intensity that they do, regardless of what form of "treatment" is used? Yes.

Might response biases throw the data off? Quite possibly. Might Zucker be in possession of data indicating a 10% persistence rate, which has simply not been published in a place that I have looked? Data that convinces him that his approach is helping? Quite possibly. However, if Zucker's treatments have an effect on adult transsexuality at all, it is much smaller than 0.8-0.9.

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Re: Transreality

Post by Jedi Master Spock » Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:32 pm

Serafina has requested a full review of the events of the thread and made numerous private accusations of bigotry. I will therefore unravel and exhibit what happened regarding the exchange of insults in this thread.

1: And no prejudiced semi-octagenarian gardener is going to change that. Serafina, baiting Kor.
2 Say, are you a member of the family of blood? I better get my mobile phone then, and a fob watch. Serafina, baiting Kor.
3: I am not running from anything, your claim that a doctor you saw says you are a certain way is no more valid and likely less valid than the report from Zucker on his results. The real differance is that children are not practiced liars like you nor do they have access to the "transgender narrative" like you did. Kor, implying that Serafina lied to get a diagnosis.
4: Here, let me quote your original prejudiced drivel again: ... No, you prejudist. ... Again, you are just posting a drivel out of ignorance, hate and prejudice. Serafina needles Kor back, calling everything he has written "drivel" and saying that he hates transsexuals.
5: You do it here a lot so i see no reason why you would not do it elsewhere......a liar exposed is still a liar. Kor responds to this by fleshing out his accusation. As with Serafina's accusation of prejudice (lit: "before-judgment") there is substance to his saying that Serafina is a liar; however, it is the implications
6: Actually it clearly refers to me thinking you are emotionally unstable and cannot think rationally on the subject. ... This thread is full of evidence of what i and others consider your emotional instability regarding the subject. Kor follows this up by saying that Serafina is irrational on the subject at hand.
7: Your only source for that claim is your prejudice that transwomen are generally liars. Serafina generalizes Kor's claim about her in particular to transwomen in general.
8: You are not a woman and you will never be one unless you happen to be able to prove the existance of r[eincarnation. You are a mentally ill, emotionally unstable individual who has a deep seeded disatisfaction with his life and is looking for a soap box to preach from to try and force others to accept absurdities likely because it gives you a feeling of control and power you cannot gain any other way.

I doubt you are actually transgender, i doubt you have seen doctors and i doubt you are anything apart from lonely and angry boy looking for attention and somewhere to vent your frustration.

Still you claim im a bigot so i guess we could both be wrong.

Kor breaks out the big guns and throws the whole tackle box of unwelcome assertions at Serafina.
9: I suggest that you move to the bible belt, you would fit in much better there. Serafina sta ys mild but drops a characteristically SDN-style comparison to fundamentalist Christians.
10: And after seeing what you claim is your picture i suggest you join a rock band as the main MALE lead singer, a meatloaf parody band would be perfect, can you sing "Bat out of hell?". Kor responds to that attack with another low blow.
11: Not only are you distorting what i am saying again, but that is - and i have to use that word - sheer, unadultered hateful bigotry again. ... Ah, more - and the word is 100% appropriate - bigotry. Serafina characterises Kor's continued sexual essentialism as "hateful bigotry," and his subsequent insult as "more bigotry." I think characterising the insult as bigoted is appropriate, but classing topical disagreement as "hateful bigotry" is another matter.
12: I am insulting you cos of what you look like simply because you insulted me, i suppose you being FUGLY even as a dude is tecnically biology though.
...
You look like a young meatloaf in a frock, or at the very least a male rock fan......buy a Led Zeppelin's or Motörhead T-shirt and do a bit of headbanging, you would be great at the "whiplash" technique. You can always get chopped up and go from a fertile dude to a sterile transwoman later if it does not work out...

Kor explains that he's going to go tit-for-tat and then does so.
13: I do not like you because you are a insulting distorting manipulative liar and that is about you as a person, your desired gender, sexual preferances or foot size are irrelavant to those things. Kor explains why he doesn't like Serafina.
14: You can try to convince a fundamentalist christian that homosexuality is okay all you like, you will never have any success. But you can still argue against him, lest he might infect others with his bigotry.
Your case is pretty similar.
Serafina returns to SDN-classic mode and says that Kor is like a fundie.
15: By those just like you.

