Starfleet Jedi

The Terran Dominion has rebuilt it's forces after it's catastrophic defeat at the hands of Kerrigan at the end of the Brood War, and is beginning expansion once again. It comes to a system known to it's inhabitants as Lylat, and finds that the inhabitants are - for all intents and purposes - anthropomorphic Earth animals. Seeing that they're so closely related to Earth life-forms, Mengsk decides to annex Lylat, while his fleet holds over the capital world of Corneria. However, just before they can formally annex it, a fleet of green bird-shaped starships arrives in the system, and announces that the system's been claimed in the name of the Romulan Star Empire. Considering how arrogant both governments are, the two fleets start fighting.

Quantifications:

Terran Dominion
Fighters:
200 Wraiths
150 Vikings

Middle-class Starships:
50 Valkyrie-class Frigates
45 Science Vessels

Capital Ships:
20 Behemoth-class Battlecruisers
15 Hercules-class Battlecruisers



Romulan Star Empire
Fighters:
175 Interceptors (They were mentioned by Quark in DS9)
175 Scorpions

Middle-class Starships:
100 Scoutships

Capital Ships:
15 D'Deridex-class Warbirds
15 Norexan (Valdore)-class Warbirds



Whoever wins this battle gets control of Lylat. So who wins?

Both sides nearly wipe out each other I'd say. Nice selection of nearly equally powered foes.

Wait. How are the Terrans supposed to stop the Scimitar?
Besides, the Apo missiles, depending on the sources (there are two of them) are either launched from warships or from another planet.
In the first case, they can be intercepted as long as the ship are taken down, and the missiles themselves may not be fast enough to avoid destruction.
In the second case, depending how close the FTL drives can bring them to their target (if they use FTL btw), they may be unstoppable or, on the contrary, targets of choice if they have to revert to STL.

Concerning firepower, I'm not sure how the Terrans fare. I don't recall being that much impressed by their offensive or even defensive capabilities. I don't even recall shields worth the mention, or even shields at all.

Terrans do have FTL, in a way kinda like hyperspace from, well, most every franchise. Except it's called warp drive. Terran vessels normally lack shields, although the newer Hercules-class Battlecruisers have their own defensive matrix generators, which are basically primitive shields. As l33telboi mentioned a while back, the guns from marines, while quite impressive, don't work on Wraiths or anything bigger. Granted, they do in the game, but in the novels (which are canon), they don't. Except for Shadow of the Xel'Naga, but since that one was written by Kevin J. Anderson, it reads more like lousy fan fiction, and is contradicted by every other novel in the series.

While the old battlecruisers only had lasers and a Yamato Gun - which worked by containing a nuclear explosion in a magnetic field, and then concentrating it as a beam, newer ones also have plasma cannons and nuclear warheads. Granted, not nearly as powerful as the ones the Ghosts call down, but nukes nontheless. From the novels and cinematics, I'm estimating that ST and SC are of similar firepower levels.

The trickiest part is finding the Scimitar. Science Vessels would be able to detect cloaked objects normally, and then most likely relay the location back to other ships. However, given the fact that Geordi said that the Scimmie's cloak was "perfect", that may be a more difficult task. Of course, when the thing's firing at you, the parts of the hull that light up would reveal the ship.

The Terrans lack of shields would mean that Romulans could beam over troops to their ships. However, this would only faze the Terrans for a bit, considering that in the StarCraft Terran Campaign, Terran teleportation systems are seen.

Oh god, they called it the YAMATO GUN??
They never stop ripping shit off, don't they?

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Oh god, they called it the YAMATO GUN??
They never stop ripping shit off, don't they?

I got that reference too when I first saw it. But that seems more like an homage to Starblazers (Space Battleship Yamato) As for the whole SC-v-40K thing, I've studied 40K, and it's done PLENTY of ripping off.

Here's How:
Eldar was the term used by Tolkein to name the High Elves in The Silmarillion.
The Space Marines. The term "Space Marine" was coined by Heinlein.

Here we see 'nids before StarCraft and the Zerg came out:
http://www.omegahobbies.com/images/556_Hive_Tyrant.jpg

And After:
http://kofler.dot.at/40k/units/Tyranid_ ... rant_2.gif

And now we see a picture of a Zerg Hydralisk:
http://qtan.homestead.com/files/hydralisk.jpg

This is a case of 40K ripping off SC. Ironic, huh?

