Does the "3 million clones" number make sense?

[Enterprise E]

I think that there were likely more than 3 million Clone Troopers, or there would be if this were more realistic. If this were Starfleet in Star Trek during the Dominion War, I might be able to understand, but mainly only because Starfleet was primarily a space organization, and the battles were really won and lost in space, with ground battles being secondary, if that. Starfleet personnel were primarily ship operators and not ground troops, those roles were often relegated to the Starfleet Marines, and maybe MACOs if those were still around in the Dominion War. In Star Wars, it seemed to me like the Clone Troopers, at least in the Clone Wars, were both the ship crews and the ground troops. Now if they were merely ground troops, I could see the three million number being reasonable since they were often helping and supporting planetary defenses against the Confederacy. But from everything I saw, they were the ground troops, ship crew, gunship pilots, and starfighter pilots, technicians, repairmen, even medics, and maybe even engineers. They were the entire Republic military in the Clone Wars. In fighting a galaxy-wide war like that (even if the galaxy is nothing more than a magellanic cloud), three million is a little small for a military if you include the ship crews, technicians, fighter pilots, etc.

[Narsil]

Imagine it this way;

There are about a million systems in the Republic/Empire, as a very loose and probably minimalistic estimate. If the average number of people per world is the same as on our own planet, there are about 6,600,000,000,000,000 Republic or Imperial citizens. Maybe a bit less, maybe a bit more, in fact it's a hell of a lot more likely to be more.

That's just over six and a half quadrillion people. In the United States, there are about three soldiers per every one thousand people. That comes out to just short of twenty trillion in Republic/Imperial terms; which is not something that is out of the question, really.

Now, this isn't supported in any way by canon, except if we take the three million clones as being one individual 'unit'. I mean, one point two million units of three million is actually quite a big number; 3,600,000,000,000, or three point six trillion. This makes much more sense as a galactic army, doesn't it?

[Mike DiCenso]

By interesting coincidence, the Sardaukar of the Dune Chronicles were organized into 10 legions, each legion being composed of 30,000 soldiers each, or 3 million strong total.
-Mike

10 x 30,000 equals 300,000 not 3 million.

Oops, you're right, Kendall. My bad. In that case, the Sardaukar are even less substantial of a force in terms of raw numbers than the Clone Troopers.
-Mike

[Mike DiCenso]

I think that there were likely more than 3 million Clone Troopers, or there would be if this were more realistic. If this were Starfleet in Star Trek during the Dominion War, I might be able to understand, but mainly only because Starfleet was primarily a space organization, and the battles were really won and lost in space, with ground battles being secondary, if that. Starfleet personnel were primarily ship operators and not ground troops, those roles were often relegated to the Starfleet Marines, and maybe MACOs if those were still around in the Dominion War. In Star Wars, it seemed to me like the Clone Troopers, at least in the Clone Wars, were both the ship crews and the ground troops. Now if they were merely ground troops, I could see the three million number being reasonable since they were often helping and supporting planetary defenses against the Confederacy. But from everything I saw, they were the ground troops, ship crew, gunship pilots, and starfighter pilots, technicians, repairmen, even medics, and maybe even engineers. They were the entire Republic military in the Clone Wars. In fighting a galaxy-wide war like that (even if the galaxy is nothing more than a magellanic cloud), three million is a little small for a military if you include the ship crews, technicians, fighter pilots, etc.

Even, then we have actual quotes from during the Dominion War where we learn that 7 million Cardassian troops have died during the course of the two years of the war. We would have to assume that there are at least equal numbers of troops in the Dominion proper, the Federation, Klingon Empire, and Romulan Star Empire forces, basd on at least one reference to "millions" fighting on the front lines.

The Clone Trooper numbers may be more numerous than a mere three million, but they do seem to fight in the capacity of bolstering up the existing armies/ militia or a particular planet.
-Mike

[Cpl Kendall]

Oops, you're right, Kendall. My bad. In that case, the Sardaukar are even less substantial of a force in terms of raw numbers than the Clone Troopers.
-Mike

IIRC the Sardaukar only employed one legion against Leto and the Emperor had to pull strings to get them there as such a large force is not commonly carried by the GUild in one go. Leto had to get there in dribs and drabs.

Fortunately the Clones are snowed under with transport.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Did Traviss say that 1 unit = 1 clonetrooper?

Did she ever say why she thought that such a number was sufficient?

To what time did that number correspond to, in SW's history, exactly?
I mean, 3 millions straight out of Kamino at the very beginning of the war, that is possible, since more clones were coming besides the million units mentionned by Lama Su or the other grey veg.

[Praeothmin]

There are about a million systems in the Republic/Empire, as a very loose and probably minimalistic estimate. If the average number of people per world is the same as on our own planet, there are about 6,600,000,000,000,000 Republic or Imperial citizens. Maybe a bit less, maybe a bit more, in fact it's a hell of a lot more likely to be more.

