Worf vs an unarmed jedi knight?

Kahless · Post by **Kahless** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:44 am

Who would win in a bar fight? Worf and the Jedi are in the bar when something happens to antagonize them to each other. The Jedi is your bog standard fair (no Anakin, Vader, Obi-Wan, etc) and is motivated to fight Worf. In typical barfight tradition, they start unarmed but can use stuff in their environment as they find it.

The fight is to the death. Who wins in the end?

Narsil · Post by **Narsil** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:58 am

At the end of the day, Worf's typical advantages of strength, speed and skill are generally negated because he's now facing an opponent who can bend metal arms like cheap spoons (RotS novelisation), run upwards of fifty miles per hour (TPM), spends their entire lifetime training in armed and unarmed combat (numerous sources), possesses telekinesis (all films), possesses mind affecting powers (all films), can see the future and react to threats before they occur (all films), and aren't necessarily restricted to the weaknesses of humanity.

I mean; you do get Wookiee Jedi, Ithorian Jedi, Whatever-the-hell-Yoda-is Jedi, all sorts of Jedi... hell you could probably find a Type 102 TARDIS Jedi appearing in some quiet part of the Expanded Universe.

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:18 pm

Narsil wrote:facing an opponent who can bend metal arms like cheap spoons (RotS novelisation), run upwards of fifty miles per hour (TPM), spends their entire lifetime training in armed and unarmed combat (numerous sources), possesses telekinesis (all films), possesses mind affecting powers (all films), can see the future and react to threats before they occur (all films), and aren't necessarily restricted to the weaknesses of humanity.

And then we see Jango Fett, reputed to be one of the best bounty hunters in the SW galaxy, give a run for his money to one of the best Jedi Knights in the order.
Yes, Jango had his equipment, but Obi-Wan had his Lightsabre.

And all the powers you named are nice to have, but they haven't been shown to be possessed by all the Jedis, and they need time to concentrate to use the most powerful of those, or else Obi-Wan would have simply TKed Jango in the air, in front of the ship, before Boba could have fired... Which didn't happen, so I guess then, if we aren't even talking about Obi-Wan, then a run-of-the-mill Jedi could get beaten by Worf.

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:46 pm

Yeah, those summary packages are not reliable. Mostly because the saga focuses on the best Sith and Jedi.

Mace, Qui-Gon, Yoda, Luke, Obi-Wan, Sidious, Tyranus.

The others are pale in comparison, yet represent the bigger numbers.

That said, there's that dark side shroud explanation/excuse/theory going on, but globally, the powers are used in certain conditions only, and not all at the same time, or even two combined. It's rather rare.

Opecoiler · Post by **Opecoiler** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:34 pm

Praeothmin wrote: And then we see Jango Fett, reputed to be one of the best bounty hunters in the SW galaxy, give a run for his money to one of the best Jedi Knights in the order.
Yes, Jango had his equipment, but Obi-Wan had his Lightsabre.

A run for his money? Are we watching the same movie?

I saw that Jango was reduced to throwing out trick after trick at Obi-wan in an attempt to win. It wasn't an even match. Without tricks or gadgets, Jango fared rather poorly against a Jedi.

And all the powers you named are nice to have, but they haven't been shown to be possessed by all the Jedis, and they need time to concentrate to use the most powerful of those, or else Obi-Wan would have simply TKed Jango in the air, in front of the ship, before Boba could have fired... Which didn't happen, so I guess then, if we aren't even talking about Obi-Wan, then a run-of-the-mill Jedi could get beaten by Worf.

Lifting and holding someone up steady in front of a ship requires far more concentration and strength then simply shoving/flinging them away, or flinging other stuff at them.

And since this is in a bar, there will be plenty of stuff for the Jedi to fling at Worf.

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:49 pm

Opecoiler wrote:A run for his money? Are we watching the same movie?

I saw that Jango was reduced to throwing out trick after trick at Obi-wan in an attempt to win. It wasn't an even match. Without tricks or gadgets, Jango fared rather poorly against a powerful Jedi Master.

Corrected your last sentence... :)

And those tricks, as you say, allowed Jango to last quite some time against Obi-Wan, and he even evaded the Jedi Master...
So I guess you're right, we apparently didn't watch the same movie... ;)

Lifting and holding someone up steady in front of a ship requires far more concentration and strength then simply shoving/flinging them away, or flinging other stuff at them.

