The SSD vs an ambassador class and two excelsiors

For polite and reasoned discussion of Star Wars and/or Star Trek.
Lucky
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Re: The SSD vs an ambassador class and two excelsiors

Post by Lucky » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:39 am

Praeothmin wrote:
Lucky wrote:You do realize that EMC in Star Wars is just a matter of throwing some lit flares out an airlock, and that Star Wars cloaks do not hide gravitational or electromagnetic signatures? As I recall Trek powers don't even consider that sort of thing a cloaking device.
What are you talking about?
For Star Wars
SW:TCW Cat and Mouse.http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cat_and_Mouse
Anakin's stealth ship is targeted first with infrared sensors on missiles/torpedos, and he fires burning flares. This serves to cause the torpedos/missiles to target the flares.>_<

Later his cloaked ship is targeted if just barely by sensing the stealth ship's magnetic fields.

For Star Trek
I seem to remember a few story lines where they sit in orbit around a planet near the tech level of modern Earth with no one seeming to notice the ship. One of those planets was nearly finished on their first warp drive prototype, and the Enterprise was there to try and help them succeed in secret, and prepare the government for the things they would have to face.

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Praeothmin
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Re: The SSD vs an ambassador class and two excelsiors

Post by Praeothmin » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:52 pm

Lucky, Anakin's ship is targetted using the megnetic signature of the ship when it cloaks, but he had to decloak to fire before Trench could target him, and until Anakin attacked, no one knew he was there.
When the ship fired at Anakin and Anakin evaded, he wasn't able to cloak, so he was visible.

So while I admit I also believe ST claoks are superior, this version of a SW cloak is very good...

Lucky
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Re: The SSD vs an ambassador class and two excelsiors

Post by Lucky » Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:31 am

Praeothmin wrote:Lucky, Anakin's ship is targetted using the megnetic signature of the ship when it cloaks, but he had to decloak to fire before Trench could target him, and until Anakin attacked, no one knew he was there.
When the ship fired at Anakin and Anakin evaded, he wasn't able to cloak, so he was visible.

So while I admit I also believe ST claoks are superior, this version of a SW cloak is very good...
I've seen the episode. I'm stating that ECM from Star Wars will likely not work on ships from Star Trek because the sensors in Star Trek are just over all much better, and scan for more things.

Star Wars sensor are shown to work seemingly only in the electromagnetic spectrum, but Star trek sensors covers electromagnetic spectrum, gravity, and more

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Praeothmin
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Re: The SSD vs an ambassador class and two excelsiors

Post by Praeothmin » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:28 pm

Lucky wrote:Star Wars sensor are shown to work seemingly only in the electromagnetic spectrum, but Star trek sensors covers electromagnetic spectrum, gravity, and more
What's your source?

Lucky
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Re: The SSD vs an ambassador class and two excelsiors

Post by Lucky » Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:24 am

Praeothmin wrote:
Lucky wrote:Star Wars sensor are shown to work seemingly only in the electromagnetic spectrum, but Star trek sensors covers electromagnetic spectrum, gravity, and more
What's your source?
Star Trek sensors are among other things real time FTL sensors. This means they are at least not entirely EM sensors.

<P>For Star Wars: Cat and Mouse
Last edited by Lucky on Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

StarWarsStarTrek
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Re: The SSD vs an ambassador class and two excelsiors

Post by StarWarsStarTrek » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:18 pm

The Executor has a super weapon that can crack a planet's crust. It wins this minor space battle, quite easily, in one shot.

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Trinoya
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Re: The SSD vs an ambassador class and two excelsiors

Post by Trinoya » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:23 pm

I'm reasonably certain the Executor never had a crust busting super weapon...

Admiral Breetai
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Re: The SSD vs an ambassador class and two excelsiors

Post by Admiral Breetai » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:27 pm

StarWarsStarTrek wrote:The Executor has a super weapon that can crack a planet's crust. It wins this minor space battle, quite easily, in one shot.
you can show me this in the movie?

Picard
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Re: The SSD vs an ambassador class and two excelsiors

Post by Picard » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:55 pm

He is reffering to Eclipse, ship from Star Wars non-canon that was about to be Emperor's flagship.

User1468
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Re: The SSD vs an ambassador class and two excelsiors

Post by User1468 » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:43 pm

The Eclipse and Eclipse II are EU, so they are canon, just not G-level canon. The Executor class Star Dreadnought carries 5 thousand weapons, 4 thousand of which are turbos and Heavy turbos, along with 500 point-defense guns. There's another factor to consider: the Exec's fighter armament. 144 TIEs of any model are going to put a crimp on anybody's battle plan, not to mention the blastboats and assault shuttles it carries with it.

EDIT: SW ECM would probably affect ST vessels. SW ECM is depicted as being strong enough that it affects ship propulsion. fighters and capships alike are shown as having reduced speed and agility in the presence of heavy jamming.

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Praeothmin
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Re: The SSD vs an ambassador class and two excelsiors

Post by Praeothmin » Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:36 pm

144 Ties will be a nuisance to ST ships only if they carry anti-Capital ship grade missiles.
Standard Tie blaster cannons will be useless vs any ST ship, even shuttles, which can take Capship fire without exploding outright.
Plus these Ties wouldn't even impeded an unshielded ship, as they explode when struck by small asteroids (barely 1 meter across in TESB) which would not even put a dent in a ST ship...

StarWarsStarTrek
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Re: The SSD vs an ambassador class and two excelsiors

Post by StarWarsStarTrek » Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:58 pm

Praeothmin wrote:144 Ties will be a nuisance to ST ships only if they carry anti-Capital ship grade missiles.
Standard Tie blaster cannons will be useless vs any ST ship, even shuttles, which can take Capship fire without exploding outright.
Plus these Ties wouldn't even impeded an unshielded ship, as they explode when struck by small asteroids (barely 1 meter across in TESB) which would not even put a dent in a ST ship...
Eh, actually, that many tie fighters could really mess up a Federation fleet. The Federation ships aren't optimized for to hit such small craft, and really have little hope at all of hitting a tie fighter moving at such fast speeds. If the tie fighters get proton torpedos, then the Federation task force is doomed, because they'll be constantly hit by capital ship busting torpedos from ships that they can't hit. However, this doesn't really change things, because the Executor could solo. Sorry if I mistakened if for the one with the mini superlaser, but it canonically can turn a planet's surface to slag; you can debate this for an acclamator or other ship, but an Executor quite indisputably can.

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Praeothmin
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Re: The SSD vs an ambassador class and two excelsiors

Post by Praeothmin » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:42 pm

StarWarsStarTrek wrote:Eh, actually, that many tie fighters could really mess up a Federation fleet. The Federation ships aren't optimized for to hit such small craft, and really have little hope at all of hitting a tie fighter moving at such fast speeds. If the tie fighters get proton torpedos, then the Federation task force is doomed, because they'll be constantly hit by capital ship busting torpedos from ships that they can't hit. However, this doesn't really change things, because the Executor could solo. Sorry if I mistakened if for the one with the mini superlaser, but it canonically can turn a planet's surface to slag; you can debate this for an acclamator or other ship, but an Executor quite indisputably can.
Aaaaannd, where's your evidence of these claims?
ST ships have fired at fighters before, just look at DS9 battles with the Federation fighters, some of them were getting hit by enemy fire...
Plus you haven't shown us how powerful those anti-Capship proton torpedoes were, and you haven't proven how the SSD can slag a planet...

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