That seems like a bit of an exageration to me.
Look at Tattoine, Kamino, Dantoine, Endor, Kaashyyk, Naboo, Dagobah, Hoth.
We've seen as many, if not more, sparsely populated worlds in the SW movies, even in most of the novels, to know that estimating 6 or 7 billion inhabitants per world is way too much.

I think it was Mike D. that once compared the SW galaxy like one of the Earth's coutries: a few major population areas (big cities like Shanghai or Mexico) such as Coruscant and Nar Shadaa, and many smaller cities or towns, that can be compared to Tatooiine or Dagobah.

I still believe that the 3 000 000 clones is an understatement for a Galaxy-spanning civilization, but comparing the density of soldiers to that of the US also seems a bit far-fetched.

The US has always been a pro-military nation, always ready to spring into action at a moment's notice, while at the time of the Clone Wars, the Republic was coming out of an extremelly long period of peace.
It was even mentioned in the prequels that the Republic had no army to speak of, before the Clones came in the story.
They seemed to mostly rely on the standing armies of their member worlds.
As we saw in the movies, most planets had forces of their own, heck even the Trade Federation had a small army of its own which it used in the blockade, and to fight Naboo's even smaller army.

I think a better comparison would be to Canada.
A smaller army, less equipment, because it wasn't part of the mentality, since most of their problems could be controlled or solved by local forces.

[Jedi Master Spock]

I think it's reasonable for some values of Star Wars, and not reasonable for others.

It's not reasonable for a galaxy-wide conflict... unless actual ground fighting is mostly hit-and-run on skirmishes spread across mere hundreds of worlds, with local forces and space assets left in place once the main droid army is no longer active.

It's not reasonable for supplying garrisons for planetary governors... unless you believe that only one in a hundred systems received an Imperial governor with that decree.

It's perfectly reasonable for 200,000 clones at Geonosis with a million more on the way.

It's perfectly reasonable in a galaxy where a few thousand Jedi make up the command structure of the army.

It's perfectly reasonable in a galaxy where a few regiments are enough to conquer worlds.

It's perfectly reasonable in a galaxy in which a single squad of commandos is all that's needed on the ground to flip a planet from CIS to Republic control.

It's utterly ridiculous in a galaxy where a single Trade Federation battleship can pack in millions of droids in the cargo hold, or in a galaxy where the droid army numbers in the quadrillions.

It's surprisingly plausible when we think of the Clone Wars as a gigantic staged event designed to fool an audience that hasn't seen galactic war.

Personally, I don't think that any single value for clonetrooper numbers fits all the G evidence perfectly, let alone some of the EU qualifications above.

As I've said before, I don't think that it's reasonable to estimate Earth population averages for the whole Empire. 1 billion per planet is on the generous side within the original Republic worlds.

[Kane Starkiller]

As I've said before, I don't think that it's reasonable to estimate Earth population averages for the whole Empire. 1 billion per planet is on the generous side within the original Republic worlds.

Really? How do you figure that?

[Mike DiCenso]

IIRC the Sardaukar only employed one legion against Leto and the Emperor had to pull strings to get them there as such a large force is not commonly carried by the GUild in one go. Leto had to get there in dribs and drabs.

Vladimir Harkonnen tells his nephew Feyd that the Emperor has given 2 legions of Sardaukar for the venture. Thufir Hawt notes at one point that it would have taken the equivalent wealth of 50 years worth of the annual income from Arrakis for the venture. But this only emphasized the Spacing Guild's role in the conspiracy to destroy House Atreides.

Fortunately the Clones are snowed under with transport.

Yes, space travel is more or less open to whomever wants it in the SW universe.
-Mike

[Trinoya]

I had always assumed that three million clones were more than enough for what they needed... a show and ultimately a way to kill the Jedi.

Local systems field their own military forces at this point and in general are not going to be seeing major combat.

After the war ended, 3,000,000 clone troopers merely turned into 3,000,000 teachers for the new Imperial Academies, and only as an after thought when it became obvious the rebellion was starting.

So yeah, I think it is entirely possible for 3,000,000 clones to put on a show and then train the forces that will become the new imperial army. In fact, I also think it is pretty damn cost effective and a smart move on palpys part.

[Gniops]

By interesting coincidence, the Sardaukar of the Dune Chronicles were organized into 10 legions, each legion being composed of 30,000 soldiers each, or 3 million strong total.
-Mike

10 x 30,000 equals 300,000 not 3 million.

I'm wondering if this is where some of the more hilarious conclusions I've seen on this site come from, basic errors like this and Spocky's.

[Mike DiCenso]

Are you saying that you've never, ever made any kind of error in your math, Gniops? You're sounding mighty trollish and hypocritical to me.
-Mike

[Gniops]

Are you saying that you've never, ever made any kind of error in your math, Gniops? You're sounding mighty trollish and hypocritical to me.
-Mike

I'm saying exactly what I mean, I can dress it up in some flowery words if it makes you feel better ?

[Mike DiCenso]

Are you are you not saying that you've never once made any kind of a math or other error: yes or no? If you claim "no", I have to suspect that you're either being a snide troll, or you're one helluva hypocrite.
-Mike