ST vs. SG Scenario

[sonofccn]

Almost every calc there is out there for Stargate puts in pretty high up in the yields department.

I would say more like uber low(low explosives) medium(thriple digit megatons) and high (low gigatons) more or less. Sort of like Trek in that regard. Now rejecting the uber low as plot/effect error were left with the thriple megaton number as a low as possible and still be sane firepower figure.

Ha'taks sitting in the corona of a blue giant for 10 hours

Which low end suggest 80gigatons with a more medium calc pointing towards about a teraton. This is powerful but it's not uber can't hurt me no matter what.

surviving uncontrolled re-entry with only minimal damage etc.

Ditto for trek ships.

No, the problem is not the calcs. The problem is that there have been a few very cringworthy moments, like when we see a Ha'tak fire from orbit on the ground below, producing only carbomb sized explosions. And like always, the rabid anti-wankers have been quick to latch onto those instances while dismissing everything else. If you however look at the SGverse as a whole, you'll quickly see that it's quite rediculous to assume the lower showings are fact, because you'll quickly end up with a very illogical verse.

I never suggest we use the uber low. What I meant was that Mr. Oragahn suggest using one of the lowest possible firepower figures for trek(excepting of coruse the uber low I discont on both sides) Then dropped the 200 megaton yield in favor of the gigaton one to better drop the shield. Was that inhertenly wrong? No of course not, and he had grounds to do it, but it wouldn't be a minimum calc which I felt he was giving trek. I never intended nor wanted to use the uber low.

For instance, why would a civilization that has triple digit gigaton nukes yet to win a single fair ship-to-ship engagement?

Refresh my memory which nuke are we talking about? The gate buster which is IIRC high gigaton/low teraton and wasn't designed as a capship killing weapon opposed to the missiles and railguns Earth ships normaly fire. My memory is a little hazy but I thought most of the time when Earth did deploy nukes they were effective, or I'm I just thinking of Wraith here?

Why would the weapons on a Ha'tak be as powerful as the staff-weapon Teal'c carried around in a few eps? We even know that those weapons scale with size.

Never said they were, just that multi-gigaton yield per bolt is more of mid level calc.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Almost every calc there is out there for Stargate puts in pretty high up in the yields department. Ha'taks sitting in the corona of a blue giant for 10 hours, surviving uncontrolled re-entry with only minimal damage etc. It's something that naturally happens, because the producers happened to mention gigaton plus weapons that are simple to produce already in the beginning of the second season. Since then every enemy has been bigger and better then the last, often outperforming the old one in complete curbstomp fashion. Anubis was able to bring down a Beliskner that previously was nigh-undefeatable, the Replicators in turn pop Anubis' ships with only a few shots a-piece and now the Ori that pretty much curbstomp everything we've seen before, except the newest ship to hit the market (the Odyssey) that is able to completly curbstomp Ori ships. You can probably see where the power-creep is coming from?

No, the problem is not the calcs. The problem is that there have been a few very cringworthy moments, like when we see a Ha'tak fire from orbit on the ground below, producing only carbomb sized explosions. And like always, the rabid anti-wankers have been quick to latch onto those instances while dismissing everything else. If you however look at the SGverse as a whole, you'll quickly see that it's quite rediculous to assume the lower showings are fact, because you'll quickly end up with a very illogical verse.

They quite forgot that the ship belonged to Yu. The same Yu who minutes later, let Teal'c return to the planet to disclose Imhotep's true nature to the rest of the jaffas.
I don't know what happened, but with Yu, the rules were a bit different. He had more honor than the others (soer looser and other things like that).
Letting Teal'c and the jaffa survive a false bombardment probably was their reward for killing Imhotep after the suicide assaults he orchestrated.

For instance, why would a civilization that has triple digit gigaton nukes yet to win a single fair ship-to-ship engagement? Why would the weapons on a Ha'tak be as powerful as the staff-weapon Teal'c carried around in a few eps? We even know that those weapons scale with size. Why would a civilization that can create the tiniest of devices (not more then a few centimeters in diameter) that has a yield of somewhere around a kiloton be relying on energy weapons, when we know that they have larger versions of those bombs on even the most inconsequentional Ha'taks?

It was interesting to learn that ha'taks do actually come with a load of bombs, the big one Mitchell was struggling to carry in Flesh and Blood (season 10).



That was Teal'c answer to Carter complaining about how they didn't have a nuke to beam.