Notice, in the movie you watched, how Obi-Wan did none of the above to Jango?
Guess what?
A run-of-the-mill Jedi has even less chance to do it against Worf... :)

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:14 pm

Praeothmin wrote:Corrected your last sentence... :)

And those tricks, as you say, allowed Jango to last quite some time against Obi-Wan, and he even evaded the Jedi Master...
So I guess you're right, we apparently didn't watch the same movie... ;)

Talking about watching the same movie, you probably noticed the armour, the jetpack, blasters and missile. You also noticed the twin guns used by Boba.

Seriously, the use of Force powers is just too stupidly plot dependant.

If anything, the prequels have made Jedi based versuses completely boring.

Depending on if he need to win or not, Obi-Wan can push and deactivate three battle droids at the same time, but attempt nothing against shielded droidekas or monsters.
He can rip off a big piece of scrap metal from a roof, but not even attempt a Force push on Grievous.

The lightsabre is a Jedi's best excuse to wound someone without using the Force.
Against Jango, the punches we delivered, even if applied against armour, didn't send the bounty hunter flying meters backwards or whatever.

Put a Sith and it's another story.

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:28 pm

Mr. Oragahn, are you suggesting that SW employs... gasp... Forcenobabble????

:)

Opecoiler · Post by **Opecoiler** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:06 pm

Praeothmin wrote: Corrected your last sentence... :)

And those tricks, as you say, allowed Jango to last quite some time against Obi-Wan,

Tricks that Worf does not have. Really, all that Obi-Wan had that the Jedi here doesn't is the lightsaber-which is little more than a sword that just happens to cut through almost everything.

Worf doesn't have the jetpack, backpack missiles, binding wire, or even a blaster. He has no way to escape.

and he even evaded the Jedi Master...

No he didn't, liar

Notice, in the movie you watched, how Obi-Wan did none of the above to Jango?
Guess what?
A run-of-the-mill Jedi has even less chance to do it against Worf... :)

And yet Jedi have done the force push and telekinetic throwing many times before in the movies. Obi-Wan's refusal to do it against Jango could be attributed to the fact that his jetpack makes force pushing much less effective than it could be, and that on the Kamino landing platform, there was a lack of items to throw that weren't bolted down.

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:53 pm

Opecoiler wrote:
and he even evaded the Jedi Master...
No he didn't, liar

He was talking about Obi-Wan. Pointing to a clip involving Jango and Mace at Geonosis is incorrect.

Socar · Post by **Socar** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:10 am

I can't really blame Opecoiler. I was confused too, since Obi-Wan wasn't a Jedi Master at the time, I do believe.

Post by **Trinoya** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:45 am

Worf goes down, but not before giving the jedi a run for his/her/it's money. The jedi will only win because, ultimately, they can just keep worf at bay with a simple force push.

Roondar · Post by **Roondar** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:10 am

I think that this one will be won by the Jedi knight eventually.

Worf might be stronger than the average human, he has no 'special powers'. I imagine force push could be useful, or perhaps even the Jedi mind trick.

Well that and throwing half the content of the bar at him is likely to severely weaken, injure or even kill Worf. Glass hurts.

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:01 pm

Socar wrote:I can't really blame Opecoiler. I was confused too, since Obi-Wan wasn't a Jedi Master at the time, I do believe.

I'm sure he was even in AOTC, even if he may have been appointed too quickly, but that's speculation.
Anakin already was his pupil.

And globally, even if the Force powers are plot concerned, a cornered Jedi will use his powers anyway. Seriously, it's delusional to believe that a glorified dude with wigs can compete, bare hands, with a Jedi.

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:18 pm

I guess I just like Worf too much.

I still don't think Jedis are that good, based on what we see in the movies.

Opecoiler wrote:No he didn't, liar

As it has been noted, since we were talking about the fight between Obi-Wan and Jango, I'm not lying.
Think, before you insult someone... :)

Mr. Oragahn wrote:it's delusional to believe that a glorified dude with wigs can compete, bare hands, with a Jedi.

First, since we are talking about "in-universe" characters, Worf hair is real... :)
And it's nice to boot... For a Klingon... :)
And Hand-to-Hand, Worf would cream any Jedi (without force power use).

Let's just say, if we assume that all Jedi have the same neat force powers, and if they use it competentaly (unlike what we see in the movies), then yes, I agree that the Force gives the Jedi an unsurmountable advantage.