Math education

[Jedi Master Spock]

So I saw over at SB.com that they're talking about how much math everybody has had (thread) and apparently, the fad started at SDN.

I figured I may as well stick up the inevitable anonymous poll before someone else did, and also ask you a question - since I'm not actually interested in the personal side:

What level of math do you think is necessary in the VS debate? How much have you actually used in the VS debate? Personally, I've found that people seem to start failing to grasp arguments if you bring up any calculus (or statistics, for that matter), and I have trouble recalling VS articles I've read that use anything more involved than the math you might see in a secondary school (high school).

There's also the question of how much math people remember after having taken it. I strongly suspect that the math that doesn't get used often is forgotten.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Math is simply behind a lot of the arguments which are pasted all over the boards, knowingly or not.

Understanding of 3D geometry, algebra and a capacity to understand a more or less simple equation and input the correct values is a basic need, but more like there should be a medic, an engineer, a sniper, a colonel in a squad type of thing.

You still need those who have the culture, politics, sciences or military of the real world, those who have the similar knowledge, but about the fictional universes, you need the good debaters capable of using this information to craft convincing arguments and spot the faults in opponents.

[Jedi Master Spock]

Math is simply behind a lot of the arguments which are pasted all over the boards, knowingly or not.

The math does little without science and reasoning behind it.

In some cases, good, in other cases, bad. Most of the math errors I see are statistical, really - propagation of error is a particularly unfamiliar subject for most VS debaters. Most of the errors, period, are failure to understand the relative sizes of numbers and what that means - really, a science failure rather than a math error.

[Who is like God arbour]

I'm not sure, what I have to choose.

The education system in Germany is different from the Anglo-American education system. I have had math the last time in my Abitur(Allgemeine Hochschulreife) classes. According to Wikipedia, that is close to the associate degree of an US college. And again according to Wikipedia, an associate degree in the United States and, more rarely, Canada, is equivalent to the first two years of a four-year college or university degree.

Insofar, I think, that the choice »2-4 semester courses« would be correct.



And I have said often enough, that I don't think, that math or physics is very important in the vs-debate. Most phenomena aren't explainable because they are imaginary. Neither math nor physics can help there.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Math is simply behind a lot of the arguments which are pasted all over the boards, knowingly or not.

The math does little without science and reasoning behind it.

In some cases, good, in other cases, bad. Most of the math errors I see are statistical, really - propagation of error is a particularly unfamiliar subject for most VS debaters. Most of the errors, period, are failure to understand the relative sizes of numbers and what that means - really, a science failure rather than a math error.

Oh sure. You're certainly not going to have to preach me for knowing that although maths can be correct, the issues often lies in the way they're used and the premises they're based upon.

[Mike DiCenso]

I agree here with you both. It's not simply the math, but the assumptions behind attempting to describe what is going on in ST or SW science by choosing a particular math.

Not to go over old ground too much, but it is certain Warsies' assumptions, for example, that their weapons are vaporizing an asteroid, and then coming to a foregone conclusion as to said asteroids' sizes that have been the whole justification in their minds for the now overly inflated numbers they like to hammer over people's head. The whole issue with the Falcon-Avenger chase in TESB with TL flak bursts being mistaken for vaporized asteroids nearly as big as the Falcon herself, and so on.
-Mike

[Flectarn]

Vs. Side

I think that the important thing is a decent grasp of the scale of the numbers being thrown around, and I i guess someone ought to be able to calculate all these things we talk about.

but really for me it's the argument that i find interesting, rather than the conclusion themselves.


personal side. 1 college math course (sort of, computer science 1 doesn't really count as math)

also I don't believe in math ;)