You also have that growing bomb, made of naqahdah, and when you pick a particle of naq and mix to a particle of potassium, it produces an explosion in a typical SGC small room that literally blows things away and puts the ceiling camera in corner off. Now you think what happens when you use several moles of each elements.

A small quantity of naqahdah could pop a 375 KT warhead into a 1 GT goa'uld busting nightmare. And that wasn't even weapon grade naqahdah.

[Mike DiCenso]

Mr. Oragahn wrote:

Mike DiCenso wrote:
Finally, another point; the firepower of the second-largest of the E-D's arrays does not necessarily scale linearly, thus the largest E-D phaser array could be orders of magnitude greater for all we know. Also, phasers are canonically stated to be much weaker than a full yeild, full spread barrage of torpedeos ("Q Who?" [TNG2], "Nth Degree" [TNG5]).

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Standard torpedoes from that same era don't seem to ever reach beyond hundreds of megatons at best, for all I've seen about TNG's figures. It's then extremely curious how the weaker phasers could actually prove much more powerful than torpedoes, despite a canon statement.
Either it has to do with the real duration it took for the Enterprise to vaporize that part of the asteroid. Do the visuals even show something that would suggest such a large volume of ice being vaporized per second?

First off, the 500 megaton yeild for a photon torpedo, is not necessarily an upper limit, and photon torpedoes are variable yeild weapons. The 100 to 150 MT yeild from "Rise" is a lower limit, as well, since the torpedo explosion geometries will deposit only about half the energy, probably much less than that. Furthermore, Robert Anderson's estimate is conservative for the simple reason that he's only describing the torpedo in terms of the energy necessary to vaporize the asteroid, not the power as the explosion clearly releases the energy in a fraction of a second.

Then there are the torpedo impacts seen in TDiC, which show lower limits in the tens of gigaton range.... well above the phaser yeild for "Masks".

Finally a clarification of sorts on the statements above; the photon torpedoes must not only be set to full yeild, but also part of a full spread (up to 5 torpedoes) to be able to so completely overwhem a phaser's output.

We barely see the curvature of the asteroid. Though I don't know if it was flattened or not, since apparently the beam on wide setting, and since there doesn't seem to be that much matter being vaporized, even if that corresponded to 10% of a second, I wonder how within 10 or 11 seconds, you could end with a vaporization of 4.189 e12 kg of comet material, that is, the whole comet if I properly understood what happened in that episode.
Mind you, I'm working from the only bits I have, and without pictures.

You can find additional screencaps at www.trekcore.com. For instance, here's an image showing the whole comet as the E-D approaches it:

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/display ... 168&pos=26


If you apply the comets curvature from the image you took from JMS' site to the comet's curvature in the image above, then combine it with a scaling of the width using the phaser beam; you'll wind up with a fairly large comet overall! Suffice to say, 2 km is a fairly conservative number.
-Mike

[Mike DiCenso]

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Let's accept torpedoe yields of 150 MT. 30 to 75 MT for phasers.
Yet JMS' site has a page with many claims about gigaton level of phaser firepower. Assuming that the matter is actually heated up in the relevant cases.

The low gigaton range numbers are perfectly doable given what we know.

* In TNG's "Who Watches the Watchers", it is stated that a fusion powerplant of 4.2 GW is enough to power a "small phaser bank", while in the later TNG episode "A Matter of Time" time we are given a clear statement that the second largest array on the E-D must not exceed a varience of .06 TW (60 GW), which in turn is described as the most critical of margins, this implying strongly that the phaser is putting out vastly greater power outputs.

Like?

Like what? We don't know. We can only guess based on the other examples shown us. But we do at least have absolute lower limits. All of which handily exceed the non-canon TNG TM's phaser output numbers.

* The large asteroid in TNG's "The Pegasus" could be destroyed using "most of" the E-D's 250 photon torpedoes. Big controversy here in the scalings, but low megaton range firepower to gigatons is possible, depending on your starting assumptions.

Any info there? Because 250 torps to get rid of an asteroid is obviously a bad point.

Depends on how big of an "asteroid" you're trying to destroy, and the goal of why you're getting rid of it in the first place. TESB asteroids aren't that impressive in size; a few meters wide. On the other hand, getting rid of one that spans possibly tens of kilometers wide is another:

The whole asteroid as seen on the viewscreen:
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/display ... 63&pos=108

Just part of the asteroid with the 1 km wide Romulan warbird next to it:
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/display ... 63&pos=130

Later, the 652 meter E-D right up next to a mere small section of the asteroid:
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/display ... 63&pos=197

Conservatively I get around 12 km for that asteroid's long axis.