Maybe I'm wrong, and if I am please feel free to correct me, but Star Craft "naval" forces don't strike as on par to the 24th century Romulans. I always pegged them at more at a 22nd century with heavy reliance on nukes for their heavies compared to the widespread anti-matter heavies the Romulans must contend with.

My guess? The TD puts up a bloody fight but ultimatly the Romulans are the victors due to both superior firepower and superior shielding which make their ships flying fortresses.

sonofccn wrote:Maybe I'm wrong, and if I am please feel free to correct me, but Star Craft "naval" forces don't strike as on par to the 24th century Romulans. I always pegged them at more at a 22nd century with heavy reliance on nukes for their heavies compared to the widespread anti-matter heavies the Romulans must contend with.

My guess? The TD puts up a bloody fight but ultimatly the Romulans are the victors due to both superior firepower and superior shielding which make their ships flying fortresses.

But that's why I gave them Science Vessels! The EMP should take out the Romulan ships shields. At least, I think. I don't really know what effect EMPs have on ST ships. As for the TD superweapons, l33telboi mentioned that each Apocalypse-class Nuke had a yield of 735 teratons. Looking back, I think I should lower the amounts of supernukes in this. Hold on... Done.

There's no way starcraft forces are close to being equal ship to ship. Romulans will take this.

Other than the better (or actually existent starship shielding) the Romulans have better firepower and of course range. Question, was there ever an orbital bombardment in starcraft by the battlecruisers?

Also, the Scimitar has it's superweapon which works great against the unshielded, so after seven minutes the terran fleet's crew is all dead.

The Terran nukes sound way too overpowered...I have a feeling that someone exaggerated the math or there was some bad writing involved...so since terran firepower doesn't come close to those nukes and since nukes are so slow and easily avoided by star ships they are a non factor.

To put this matchup in perspective. The terran ships are like the Enterprise era Fed ships and the Romulan ships are like the TNG Fed ships. (note: I'd be almost willing to give terrans TOS Fed firepower because of yamato and defensive matrix...maybe pre-TOS)

TNG wins...Romulans win.

Sunburst wrote:There's no way starcraft forces are close to being equal ship to ship. Romulans will take this.

Other than the better (or actually existent starship shielding) the Romulans have better firepower and of course range. Question, was there ever an orbital bombardment in starcraft by the battlecruisers?

Also, the Scimitar has it's superweapon which works great against the unshielded, so after seven minutes the terran fleet's crew is all dead.

The Terran nukes sound way too overpowered...I have a feeling that someone exaggerated the math or there was some bad writing involved...so since terran firepower doesn't come close to those nukes and since nukes are so slow and easily avoided by star ships they are a non factor.

To put this matchup in perspective. The terran ships are like the Enterprise era Fed ships and the Romulan ships are like the TNG Fed ships. (note: I'd be almost willing to give terrans TOS Fed firepower because of yamato and defensive matrix...maybe pre-TOS)

TNG wins...Romulans win.

Battlecruisers are shown carrying out orbital bombardment in one of the novels, which are canon. As for the nukes having that yield, it was said that a thousand Apocalypse-class nukes turned the surface of Korhal into glass. And Korhal was described as being an Earth-like planet. Calculations show that for that to be possible, each nuke would have to have a 735 teraton yield, but just one is normally considered overkill.

Will the Romulans win? Most likely.
Will it be an easy fight? Hell No!

Khas wrote: But that's why I gave them Science Vessels! The EMP should take out the Romulan ships shields

My "gut instinct" was to say they would fissel and point to the nuke used in Balance of Terror[TOS] but than I remembered that these "EMP" weapons knock out Protos shields if I'm not mistaken which are powered in part by the mind I believe. These missiles might not therefore operate as we might normally know a Electro-Magnetic Pulse to so I'd have to change my guess to the Science vessels have at least the possibility in knocking out shielding.

Khas wrote:As for the nukes having that yield, it was said that a thousand Apocalypse-class nukes turned the surface of Korhal into glass.

Do we have any data on how far insystem they can drop into real space, how quickly they can intercept a target, etc... Bear in mind even the most wallowing Warbird is more evasive than a planet.

All told I think the Dominion has the worse set of superweapons. As Suburst mentioned the Scimitar can evelope thier entire formation, while cloaked IIRC, and wipe them out before they even know it's there. That in addition that conventially it is a very tough nut to crack and could take out a few vessels that way. I'd say scrape the superweapons for both sides, subtract 5 "Heavy" romulan ships and add another ten "Heavy" Dominion ones.

