Starfleet Jedi

basically what it says on the Tin after the events of Nemesis a stable wormhole is found to the Ida Galaxy, after several weeks of exploring they hear Rumors of the Asgard and begin seeking them out

the replicators are eliminated in this setting and the Asgard are seeking to deal with they're own cloning issues when the feds show up in they're back door

this isn't a vs match per say merely how they'd interact with each other and how any relations between the two would go?

bonus: if they found a stable wormhole to the Sg1 version of the milky way around the time of Ra's empire after making contact with the asgard

I guess not much. The Asgards will certainly be impressed by the UFP's level of technology, but may not want to trade tech. Things may not change much. What they would look like is something to fix their genomic degradation, but I'm not sure the UFP has anything worthwhile to offer. Other than that, I'm pretty sure the Asgards will maintain good diplomatic relations, but both sides will try not to step on each others' toes.

As for the bonus, that's clearly more versus looking. I can see the UFP being interested in the Goa'uld hyperdrive, sarcophagus and other healing devices, plus the weird fold-metal tech. They'd also like to get a hold on some stargates and DHDs.

All gets problematic the moment the UFP meets the Goa'uld for the first time. First Contact will most likely be bloody. From there, there's no guarantee that the UFP will even want to bother go into the SG-MW and do anything there. Same for the Goa'uld. They'll surely try to protect their respective sides of the wormhole as much as possible. The Goa'uld, on the other hand, could really become excited about some bits of tech, and may see the existence of the UFP, advanced humans and alien allies, as a threat. Both sides will probably attempt to gather intel, possibly with the use of cloaked ships, in which department the Goa'uld have a slight advantage. But really, I figure they'll just fortress both ends of the wormhole.

Mr. Oragahn wrote:I guess not much. The Asgards will certainly be impressed by the UFP's level of technology, but may not want to trade tech. Things may not change much. What they would look like is something to fix their genomic degradation, but I'm not sure the UFP has anything worthwhile to offer. Other than that, I'm pretty sure the Asgards will maintain good diplomatic relations, but both sides will try not to step on each others' toes.

I wouldn't say that. The UFP has some advanced medical and sensor technology, there might be something there the Asgard could use to their advantage. The UFP would also be more than willing to help the Asgard with anything they could. I doubt the UFP is even as advanced as the Asgard, but they'd be glad to have the help I'd think.

Also, the UFP does tend to pull off their own miracles, you never know.

As for the bonus, that's clearly more versus looking. I can see the UFP being interested in the Goa'uld hyperdrive, sarcophagus and other healing devices, plus the weird fold-metal tech. They'd also like to get a hold on some stargates and DHDs.

The UFP would kill for stargate technology.

All gets problematic the moment the UFP meets the Goa'uld for the first time. First Contact will most likely be bloody. From there, there's no guarantee that the UFP will even want to bother go into the SG-MW and do anything there. Same for the Goa'uld. They'll surely try to protect their respective sides of the wormhole as much as possible. The Goa'uld, on the other hand, could really become excited about some bits of tech, and may see the existence of the UFP, advanced humans and alien allies, as a threat. Both sides will probably attempt to gather intel, possibly with the use of cloaked ships, in which department the Goa'uld have a slight advantage. But really, I figure they'll just fortress both ends of the wormhole.

Hmm, interesting. Actually, I think the Asgard could maybe use the UFP to take out the Goa'uld. It wouldn't be something they'd like, but it would save humanity and other lesser species. They could simply give the UFP hyperdrive technology and let the two clash. The Goa'uld of course have more powerful ships, but their military is laughable and their industry is rather poor. The UFP, on a full blown war mode could probably walk right over them--especially if the Asgard give them some of their own technology in exchange.

Mith wrote:

Mr. Oragahn wrote:I guess not much. The Asgards will certainly be impressed by the UFP's level of technology, but may not want to trade tech. Things may not change much. What they would look like is something to fix their genomic degradation, but I'm not sure the UFP has anything worthwhile to offer. Other than that, I'm pretty sure the Asgards will maintain good diplomatic relations, but both sides will try not to step on each others' toes.

I wouldn't say that. The UFP has some advanced medical and sensor technology, there might be something there the Asgard could use to their advantage. The UFP would also be more than willing to help the Asgard with anything they could. I doubt the UFP is even as advanced as the Asgard, but they'd be glad to have the help I'd think.

Also, the UFP does tend to pull off their own miracles, you never know.

I haven't see anything the UFP holds that would impress the Asgards medtech wise. They'd also lack any insight in the process of mass cloning over something like more than a thousand generations.
But the Asgards would still accept any help, although they will probably be more cautious considering the overall might and technological advancement of the UFP.