Apparently, that NCC-1701 only has 96 torps.

The E-1701-A did, at some point in the 2290's.

* Then there is the controverial "The Die is Cast" planetary bombardment by a mere 20 ships, along with the statements that said fleet can strip a planet down to the core in about 6 hours time for yeilds in the modest gigaton region, and low teraton range conservatively. This is an extreme upper limit and unsual demonstration of ST firepower to say the least.

With funky visuals and extremely exotic theories... one of the very few Trek issues I've been looking closely. Trek at this time never had such a level of firepower.

You mean they never had the opportunity to display such a level of firepower before during the TNG-era.

Stripping a planet down to the core is over the top. You remove the crust and the mantle, and eventually even a part of the core. In 6 hours and 20 ships.
That's almost destroying the entire planet, bar the core. Even ships with teratons of firepower could not achieve that

.

Nevertheless, it is stated, it is shown (at least the opening volley), and it is all in a canon live-action series.

* TNG's "Masks" has the E-D melting a modest sized comet on ten percent of the second largest phaser array's power, for a yeild of around the low gigaton range.

How long did it take exactly?[/quote]

9-11 seconds depending on where exactly you decide the E-D phasers ceased fire. But certainly no more than 11 seconds.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

I would say more like uber low(low explosives) medium(thriple digit megatons) and high (low gigatons) more or less. Sort of like Trek in that regard. Now rejecting the uber low as plot/effect error were left with the thriple megaton number as a low as possible and still be sane firepower figure.

Actually, this 200 MT blast figure is one I do not like. It comes from an alternate reality.
Plus, even if it was correct, it was never said it was the higher yield the Goa'ulds could come with.

Ha'taks sitting in the corona of a blue giant for 10 hours

Which low end suggest 80gigatons with a more medium calc pointing towards about a teraton. This is powerful but it's not uber can't hurt me no matter what.

Exact, but it's still going to take a hell of a shot to dent that. Let's remember that this was based on a ship which had been previously damaged.

surviving uncontrolled re-entry with only minimal damage etc.

Ditto for trek ships.

Survived full impact crash on sea level and resisted the pressure of the water on the ocean bed.

No, the problem is not the calcs. The problem is that there have been a few very cringworthy moments, like when we see a Ha'tak fire from orbit on the ground below, producing only carbomb sized explosions. And like always, the rabid anti-wankers have been quick to latch onto those instances while dismissing everything else. If you however look at the SGverse as a whole, you'll quickly see that it's quite rediculous to assume the lower showings are fact, because you'll quickly end up with a very illogical verse.

I never suggest we use the uber low. What I meant was that Mr. Oragahn suggest using one of the lowest possible firepower figures for trek(excepting of coruse the uber low I discont on both sides)

I actually acknowledged the 150 MT yield for a standard torp, 50 MT above what RSA actually settled on.
I'm not enforcing Trek's low ends. I see that canon says that phasers are fairly weaker than certain warheads, yet several calcs put those very warheads in the megaton range, eventually, at best, low triple digit yields.
I'm still in standby atm regarding the Masks calc.
This should be cleared very soon though.

Then dropped the 200 megaton yield in favor of the gigaton one to better drop the shield. Was that inhertenly wrong? No of course not, and he had grounds to do it, but it wouldn't be a minimum calc which I felt he was giving trek. I never intended nor wanted to use the uber low.

According to a given battle and reports about shield damage, I have shown that with hitting ratios and observable ROF, even 200 MT would be too low of a yield to match the shield drop report after a bombardment over one hour, which is a hell of an absurd premise, but necessary to show that even there, the yield wasn't enough.
I always expected ha'taks to be able to deliver gigaton level bolts, especially if supposed to be able to engage ships with teraton shielding within a reasonable amount of time.
Plus my +4 gigaton level figure is only based on time elapsed on screen, plus other factors.

However, it's also based on the low end shield figure. Not on one that is two orders of magnitude higher.

It's clearly not the best kind of facts to look at, but bear with me, Stargate is particularily miserly when it comes to reliable events which you can derive firepower figures from.
Despite several clues and characters statements leaning towards the high sphere of juicy yields (a few ones for example, with Osiris digging her way with a spaceship down to an underground base located hundreds of meters under the surface, Sokar planning to renew the fires of Netu with his ha'tak), we're yet to see any bombardment from a ha'tak which has plans to torch a world.
No ground hit, no asteroid destruction. Nada.
Plus with naqahdah traces being a tricky element to take into account, we're not far from Farscape and Star Wars levels of non data. It's only in the latest seasons of SG-1 that we started to get some kind of info... and yet, not of the most useful type.

