Star wars vs star trek......what the hell

[Cocytus]

Except that they use plasma-conduits and graviton-based isolinear circuits.

As I've said before, plasma is merely a more efficient conducting medium for electricity than metal. Plasmas are gases which have been ionized. An ion is simply an electrically charged particle, with cations being positively charged and anions being negatively charged.

And isolinear circuity is most certainly electron-based. In "One Little Ship," Bashir and O'Brien, shrunk by the subspace compression anomaly, beam inside a circuit housing to reconfigure the Defiant's controls. At one point, Bashir tries to sit down, and O'Brien stops him, saying:

Julian stop! That chip behind you is carrying 20 microamps of electric current.

A clear canonical statement from one of Starfleet's best engineers. I trust we can now put this to rest.

[Cocytus]

Oh, and something else. In "Genesis," when Picard is crawling through the Jeffries Tubes to escape the devolved Worf, when he is finally cornered he puts a plate on the floor, pulls a cable from the wall, and proceeds to electrocute Worf.

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbna ... 70&page=23

[Praeothmin]

Oh, and something else. In "Genesis," when Picard is crawling through the Jeffries Tubes to escape the devolved Worf, when he is finally cornered he puts a plate on the floor, pulls a cable from the wall, and proceeds to electrocute Worf.

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbna ... 70&page=23

This does not count as Picard obviously shocked Worf with Gravitons... ;)

[KirkSkyWalker]

Oh, and something else. In "Genesis," when Picard is crawling through the Jeffries Tubes to escape the devolved Worf, when he is finally cornered he puts a plate on the floor, pulls a cable from the wall, and proceeds to electrocute Worf.

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbna ... 70&page=23

This does not count as Picard obviously shocked Worf with Gravitons... ;)

Or plasma from a conduit, i.e. ionized gas. It might look like an electric-wire, but it isn't.

[KirkSkyWalker]

Except that they use plasma-conduits and graviton-based isolinear circuits.

As I've said before, plasma is merely a more efficient conducting medium for electricity than metal. Plasmas are gases which have been ionized. An ion is simply an electrically charged particle, with cations being positively charged and anions being negatively charged.

And isolinear circuity is most certainly electron-based. In "One Little Ship," Bashir and O'Brien, shrunk by the subspace compression anomaly, beam inside a circuit housing to reconfigure the Defiant's controls. At one point, Bashir tries to sit down, and O'Brien stops him, saying:

Julian stop! That chip behind you is carrying 20 microamps of electric current.

A clear canonical statement from one of Starfleet's best engineers. I trust we can now put this to rest.

The point is that they're not wires; 20 microamps is likewis so minute, that only their "Fantastic Voyage" size could cause it to matter.

Since plasma is already ionized, then an ion-canon isn't going to do much to it. It takes a Level 9 plasma-storm to damage an Intrepid-clas starship, so unless one can prove that an ion-canon can 1) hit a starship in the first place, and 2) deliver more electrical energy than a Level 9 ion-storm, then it's a moot point.

Again, the ship would detect the blast, and raise shields, as well as sweep it aside with deflectors, warp out of the way etc. In contrast, an ISD is a big fat cow that can't move for squat, needing three gigantic ion-thrusters at the rear; so even if they could somehow sense the bolt coming, there wouldn't be much they could do to move out of the way. But the ISD has only STL sensors, while the UFP has FTL sensors.

ISD's also don't have their shields normally raised; in TESB when the ISD is pursuing the Falcon, and the Falcon charges and buzzes the ISD, Admiral Piett orders "Shields up!" so they wouldn't have their shields up unless being directly attacked.
In contrast, Starfleet nav-deflectors automatically sweep approaching particles out of the way; at the speed of Starfleet ships, it's an absolute necessity.

Likewise, in "A Taste of Armageddon," the planet's sonic-disruptors are capable of easily ripping the Enterprise apart if its shields aren't raised; that's why the commander kept trying to get the Enterprise to lower them, but Scotty refuses even under the threat of Court-Martial.

[Cocytus]

The point is that they're not wires; 20 microamps is likewis so minute, that only their "Fantastic Voyage" size could cause it to matter.

The point is that they are electronic. Both Praeothmin and myself have stated starships use plasma instead of wires for electron transfer. They still need something to constrain the plasma, of course, otherwise it would behave as gases do and expand to fill whatever it was in. Hence the conduits, like the one Picard is holding.

Since plasma is already ionized, then an ion-canon isn't going to do much to it. It takes a Level 9 plasma-storm to damage an Intrepid-clas starship, so unless one can prove that an ion-canon can 1) hit a starship in the first place, and 2) deliver more electrical energy than a Level 9 ion-storm, then it's a moot point.

I don't think an ion-cannon would do much to a Federation starship, either. If an ion cannon is designed to disrupt the normal flow of electrons, thereby causing power surges that damage or destroy electronic equipment, then it is in principle similar to an electromagnetic pulse (I think Mike posited that a ways back). We can shield components from electromagnetic interference right here in the real world. Additionally, the mere fact of interstellar travel necessitates electromagnetic shielding to protect electrical systems, especially when dealing with things like hyperactive stars, or the Murasaki quasar. Which begs the question of why an ion-cannon would work on a Star Wars vessel either. One would think their electronics would be properly shielded as well, but Star Wars is so rife with anachronisms.