As for the bonus, that's clearly more versus looking. I can see the UFP being interested in the Goa'uld hyperdrive, sarcophagus and other healing devices, plus the weird fold-metal tech. They'd also like to get a hold on some stargates and DHDs.

The UFP would kill for stargate technology.

Trouble is, not even the Asgards have proven to know how to build them. Only the Tollans, with the help of the Nox, built a new one. The Nox were the most advanced of both, and lived in isolation.

All gets problematic the moment the UFP meets the Goa'uld for the first time. First Contact will most likely be bloody. From there, there's no guarantee that the UFP will even want to bother go into the SG-MW and do anything there. Same for the Goa'uld. They'll surely try to protect their respective sides of the wormhole as much as possible. The Goa'uld, on the other hand, could really become excited about some bits of tech, and may see the existence of the UFP, advanced humans and alien allies, as a threat. Both sides will probably attempt to gather intel, possibly with the use of cloaked ships, in which department the Goa'uld have a slight advantage. But really, I figure they'll just fortress both ends of the wormhole.

Hmm, interesting. Actually, I think the Asgard could maybe use the UFP to take out the Goa'uld. It wouldn't be something they'd like, but it would save humanity and other lesser species. They could simply give the UFP hyperdrive technology and let the two clash. The Goa'uld of course have more powerful ships, but their military is laughable and their industry is rather poor. The UFP, on a full blown war mode could probably walk right over them--especially if the Asgard give them some of their own technology in exchange.

Could happen, indeed. They seem to be waiting for humanity to be up there on the scale of things, and the UFP is the Fifth Race super deluxe in comparison to the SGC's own little world of jealously coveted tech.
If they do so, boy the UFP would probably steamroll the Goa'uld in no time flat. Now, hyperdrives are rather hungry beasts, but whatever the UFP would get from hyperdrive even on a low to medium end in terms of speeds would still be a plus and allow for greater strategical liberties of movement. They could also gain some mad range sensors btw.
The irony of it is that the UFP would not be allowed to make contact with SG Earth since they're not capable of anything like FTL travel.
Since we're at a time when Ra overules the Goa'uld dominion and the Asgards have their cloning issues, we may go quite long time back.

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
I haven't see anything the UFP holds that would impress the Asgards medtech wise. They'd also lack any insight in the process of mass cloning over something like more than a thousand generations.
But the Asgards would still accept any help, although they will probably be more cautious considering the overall might and technological advancement of the UFP.

They do have access to a vast medical database full of stuff about species the Asgard do not know, there is also Wesley who turned out to be pretty advanced according to the traveler and as long as they do not meet him the Asgard may wanna look into using his DNA.

Trouble is, not even the Asgards have proven to know how to build them. Only the Tollans, with the help of the Nox, built a new one. The Nox were the most advanced of both, and lived in isolation.

The Asgard were way more advanced than the Tollans from what i could see and Nox tech is a bit of a unknown but i still think the Asgard could easily make a stargate.

Hmm, interesting. Actually, I think the Asgard could maybe use the UFP to take out the Goa'uld. It wouldn't be something they'd like, but it would save humanity and other lesser species. They could simply give the UFP hyperdrive technology and let the two clash. The Goa'uld of course have more powerful ships, but their military is laughable and their industry is rather poor. The UFP, on a full blown war mode could probably walk right over them--especially if the Asgard give them some of their own technology in exchange.

UFP could easily use hyperdrive tech i think as they already generate enough power to activate it they just need the propulsion tech to open the hyperspace window itself, they would also only need Asgard shield tech for the same reasons.

one would think since Asgard do use subspace that any research they do from borrowed tech would probably negate the need for hyperspace QSD was nearly doable post Dominion war on a POS scout ship...so with a little help from Terra's tiny friends and all might eliminate the power generation issues for Hyperspace

for the snake heads I think the UFP has the advantage of being much faster STL and more maneuverable with better firing archs I'd think a battle between a mothership and a GCS would be akin to a blue whale trying to fend off an orca more or less..not sure if there is that much of a fire power disparity between the two but if there is..just from what I saw during SG a fed ship can just buzz around the sucker all day peppering it and not really worry about getting nailed unless the captain gets stupid and gets too close

I mean barring those juggernaut style capital ships the chief snake heads used that might take a dedicated group effort

as for Fed med tech while it probably isn't anywhere near as advanced as the ancients or something it's by far more sophisticated than anything in SGU and technologies like retro viruses that grant obscene long life (granted it went out of control and killed all the grown ups but IIRC Mccoy cured it) and such things aren't alien to a Fed medical database they where advanced enough any ways to program a disease to kill what amounted to sentient breast implant gel (the founders) after all

I dont know if they'd be able to definitively cure the asgard or do so easily but working together maybe buy more time..for them to figure out whats what.


theres also the alternative of downloading the Asgard minds into a huge world computer or something..and then using holograms to interact so as to avoid any more cloning..mass conscience storing by ancient races is tech they did encounter before..and while they may not be able to backwards engineer it..sending the Asgard that way or giving them any reports and info on the stuff is doable

maybe jean Luc going with Thor to meet "kevin" or the organians to see if they'll help?

thoughts?