Khas wrote:Battlecruisers are shown carrying out orbital bombardment in one of the novels, which are canon. As for the nukes having that yield, it was said that a thousand Apocalypse-class nukes turned the surface of Korhal into glass. And Korhal was described as being an Earth-like planet. Calculations show that for that to be possible, each nuke would have to have a 735 teraton yield, but just one is normally considered overkill.

Will the Romulans win? Most likely.
Will it be an easy fight? Hell No!

As I said to l33telboi at SBC when we talked about those weapons, they are nuclear weapons, which means there's a limit to how much energy you can obtain from a given mass. It became obvious that those missiles would be large, as wide.
However one source describes them as smaller than dropships.
I'd some reading:

A small thread dealing with Khoral and Apo missiles. You can notice how the universe is in many ways pure coolness and nothing else. See Khoral, Coruscanted within four years from what formerly was a dirt ball, despite the Terrans never having shown such an industrial might.
This thread, which contains most of the relevant quotes, notably on the latest pages. I made some observations there about the descriptions of the destruction of Khoral.

Mr. Oragahn wrote:

Khas wrote:Battlecruisers are shown carrying out orbital bombardment in one of the novels, which are canon. As for the nukes having that yield, it was said that a thousand Apocalypse-class nukes turned the surface of Korhal into glass. And Korhal was described as being an Earth-like planet. Calculations show that for that to be possible, each nuke would have to have a 735 teraton yield, but just one is normally considered overkill.

Will the Romulans win? Most likely.
Will it be an easy fight? Hell No!

As I said to l33telboi at SBC when we talked about those weapons, they are nuclear weapons, which means there's a limit to how much energy you can obtain from a given mass. It became obvious that those missiles would be large, as wide.
However one source describes them as smaller than dropships.
I'd some reading:

A small thread dealing with Khoral and Apo missiles. You can notice how the universe is in many ways pure coolness and nothing else. See Khoral, Coruscanted within four years from what formerly was a dirt ball, despite the Terrans never having shown such an industrial might.
This thread, which contains most of the relevant quotes, notably on the latest pages. I made some observations there about the descriptions of the destruction of Khoral.

Actually, the "Coruscant" scene on Korhal was only from the capital city of Augustgrad. Most of the planet still remains a nuclear desert, and the evidence comes from two sources in the game itself.
1) When fighting on Korhal in the campaign, the planet is shown as a desert.
2) In one of the briefings, Stukov says that "radiation levels are at an all-time low." This indicates that there is still a fairly significant amount of radiation on the planet even years after the nuking.

Khas wrote:As for the TD superweapons, l33telboi mentioned that each Apocalypse-class Nuke had a yield of 735 teratons. Looking back, I think I should lower the amounts of supernukes in this. Hold on... Done.

That's working from the assumption that the nukes boiled all the oceans on Korhal and that the amount of water was similar to earth (don't remember the exact figure I got though). It's definitely possible that's the case, but we can't be sure. Single-digit teratons would be something I'd call more likely.

Actually, the "Coruscant" scene on Korhal was only from the capital city of Augustgrad. Most of the planet still remains a nuclear desert, and the evidence comes from two sources in the game itself.
1) When fighting on Korhal in the campaign, the planet is shown as a desert.
2) In one of the briefings, Stukov says that "radiation levels are at an all-time low." This indicates that there is still a fairly significant amount of radiation on the planet even years after the nuking.

He's talking about what Korhal looks like in Starcraft II. Not how it looked like in Broodwars. The planet went from this to this within the timespan of four years.

Oraghan wrote:See Khoral, Coruscanted within four years from what formerly was a dirt ball, despite the Terrans never having shown such an industrial might.

The terrans have always been incredibly industrious, and large-sized orbital platforms are common as dirt. The largest one covering an entire hemisphere of a planet and this constructed by a small fringe world colony. So there's precedent for what happened at Korhal.

l33telboi wrote:

Khas wrote:As for the TD superweapons, l33telboi mentioned that each Apocalypse-class Nuke had a yield of 735 teratons. Looking back, I think I should lower the amounts of supernukes in this. Hold on... Done.

That's working from the assumption that the nukes boiled all the oceans on Korhal and that the amount of water was similar to earth (don't remember the exact figure I got though). It's definetly possible that's the case, but we can't be sure. Single-digit teratons would be something I'd call more likely.

Ah. Still, that's more than enough to take down the Scimmie. Along with just about everything else.

Eh, I think I'll go with sonofccn's suggestion and just remove the superweapons.