ISD's also don't have their shields normally raised; in TESB when the ISD is pursuing the Falcon, and the Falcon charges and buzzes the ISD, Admiral Piett orders "Shields up!" so they wouldn't have their shields up unless being directly attacked.

You'll get no argument from me on the stupidity of Imperial standard operating procedure.

[KirkSkyWalker]

The point is that they're not wires; 20 microamps is likewis so minute, that only their "Fantastic Voyage" size could cause it to matter.

Since plasma is already ionized, then an ion-canon isn't going to do much to it. It takes a Level 9 plasma-storm to damage an Intrepid-clas starship, so unless one can prove that an ion-canon can 1) hit a starship in the first place, and 2) deliver more electrical energy than a Level 9 ion-storm, then it's a moot point.

I don't think an ion-cannon would do much to a Federation starship, either. If an ion cannon is designed to disrupt the normal flow of electrons, thereby causing power surges that damage or destroy electronic equipment, then it is in principle similar to an electromagnetic pulse (I think Mike posited that a ways back). We can shield components from electromagnetic interference right here in the real world. Additionally, the mere fact of interstellar travel necessitates electromagnetic shielding to protect electrical systems, especially when dealing with things like hyperactive stars, or the Murasaki quasar. Which begs the question of why an ion-cannon would work on a Star Wars vessel either. One would think their electronics would be properly shielded as well, but Star Wars is so rife with anachronisms.

Star Wars travel is typically either with hyperdrive or ion-engines; hyperdrive doesn't encounter anything like that (unless they "pass right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova"), and ion-engines don't propel a ship fast enough to matter.
As for EMP, that's really a low-amplitude EM wave which only affects components with a 500+-mile long antenna, e.g. an electrical-grid.

ISD's also don't have their shields normally raised; in TESB when the ISD is pursuing the Falcon, and the Falcon charges and buzzes the ISD, Admiral Piett orders "Shields up!" so they wouldn't have their shields up unless being directly attacked.

You'll get no argument from me on the stupidity of Imperial standard operating procedure.

Clearly their shields consume a much higher percentage of the ship's power-- and since it's fusion-based , then it would make more sense to conserve it. Fortunately for the UFP, they don't have that problem.
To be fair, however, I have to question ST's operating proceduser as well when "Yellow Alert" doesn't involve raising shields. (IMHO, STII is when "Star Trek" stopped being Star Trek-- particularly since the producer had never seen a single episode, and thought it was all about ships shooting at each other and pseudo-intellectual morals steeped in sci-fi like a crucifix in a jar of peepee; however canon is canon, and one has to be consistent in citing it).

We've also never seen deflector-beams used in SW; meanwhile ST uses them not only for navigation, but one is used directly in "This Side of Paradise" when the Enterprise tries unsuccessfully to deflect a planet-sized meteor. Obviously they have a much longer range, since FTL travel would require it.

[Praeothmin]

Cocytus, while we shield our electronic equipments, these protections do have limits.
And in ST, where any hard hit makes consoles explode in smoke and electrical sparks all the time, the concept of surge protection isn't applied too much either... :)

[Cocytus]

As for EMP, that's really a low-amplitude EM wave which only affects components with a 500+-mile long antenna, e.g. an electrical-grid.

My point was the method by which EMP causes damage to electronic systems, which is by inducing power surges.

Clearly their shields consume a much higher percentage of the ship's power-- and since it's fusion-based , then it would make more sense to conserve it. Fortunately for the UFP, they don't have that problem.

That brings up an interesting point, since there are several episodes which suggest the majority of the ship's systems, even the weapons and shields, aren't powered by the warp drive. We know from "Hero Worship" that Galaxy class starships have at least nine fusion reactors, and that Geordi had to run the shields off the warp drive to make them as strong as he could to resist the gravitational wavefronts within the Black Cluster. Likewise, in "The Nth Degree," warp power is diverted to the shields to try and stave off the Cytherian probe. In "Galaxy's Child" Geordi shuts down the warp core to show Dr. Brahms the alterations he made to the dilithium articulation frame, while the E-D was neck and neck with an unknown alien space whale. No one on the bridge seemed to care, or even notice. In "Cathexis" B'elanna, under the control of a disembodied Chakotay, ejects the core, and Voyager still maintains shields agains the Komar. "Day of Honor" provides yet another example, with Voyager dumping its warp core and still expecting to fight off 27 Cataati vessels with a "fully charged," as per Tuvok, weapons system, although the shield strength was "extremely low." Then there are Insurrection, where the E-E loses its warp core and still maintains shields and weapons against Ru'Afo's ship, and Nemesis, where the warp core goes offline and the E-E still fights the Scimitar. This all makes sense when you think about it from an engineering perspective, i.e. they have multiple independent power generators, enabling the ship to operate at STL even without the warp core. Given that a 4.2 gigawatt reactor was barely any larger than a washing maching in "Who Watches the Watchers," starship-scale fusion reactors could be expected to provide considerable power. When you throw the warp core into the mix, starships have tremendous levels of power at their disposal.

Cocytus, while we shield our electronic equipments, these protections do have limits.

Oh, certainly, which is why high-level ion storms and uppity stars pose problems to Federation starships, because they fall outside the normal range of what the protections can be expected to protect against.

Though I must admit, the exploding console issue is a wrench in the works.

[User1446]

The main section discusses this under "Power Generation" regarding specs on ST vs. SW fusion-generators.