Admiral Breetai wrote:one would think since Asgard do use subspace that any research they do from borrowed tech would probably negate the need for hyperspace QSD was nearly doable post Dominion war on a POS scout ship...so with a little help from Terra's tiny friends and all might eliminate the power generation issues for Hyperspace

Generally, the anti-Trek side says something like the QSD was a near total failure, and only worked for a limited time under special conditions.

for the snake heads I think the UFP has the advantage of being much faster STL and more maneuverable with better firing archs I'd think a battle between a mothership and a GCS would be akin to a blue whale trying to fend off an orca more or less..not sure if there is that much of a fire power disparity between the two but if there is..just from what I saw during SG a fed ship can just buzz around the sucker all day peppering it and not really worry about getting nailed unless the captain gets stupid and gets too close

Ha'taks are not slow at all. Even the good old Prometheus was stated to be capable of achieving 110,000 mps.
Those ships have crossed an AU quite fast, both when Apophis came to Earth with his ships for the first time, and when his fleet started playing cast and mouse with SG-1 and their own Ha'tak in the Vorash system.
However, they don't seem to achieve those speeds with some warp trick.
As for firing arcs, Ha'taks are simply one of the best designs out there. There's not a single angle they can't aim at.

as for Fed med tech while it probably isn't anywhere near as advanced as the ancients or something it's by far more sophisticated than anything in SGU and technologies like retro viruses that grant obscene long life (granted it went out of control and killed all the grown ups but IIRC Mccoy cured it) and such things aren't alien to a Fed medical database they where advanced enough any ways to program a disease to kill what amounted to sentient breast implant gel (the founders) after all

If he cured it properly it would already be used after that. Chances that by curing the side effects, it totally nullified the main one as well.
Besides, the tech aboard Destiny is severely outdated - which is quite funny because the crippled ship was still taking dives into blue giant stars.
Oh well...
Even in Atlantis, the Terrans were largely stuck using whatever the Lanteans had decided to leave. That is, not much. They never had any advanced hand weapon for one, yet we know that at least two variants existed (the mike gun or ice cream cone and the more classical pistol).
There wasn't a single exploration drone available, although we know that from SGU, they had already the Kino technology.
There wasn't a single healing system that the Terrans could have used. All they were left with was a scanning machine, everything else was Earth-level medical stuff.
Not even one of those suits we saw the Vasir wear, which obviously were of Lantean design, and which existed as some older variant and found aboard Destiny.
Plus the Asurans, who simply copied all their tech from their progenitors, had biotech that could build real human bodies from scratch, molecule by molecule ("Ghost in the Machine"). The advantages of being able to build any cell and organ that way are quite obvious. Then they would transfer their minds into those bodies. The whole replicate of Atlantis made by rebel Asurans was populated that way.

I dont know if they'd be able to definitively cure the asgard or do so easily but working together maybe buy more time..for them to figure out whats what.

theres also the alternative of downloading the Asgard minds into a huge world computer or something..and then using holograms to interact so as to avoid any more cloning..mass conscience storing by ancient races is tech they did encounter before..and while they may not be able to backwards engineer it..sending the Asgard that way or giving them any reports and info on the stuff is doable

maybe jean Luc going with Thor to meet "kevin" or the organians to see if they'll help?

thoughts?

The Asgards have already stored their minds in computers and used time dilation technology. They could certainly buy some time, but I'm not sure how it will make any difference there, especially since they most likely already pushed their own tech to its limits (they'd be rather stupid not to do so, and we know that they do love to push their tech hard, a bit too hard in fact).
But they seem to have refused the idea of storing themselves into computers forever, preferring to blow up Orilla (which they had settled something like three years prior), along themselves.
Perhaps something due to some anti-bot bias after what the Replicators did to their civilization.
Their problem was so complex that they couldn't reverse anything, even when working with the in-stasis body of an 30K years older Asgard who didn't display the same deformities as the current ones did.
Then, due to plot fiat, they found a cure which was actually not one but they all got their flu shot and found that they were screwed. Writers erased them from SG-1 ("Unending").