It's always undirect info. Jacob's statement that he was about to detonate a shipment of WG naqahdah which would have blown up a sizeable chunk of the planet he was on, a small goa'uld bomb still requiring the evac on an entire state of California, one of Ba'al's explosive tricks apparently being responsible of the death of billions of people, an asteroid with raw naqahdah in its core which would turn into a nova if it hit the ground, a small shipment of naqahdah being destroyed from space producing a high multi-gigaton explosion, a ha'tak crash on a planet leading to a 2-digit teraton level explosion, a supership's self destruct explosion producing of a godlike yield far above extinction level, etc.

[sonofccn]

Actually, this 200 MT blast figure is one I do not like. It comes from an alternate reality.
Plus, even if it was correct, it was never said it was the higher yield the Goa'ulds could come with.

True, but it would be a nice figure to use for "I'm bending over backwards to find a low as possible firepower figure."

Exact, but it's still going to take a hell of a shot to dent that. Let's remember that this was based on a ship which had been previously damaged.

True, I never said this would be a cakewalk for trek.

Survived full impact crash on sea level and resisted the pressure of the water on the ocean bed.

That's good but shouldn't be magnatude and magnatudes higher then trek hulls which can slam into solid ground and still be largly in one piece.

actually acknowledged the 150 MT yield for a standard torp, 50 MT above what RSA actually settled on.

I was refering when you were using the 64 MT. figure. When I made the remark that l33telboi remarked on. Not your 150 one whcih I find a much nicer yield. Sorry for misunderstanding.

According to a given battle and reports about shield damage, have I shown that with hitting ratios and observable ROF, even 200 MT would be too low of a yield to match the shield drop report after a bombardment over one hour, which is a hell of an absurd premise, but necessary to show that even there, the yield wasn't enough.

As I said thier was very good grounds to do so and makes perfect sense. I was just making a point that looking through trek one could find similar incidents( as in higher then 64 megatons) and I thought it was unfair to do that. Comparing a low calc to a medium calc or atleast more mediumish then youwere giving Trek at the time :).


Anyway I don't really care which sides wins so if a medium calc vs a medium calc shows Gate beating Trek to bits, I'm fine with it.

[l33telboi]

Refresh my memory which nuke are we talking about? The gate buster which is IIRC high gigaton/low teraton and wasn't designed as a capship killing weapon opposed to the missiles and railguns Earth ships normaly fire.

What's to stop them from using it as such? They could just beam the thing near the shields of the ship and detonate it, or they could fire it the old way and detonate it before shield impact, yet they never do this, not even in the most dire of situations.

Even in the recent episode "Dominion" the Odyssey never even entertains the idea of attacking a single Ha'tak directly, in fact it's made clear that they need the shields to not be activated for their plan to succeed. If they could overpower the ship, why not just do that? We already know the shielding tech on the Ody is superior to that of a Ha'tak, so they should have nothing to fear from it, they could just sit there and lob nukes at the ship untill they have no more of them.

My memory is a little hazy but I thought most of the time when Earth did deploy nukes they were effective, or I'm I just thinking of Wraith here?

They fired a MK 3 or a MK 7 (can't remember which one) at an unshielded ship and managed to damage it quite severly. The yield of that nuke is unknown though, recent episodes even indicate that lower tier missiles have quite considerable yields. The blast didn't manage to disable the ship though, only secondary explosions caused by exploding darts in the hangar bay were enough to finally cripple the ship.

Wraith ships have never been known for their superior defenses though, quite the opposite, they don't even employ shields. I think this point was demonstrated nicely when a Hiveship managed to destroy another with just a broadside or two. Their offense does seem to be much better then their defense.

Having said that though, we do know that even Cruisers can be shot down from orbit, plunge into the ocean and sink to a depth where the crust is just a thin layer between the ship and the mantle. And there it can survive almost intact for some ten thousand years. That makes for some quite impressive materials.

In any case, i think you missinterpreted my post as hostile, for that i apologize, i wasn't saying that you were trying to pass of the lower showings as fact. I was merely elaborating on why stuff has been the way it's always been with Stargate.