Serafina you are a sick child raping pervert.......there you go i can now claim that there have been accusations that you are a sick child raping pervert...see how easy it is?
This is actually an argumentative point. Serafina appeared to subsequently recognise it as such.
Hey you are ugly, the fact that you are a ugly mutilated guy or a ugly transwoman is not the important part. However, Kor follows it up with another low blow. To review, we've moved from accusations of bigotry and lying to psychiatrists to "ugly" and "fundie."
16: I know real women who are into dudes with long hair as well, id introduce you but i like them. Kor swipes in another quick shot to the shin.
17: ]But if you would consider them worthwhile, you would hate them. Serafina is still trying to generalise Kor's opinion of her to all transsexuals.
18: Stop living in your illness and take a look at what a lying manipulative kind of person you are. Kor being as diplomatic as usual.
19: Again, you are doing nothing but preaching hate against transsexual people and launching personal insults. Serafina's reply.
20: And i need no parenting advise from a soon to be neutered wannabe female. "Neutered" is a new one from Kor.
21: You use those words after your vast strawman and distorted post above it?.

I am done with discussing this with a deranged, obsessed, liar my points are made, confirmed by science.

Kor calls Serafina "deranged."
22: Actually i am now continuing this discussion elsewhere with individuals who are considerably more stable and honest than you, and while they do not agree with some of the things i have said they do not resort to the distortions/strawmen tactics that you do even though they are fully transitioned transexuals. Kor calls Serafina dishonest and unstable and says he's off to debate the topic with nicer transsexuals elsewhere who don't strawman his arguments.
23: I insult you because you are a deranged, manipulative, lying asshole not because you are transgendered. Kor calls Serafina an asshole.
24: Actually id say that when somebody goes to so much effort, fails to find what they want and concludes its somebody elses fault it is reasonable to conclude they need help, you really are a deranged, obsessive nut job aint ya?. Kor calls Serafina deranged again (in response to Serafina's accusation that he couldn't possibly be involved in another discussion with transsexuals elsewhere on the internet).

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Re: Transreality

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:06 am


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Tyralak
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Re: Transreality

Post by Tyralak » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:28 am

Stop it, Mr. O! She might come back!

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Re: Transreality

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:39 am

I have to agree with Tyralak on this matter. This is an unnecessary potential provocation, and thread necromancy. In other words, let sleeping dogs lie.
-Mike

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Re: Transreality

Post by Praeothmin » Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:19 pm

I concur, this is baiting, Mr. O., and while I don't mind if Serafina wants to come back to discuss ST or SW, I don't think anyone would gain anything in another Kor vs Serafina insult-fest on this subject...

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Re: Transreality

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:45 pm

Praeothmin wrote:I concur, this is baiting, Mr. O., and while I don't mind if Serafina wants to come back to discuss ST or SW, I don't think anyone would gain anything in another Kor vs Serafina insult-fest on this subject...

I agree with almost all of that apart from wanting him back.

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Re: Transreality

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:16 pm

Well it's rather funny, because, you know, I don't see this as baiting at all. In fact, I'm not responsible of the possibility that Serafina couldn't react to that with another of those tantrums.
What you're essentially requesting is self censorship because some individuals may be incapable of containing themselves. That's what I'd call counter productive excess of dogooding.
It's even less right in that we know there's been talks about what to do with this thread, and one solution was to close it. Leaving it open sends an entirely different message.

My links are information, which, need I say, is entirely relevant to the subject. But I don't plan to debate it at all. Make your own opinion. It's totally neutral, and could bring some light to the transsexual reality. And that's all.

Now guys, if you have a problem with that, by my guests and close that thread once and for all. As long as it remains open, I'll consider that it is right for anyone to post information and stick to that. I think we're all big enough to know how to restrain ourselves from pointless bickering.
Otherwise, we now have two guardians, bearers of the Banhammer, to make sure undesirable disturbances don't spoil the quietness of our humble community.

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Re: Transreality

Post by Tyralak » Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:13 am

I was just being sarcastic, really.

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Re: Transreality

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Oct 08, 2010 1:02 pm

Tyralak wrote:I was just being sarcastic, really.
I only know carcasstic or sarcasstastic. And I was not talking to you, you illegal xeno.

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Re: Transreality

Post by Praeothmin » Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:21 pm

Well, I can see your point of view...

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Re: Transreality

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:39 am

Transgender tries to join LPGA. Sues

In a way, this reminds me of the "Oscar Pistorius" case.

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Re: Transreality

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:44 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Transgender tries to join LPGA. Sues

In a way, this reminds me of the "Oscar Pistorius" case.
Fuck me comment 49 by your bestest mate in the world makes me look fucking diplomatic lol.

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Re: Transreality

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:36 pm

Mith and JCI hold critically opposed views. You can read a bit more about JCI in the beginning of the thread.

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Re: Transreality

Post by Kor_Dahar_Master » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:55 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Mith and JCI hold critically opposed views. You can read a bit more about JCI in the beginning of the thread.
I already did.

Il not comment.

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