Mr. Oragahn wrote:[

Generally, the anti-Trek side says something like the QSD was a near total failure, and only worked for a limited time under special conditions.

and it can easily be pointed out that, that was due mostly to PIS and the fact that Torres was basically trying to do a starbase plus work load and prototype level research in the lab of a scout ship which was diminished and run by a lunatic

they still made use of it and iirc I have a great deal of trouble buying that when they got back...within a couple decades that was not mass deployable for trek

Mr. Oragahn wrote:[

Ha'taks are not slow at all. Even the good old Prometheus was stated to be capable of achieving 110,000 mps.
Those ships have crossed an AU quite fast, both when Apophis came to Earth with his ships for the first time, and when his fleet started playing cast and mouse with SG-1 and their own Ha'tak in the Vorash system.
However, they don't seem to achieve those speeds with some warp trick.
As for firing arcs, Ha'taks are simply one of the best designs out there. There's not a single angle they can't aim at.

I',m talking about insane twists and turns and fighter like movements ST ships seem capable of more then anything else

Mr. Oragahn wrote:[
If he cured it properly it would already be used after that. Chances that by curing the side effects, it totally nullified the main one as well.

he cured it by destroying the Virus completely thus rendering the whole point of it moot (in the ep it said it was able to give an average human the life span ten or so millenium but backfired) but IIRC he made a copy of the bug or at least documented it

Mr. Oragahn wrote:[Besides, the tech aboard Destiny is severely outdated - which is quite funny because the crippled ship was still taking dives into blue giant stars.
Oh well...

in general it seemed the ancients had terrible luck with medical tech as advanced as they were that plague did them in and their answer to it was the healing device and the cube of zombies

Mr. Oragahn wrote:[
There wasn't a single healing system that the Terrans could have used. All they were left with was a scanning machine, everything else was Earth-level medical stuff.
Not even one of those suits we saw the Vasir wear, which obviously were of Lantean design, and which existed as some older variant and found aboard Destiny.
Plus the Asurans, who simply copied all their tech from their progenitors, had biotech that could build real human bodies from scratch, molecule by molecule ("Ghost in the Machine"). The advantages of being able to build any cell and organ that way are quite obvious. Then they would transfer their minds into those bodies. The whole replicate of Atlantis made by rebel Asurans was populated that way.

there is no excuse for the Asgardians death then other then plot induced idiocy and or...abject trolling on the ancients part

Mr. Oragahn wrote:[
The Asgards have already stored their minds in computers and used time dilation technology. They could certainly buy some time, but I'm not sure how it will make any difference there, especially since they most likely already pushed their own tech to its limits (they'd be rather stupid not to do so, and we know that they do love to push their tech hard, a bit too hard in fact).
But they seem to have refused the idea of storing themselves into computers forever, preferring to blow up Orilla (which they had settled something like three years prior), along themselves.
Perhaps something due to some anti-bot bias after what the Replicators did to their civilization.

how far did they push their bio tech though? it seems that much of their research was hindered by their own hatred of complex machinery

Mr. Oragahn wrote:[Their problem was so complex that they couldn't reverse anything, even when working with the in-stasis body of an 30K years older Asgard who didn't display the same deformities as the current ones did.
Then, due to plot fiat, they found a cure which was actually not one but they all got their flu shot and found that they were screwed. Writers erased them from SG-1 ("Unending").

nano machines constantly regenerating the damage tissue of their clones? I mean they had methods open to them they refused

they also could of just "downgraded" themselves but refused to do so

Admiral Breetai wrote:basically what it says on the Tin after the events of Nemesis a stable wormhole is found to the Ida Galaxy, after several weeks of exploring they hear Rumors of the Asgard and begin seeking them out

the replicators are eliminated in this setting and the Asgard are seeking to deal with they're own cloning issues when the feds show up in they're back door

this isn't a vs match per say merely how they'd interact with each other and how any relations between the two would go?

bonus: if they found a stable wormhole to the Sg1 version of the milky way around the time of Ra's empire after making contact with the asgard

The Asgard take a look at Federation law, and decide to at least look into various technologies that may help them, and given the now larger number of races may find their cure.

Given absurd number of negative space wedgies in the Star Trek Galaxy they take part in joint scientific missions if not become full members.

Do Star Trek and Star Gate shields work the same way?

Mr. Oragahn wrote:I haven't see anything the UFP holds that would impress the Asgards medtech wise. They'd also lack any insight in the process of mass cloning over something like more than a thousand generations.
But the Asgards would still accept any help, although they will probably be more cautious considering the overall might and technological advancement of the UFP.