[Mr. Oragahn]

What's to stop them from using it as such? They could just beam the thing near the shields of the ship and detonate it, or they could fire it the old way and detonate it before shield impact, yet they never do this, not even in the most dire of situations.

Even in the recent episode "Dominion" the Odyssey never even entertains the idea of attacking a single Ha'tak directly, in fact it's made clear that they need the shields to not be activated for their plan to succeed. If they could overpower the ship, why not just do that? We already know the shielding tech on the Ody is superior to that of a Ha'tak, so they should have nothing to fear from it, they could just sit there and lob nukes at the ship untill they have no more of them.

I think they simply don't have enough nukes. No Man's Land has shown a fairly low number of mk3 (which was apparently all they had at that time).
They had neutron bombs on the Korolev, and depending on the materials used, they're not the most efficient thermonuclear weapons.
Their shields are tough, they're good carriers, but they never had the teeth to engage capital ships. They never had the ability to nuke spam a target. They never had giant rail/coilguns.

Even if they had nukes on the low gigaton scale, they couldn't hope to pose a menace to a ha'tak. They'd need far more ammo for that.
Plus those possible gigaton nukes may not even be as focused as the 26 MT ones used in Pegasus Project.

Basically, a 304 is a sort of fortress with no real defenses bar tough walls.
Even with a ZPM, the Odyssey had no way to route power to weapons that could exploit it.
At least if they had coilguns, fired in vacuum, so no friction at all, then more power would mean a higher acceleration... if the projectile could withstand it of course. But I think Gate has quite tough materials so this wouldn't be a problem, though the rounds would become very expensive.
But they didn't have that.

Now, the recent energy beam weapons is another thing.

They fired a MK 3 or a MK 7 (can't remember which one) at an unshielded ship and managed to damage it quite severly. The yield of that nuke is unknown though, recent episodes even indicate that lower tier missiles have quite considerable yields. The blast didn't manage to disable the ship though, only secondary explosions caused by exploding darts in the hangar bay were enough to finally cripple the ship.

Caldwell ordered all of their MK 3 to be fired at the hiveship.

Wraith ships have never been known for their superior defenses though, quite the opposite, they don't even employ shields. Having said that though, we do know that even Cruisers can be shot down from orbit, plunge into the ocean and sink to a depth where the crust is just a thin layer between the ship and the mantle. And there it can survive almost intact for some ten thousand years. That makes for some quite impressive materials.

And just like the Daedalus, a hiveship can fly inside the accretion disk of a black hole at full throttle. For something that's way more than 1 km wide and unshielded, it's interesting.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Actually, this 200 MT blast figure is one I do not like. It comes from an alternate reality.
Plus, even if it was correct, it was never said it was the higher yield the Goa'ulds could come with.

True, but it would be a nice figure to use for "I'm bending over backwards to find a low as possible firepower figure."

Frankly, I don't even think we could say that. An extremely super tightly packed conservative figure could be largely inferior to that, or superior.
I mean, that 200 MT is not the result from a calc, nor a report from a reliable source.
I hate to use data from alternate realities. :)

Survived full impact crash on sea level and resisted the pressure of the water on the ocean bed.

That's good but shouldn't be magnatude and magnatudes higher then trek hulls which can slam into solid ground and still be largly in one piece.

Like that film where a ship crashes on a frozen landscape, or a saucer landing on some greeny valley I think? The angles of appraoch and velocities seem relatively favorable to survival.
The ha'tak, on the other hand, felt like a stone.

Anyway I don't really care which sides wins so if a medium calc vs a medium calc shows Gate beating Trek to bits, I'm fine with it.

Most of the interest comes from the process of finding more info and coming with calcs and theories, but for once I'd be quite pleased to see some universe else than Trek or Wars get a bit of shining... just to shuffle the ol' house. ;)

EDIT: btw, don't be surprised if you read a small edit report at the end of posts on the previous pages. I'm re-reading them and founding typos and other weird semantics. Most of those posts have already been quoted anyway (notably the one with the beautiful orange bits).

[sonofccn]

What's to stop them from using it as such?

Unkown, but I was trying to point out that they tended to prefer less powerful weapons as thier main weapons unless railguns> then gatebusters. So the fact that they have big bombs and still have trouble fighting one on one in and of itself doesn't mean Ha'taks can shrug off Teraton weapons like pop guns.

