Starfleet Jedi

More for fun than for seriousness.

Now, we always hear about the ever-constant power of the Jedi/Sith and the ever-constant power of various Wizards in fiction. Let's take some of the most exceptional examples and pit them against each-other in a fight of power, skill and sheer wit in some instances. The rules are; no hits below the belt, no turning your opponent's weapon into a duck (though any other form is acceptable), no turning your opponent into a duck (though any other form is, again, acceptable), no being cleverer than what is shown in the fiction you're from, and do not under any circumstances open the Outer Gates. This last rule is simply common sense.

Well, maybe a wizard or two can open the Outer Gates, but let's face it, the second they're open it ceases to be a fight for anything except for either side to retain its sanity afterwards; it's simply not done. Of course, I don't need to tell you that you shouldn't summon Daleks either, for much the same sorts of reasons.

Wizards and Jedi are armed with what they need to typically be armed with in order to carry off a proper fight. This varies from wizard to wizard, as we are using several worlds; remember that a wizard sometimes needs the powers in order to do anything proper.

I have judged that the most powerful/skilled Jedi should be Mace Windu, based on his easy victory over Palpatine, and I have judged that Palpatine is the most powerful/skilled Sith due to his overall powers as shown in the films and some of the EU. Of course, the EU is not considered to be a form of admissible evidence for this thread because it's much like throwing the chessboard out of the window and then setting it on fire.

Now, the Wizardly contenders are;

Ged from Earthsea
Raistlin Majere from Dragonlance
Prospero from the Tempest
Merlin from the Matter of Britain
Egwene al'Vere from the Wheel of Time
Rand al'Thor from the Wheel of Time
Belgarath from the Belgariad
Polgara from the Belgariad
Belgarion from the Belgariad
Mazirian the Magician from the Dying Earth
Mustrum Ridcully from the Discworld
Alberto Malich from the Discworld
Granny Weatherwax from the Discworld
Gandalf the White from the Lord of the Rings
Albus Dumbledore from the Harry Potter series
Harry Dresden from the Dresden Files
Ebenezer McCoy from the Dresden Files
Pug/Milamber from the Riftwar Saga
Richard Rahl from the Sword of Truth series
Elminster Aumar from the Forgotten Realms

Treat them individually; same with the Sith and Jedi. It's a very long series of one-versus-one fights, each separately counted.

Can't the wizards in LOTR resurrect into a new human form or something?

We'll still count it as a loss.

IMO, Jedi/Sith are generally overrated. They can choke, they can throw lightning, they can move and duck and dodge and heave objects the size of cars, but it's not very godlike power.

A lot of the figures listed depend on the choice of era, though. For example, Raistlin Majere, sickly brother of Caramon, relying mostly of sleight of hand to keep from getting beat up by villagers, is a whole different story from Raistlin Majere, dark deity of sufficient strength to upset the balance between the gods.

Milamber (Pug) is another example of a wizard who starts small and gets big. There is no question that late Milamber could have Palpatine and Mace Windu served on toast; early Pug, however, is a different wizard.

IMO, Dumbledore, being probably unwilling to use instantly lethal measures, may have trouble; Gandalf - as ambiguous as his powers actually are - I should think, would not, nor would crafty old Belgarath, who has had several thousand years more practice with throwing around things like lightning and large blunt objects with his Will.

Much depends upon whether or not Force powers are forced to obey the same laws of magic and the counteraction thereof. Does the Sword of Truth cut through lightsabers? Can Mace Windu see octarine light? Will a circle of protection cut off force powers?

Also Elminster, being a chosen of Mystra (as it was a few years ago, don't know the state of Magic Gods in Fearun anymore) is more powerful then any force users ever seen, even if you include the Clone Wars comics.

He is probably as powerful, if not more, then Raistlin Majere at his peak...

And I also agree that Force users in General are incredibly over-rated...
Although they are cool with that Lightsabre thingy... :)

Praeothmin wrote:Also Elminster, being a chosen of Mystra (as it was a few years ago, don't know the state of Magic Gods in Fearun anymore) is more powerful then any force users ever seen, even if you include the Clone Wars comics.

He is probably as powerful, if not more, then Raistlin Majere at his peak...

And I also agree that Force users in General are incredibly over-rated...
Although they are cool with that Lightsabre thingy... :)

Well, there's a bit of a difference when we look at Elminister's peak (as being near-godlike and the most powerful disciple of the [one] god of magic) and Raistlin's peak (being the strongest of the three main gods). Granted, they're in different "universes" (or planes, or crystal spheres), but I think once Raistlin was a god (in the timeline that was later "corrected," but certainly "happened") he definitely thoroughly overmeasured Elminister's best, and I don't think Elminister would've ever been able to outright kill, say, Bane himself, and Bane is not really as powerful as Takhisis IMO. A proxy avatar of Bane is about his match.

Now, sure, it's a game, and there are versions of Raistlin and Elminister's stats which give Elminister a huge advantage, but as has been pointed out here, I think that's mostly a result of differing interpretations of how strong players should be able to get within the universe.

Well, not to derail the topic, but after reading most of the Dragonlance books and a lot of Forgotten Realms books, I,ve always been more impressed by the level of power thronw around in Forgotten Realms, and I've always felt that the gods of Dragonlance were a tad, shall we say, underpowered?

But it still doesn't change the fact that both Elminster and Raistlin were capable of throwing around 200 Gigaton Fireballs...eerr, I mean, capable of decimating any Force user, and even Wankatine if they had so wanted... :)

And what happens if we replace the Jedi with, say, Priors?

I have no prior knowledge of Priors (bad pun intended)... :)