Actually, they could probably outfit a ship with a cloak and use the slingshot effect to time travel back in time to take a sample of the "proto-Asgard" and use that. And as far as cloning technology, they do have it in Star Trek. One DS9 episode has some petty Bajoran criminal using a clone to try and frame Odo for murder.

Trouble is, not even the Asgards have proven to know how to build them. Only the Tollans, with the help of the Nox, built a new one. The Nox were the most advanced of both, and lived in isolation.

Hmmm, good point. But perhaps hyperdrive then? Even a slower, weaker one would do wonders for the UFP.

Could happen, indeed. They seem to be waiting for humanity to be up there on the scale of things, and the UFP is the Fifth Race super deluxe in comparison to the SGC's own little world of jealously coveted tech.

They're more than one species, you know. :p

If they do so, boy the UFP would probably steamroll the Goa'uld in no time flat. Now, hyperdrives are rather hungry beasts, but whatever the UFP would get from hyperdrive even on a low to medium end in terms of speeds would still be a plus and allow for greater strategical liberties of movement. They could also gain some mad range sensors btw.

I never really thought that hyperdrive was that energy intensive. I mean, SG Earth can power them, right? I'm sure we won't be seeing intergalactic travel going on for some time, but I'd think that they'd be able to supply power in most cases.

The irony of it is that the UFP would not be allowed to make contact with SG Earth since they're not capable of anything like FTL travel.

That is a shame.

Since we're at a time when Ra overules the Goa'uld dominion and the Asgards have their cloning issues, we may go quite long time back.

Wait, didn't older Goa'uld ships move at low c values? I thought that was mentioned at the end of season 1 when Teal'c said they'd have years before the Goa'uld reached Earth--and was then shocked when they arrived in hours/days.

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Generally, the anti-Trek side says something like the QSD was a near total failure, and only worked for a limited time under special conditions.

Likely due to the confusion of its variant.

You see, the original QS worked like a charm. It's just that Voyager didn't have the means to create a stream, they could only ride it. They later created a variant on the technology using funky crystals that made it super-duper fast, but the ship was apparently unable to make the course corrections fast enough so it ended up being a failure.

We also know that Seven was familiar with transwarp (ie, similar to nature as QS), so I wouldn't say that Starfleet not developing QT in the near future is off the table. However no, they haven't actually developed the technology.

Ha'taks are not slow at all. Even the good old Prometheus was stated to be capable of achieving 110,000 mps.
Those ships have crossed an AU quite fast, both when Apophis came to Earth with his ships for the first time, and when his fleet started playing cast and mouse with SG-1 and their own Ha'tak in the Vorash system.
However, they don't seem to achieve those speeds with some warp trick.
As for firing arcs, Ha'taks are simply one of the best designs out there. There's not a single angle they can't aim at.

The Ha'taks are indeed a formidable opponent and Starfleet is probably going to need at least half a dozen per Ha'tak to be able to win an engagement. Fortunately, since the Goa'uld have never really faced an enemy capable of truly competing with them for territory and resources, their armies are dedicated towards occupational forces and their fleet is dedicated towards more of a carrier role. Even the loss of a few ships can have a large political backlash for a System Lord.

The Asgards have already stored their minds in computers and used time dilation technology. They could certainly buy some time, but I'm not sure how it will make any difference there, especially since they most likely already pushed their own tech to its limits (they'd be rather stupid not to do so, and we know that they do love to push their tech hard, a bit too hard in fact).
But they seem to have refused the idea of storing themselves into computers forever, preferring to blow up Orilla (which they had settled something like three years prior), along themselves.

The mass suicide thing seemed more of a way to keep their enemies from trying to pick at their technology than it did actually them just throwing up their hands and saying "fuck it".

Perhaps something due to some anti-bot bias after what the Replicators did to their civilization.

Possible, they might have feared becoming them in little more than name.

[/QUOTE]Their problem was so complex that they couldn't reverse anything, even when working with the in-stasis body of an 30K years older Asgard who didn't display the same deformities as the current ones did.
Then, due to plot fiat, they found a cure which was actually not one but they all got their flu shot and found that they were screwed. Writers erased them from SG-1 ("Unending").[/quote]

Actually, in 2151, in Enterprise's Dear Doctor, Pholx was able to come up with a cure that cured a genetic deformity that was killing an entire species. While of course this is a much greater problem, I would say that the UFP probably has some experience in this matter, not to mention all the other "genetic" altering diseases, phenomenon, and such that we see in Trek.

But as I said, if they can simply time travel backwards and look over their original DNA, the UFP could probably give them the clones they need right quick.