They could just beam the thing near the shields of the ship and detonate it

as far as I know asgard were very much against giving humans offensvie capabilites and made sure we couldn't beam a nuke. Of coure later the Asgard changed that to combate the Wraith and if I remember correctly during that epic space battle at the supergate between the Ori and the gatefactions they did try and beam nukes when they couldn't pummel the Ori ships.

They fired a MK 3 or a MK 7 (can't remember which one) at an unshielded ship and managed to damage it quite severly. The yield of that nuke is unknown though, recent episodes even indicate that lower tier missiles have quite considerable yields

Well assuming a liniear desinating( a big assumption when dealing with military junk IMO) the gate buster was the mark XI IIRC so the mark 3 (7?) should be significantly less powerful.

Having said that though, we do know that even Cruisers can be shot down from orbit, plunge into the ocean and sink to a depth where the crust is just a thin layer between the ship and the mantle. And there it can survive almost intact for some ten thousand years. That makes for some quite impressive materials.

Yep stargates a mixed bag.

In any case, i think you missinterpreted my post as hostile, for that i apologize, i wasn't saying that you were trying to pass of the lower showings as fact. I was merely elaborating on why stuff has been the way it's always been with Stargate.

Well then I apologize for assuming the worst. Having lurked around spacebattles I could see why you would start off by elminating the low exposive yields

[sonofccn]

Frankly, I don't even think we could say that. An extremely super tightly packed conservative figure could be largely inferior to that, or superior.
I mean, that 200 MT is not the result from a calc, nor a report from a reliable source.
I hate to use data from alternate realities. :)

I guess, through it still a low calc which was the point I was trying to make about a now defunct point :) Also I'm sort of parcel to it because when I first heard it(before I got into the vs thing) 200 megatons sounded very impressive to me. Funny how times have changed.

Like that film where a ship crashes on a frozen landscape, or a saucer landing on some greeny valley I think? The angles of appraoch and velocities seem relatively favorable to survival.

Still nothing to sneeze at, but yeah I conceed better hulls to Ha'taks.

Most of the interest comes from the process of finding more info and coming with calcs and theories, but for once I'd be quite pleased to see some universe else than Trek or Wars get a bit of shining... just to shuffle the ol' house. ;)

I agree I always found the other verses to be intersting like WH40K or Halo, Or starcraft.

[l33telboi]

Well assuming a liniear desinating( a big assumption when dealing with military junk IMO) the gate buster was the mark XI IIRC so the mark 3 (7?) should be significantly less powerful.

I don't think we can compare Naquadriah and Naquadah bombs that simply, they have two different materials providing the extra punch after all. However, it's quite certainly a lower yield then a Gatebuster, as gatebusters are the pinnacle of Tau'ri built weapons at the moment. What i'm saying, is that it's not impossible for them to be in the double digit-gigaton range, in fact, that pretty much my thoughts on it after seeing "Family Ties", and realizing that even the first nukes designed by earth, with even just a small amount of Naquadah were "in excess of a thousand megatons".

Oh, and it's MK IX, not XI. ;)

[AnonymousRedShirtEnsign]

Most of the interest comes from the process of finding more info and coming with calcs and theories, but for once I'd be quite pleased to see some universe else than Trek or Wars get a bit of shining... just to shuffle the ol' house. ;)

I agree I always found the other verses to be intersting like WH40K or Halo, Or starcraft.

I'll debate Halo, nBSG, and soon B5 (hooray for netflix and libraries). I'm unknowledgeable about WH40k and Star Craft so I probably won't debate those. How about Simpsons vs South Park :)

[sonofccn]

Oh, and it's MK IX, not XI. ;)

Crummy roman numerals.:)

I don't know the yield of the mark three but the "space mines" employed in the siege part 2 and 3 were about 1.2 gigatons in yield and they had like six of them. Those were expected to hurt the hive ships through how much it open to debate. The general attitude in my opinion was that everything they were doing was a holding action until the Earth ship arrived.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Oh, and it's MK IX, not XI. ;)

Crummy roman numerals.:)

I don't know the yield of the mark three but the "space mines" employed in the siege part 2 and 3 were about 1.2 gigatons in yield and they had like six of them. Those were expected to hurt the hive ships through how much it open to debate. The general attitude in my opinion was that everything they were doing was a holding action until the Earth ship arrived.

It's more like they hoped it would do something to hiveships. They never fought against capital ships, and any tactical report they could rely on was how internal explosions caused some damage and widespread fires inside a resting hiveship covered by soil and trees all around.

As you say, it was probably just a case of better have something than nothing.