LMAO@SpaceBattles!

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

We know they can fire at surface of planets if needed, which implies ranges of hundreds of kilometers against large and immobile targets, and DS9 was hardly small and mobile, so the visuals are already debunked there.

voyager hits a small kazon ship firing at that meeting from orbit with torps, the E-D does the same thing in skin of evil to a shuttle from a high orbit.

Oh and a update on the latest SB.com thread.

No moderation has been in the thread yet so it is HIGHLY likely that Thanatos is pulling his personal type of bait and wait trick.

This as you know means that instead of giving the thread a light moderating to calm things down early in the argument (the very definition of his job and title) is instead ALLOWING things to pile up so he can charge in much later with the usual "i was busy over the bank holiday/at work/blowing other warsies" bullshit excuse and dish out bans for the compounded infractions.

Obviously i am refering to myself in regards to the bans as Leo1 and the others who are spewing out abuse will not have it compounded and will recieve at most a light handwave of a mention along with perhaps even a supporting comment or two for good measure.

It makes you wonder of the admins are too stupid to realise that this is a regular tactic him and lower level mods on SB use, do not care or are actually complicit.

[Mr. Oragahn]

We know they can fire at surface of planets if needed, which implies ranges of hundreds of kilometers against large and immobile targets, and DS9 was hardly small and mobile, so the visuals are already debunked there.

voyager hits a small kazon ship firing at that meeting from orbit with torps, the E-D does the same thing in skin of evil to a shuttle from a high orbit.

Oh and a update on the latest SB.com thread.

No moderation has been in the thread yet so it is HIGHLY likely that Thanatos is pulling his personal type of bait and wait trick.

This as you know means that instead of giving the thread a light moderating to calm things down early in the argument (the very definition of his job and title) is instead ALLOWING things to pile up so he can charge in much later with the usual "i was busy over the bank holiday/at work/blowing other warsies" bullshit excuse and dish out bans for the compounded infractions.

Obviously i am refering to myself in regards to the bans as Leo1 and the others who are spewing out abuse will not have it compounded and will recieve at most a light handwave of a mention along with perhaps even a supporting comment or two for good measure.

It makes you wonder of the admins are too stupid to realise that this is a regular tactic him and lower level mods on SB use, do not care or are actually complicit.

Stay cool. Both here and at SBC. What can they do if you don't insult people? Nothing. Try to avoid the long spaghetti replies, but be careful of accusations of sniping, so eventually go for posts that look like concise and documented KISS-style posts.
After all, if you behave, the only thing they could ban you for is bad arguments and some random argumentation fallacies ; they have a long habit of making up such claims, CPLF, Thanatos -and even Skyzeta, to my astonishment- did that, and SS4 seems to be progressively and rather quickly falling for the same games.

If you're actually honest and good in your arguments, and even making some concessions when you're clearly wrong, it would be easy to highlight their bias, as I did. It may not spare you from retarded bans, but I believe that truth is better than doing silly things just to keep the "privilege" of posting at SBC.

Surely, you want to avoid going against some universes which have a high support. Star Wars is being seriously toned down (I and others took most of the flak), but Warhammer 40,000 is still a no go at the moment.
Halo, they don't care. I find it funny that Halo doesn't much help from the mods while at the same time, SDN had a rule against Master Chief wankers. Considering the joint ventures between SDN and SBC, this might explain why even with the über wank of Halo, it never got the free pass SW and WH40K got. Most likely because the universe's fluff was also growing at a time when people were really paying close attention to what was going on. That said, with the recent Forerunner/Precursor/Flood stuff, all it would take would be a Haloite mod to make things become nasty.
As usual, avoid Culture/Xelee stuff, as they were essentially written for the sake of hard light boners.
Really, I can't think of any universes other than SW and 40K that got so much support from SBC's moderation staff, and once again the parallels with the consensus at SDN are quite a clue. The idea is to keep an eye on wankonsensus you can find at SDN, and you'll know where the land mines are at SBC.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Stay cool. Both here and at SBC. What can they do if you don't insult people? Nothing. Try to avoid the long spaghetti replies, but be careful of accusations of sniping, so eventually go for posts that look like concise and documented KISS-style posts.
After all, if you behave, the only thing they could ban you for is bad arguments and some random argumentation fallacies ; they have a long habit of making up such claims, CPLF, Thanatos -and even Skyzeta, to my astonishment- did that, and SS4 seems to be progressively and rather quickly falling for the same games.

SS4 considering his past bias has i have to say been less of a tosser in his last few posts and warnings to me have been much milder that those he has done in the past. Now this maybe his olive branch or because thanny is involved and has no shame at all in regards to being biased and showing it.

Admitedly he is still as easy going towards the usual suspects as ever but he seems to have a different attitude to the one that would have punished the anal rape victim for getting shit on the knob of the rapist if said anal rapist was white_rabbit or rama ect ect.

If you're actually honest and good in your arguments, and even making some concessions when you're clearly wrong, it would be easy to highlight their bias, as I did. It may not spare you from retarded bans, but I believe that truth is better than doing silly things just to keep the "privilege" of posting at SBC.

Yea i suppose i could react better to being insulted and past issues are at the forefront of my mind and as such attitude to certain individuals on that board.

Even the mods on there must see that in threads without the usual suspects this does not happen.

Surely, you want to avoid going against some universes which have a high support. Star Wars is being seriously toned down (I and others took most of the flak), but Warhammer 40,000 is still a no go at the moment.

This thread as neither but it has trek so/insert SDN trek hate from guess who...

Halo, they don't care. I find it funny that Halo doesn't much help from the mods while at the same time, SDN had a rule against Master Chief wankers. Considering the joint ventures between SDN and SBC, this might explain why even with the über wank of Halo, it never got the free pass SW and WH40K got. Most likely because the universe's fluff was also growing at a time when people were really paying close attention to what was going on. That said, with the recent Forerunner/Precursor/Flood stuff, all it would take would be a Haloite mod to make things become nasty.
As usual, avoid Culture/Xelee stuff, as they were essentially written for the sake of hard light boners.
Really, I can't think of any universes other than SW and 40K that got so much support from SBC's moderation staff, and once again the parallels with the consensus at SDN are quite a clue. The idea is to keep an eye on wankonsensus you can find at SDN, and you'll know where the land mines are at SBC.

True but then we both know it will not matter in the long run and its nice to chip away at it when possible.

[Mike DiCenso]

That is canon Voyager casually destroyed a Kazon torpedo shot from a few million kilometers away. Given the Kazon have crappy tech for the setting I doubt they have longer anything ranges then the UFP.

Uh, what episode did this happen? Can you supply dialog and screen shots, please?
-Mike

[Lucky]

That is canon Voyager casually destroyed a Kazon torpedo shot from a few million kilometers away. Given the Kazon have crappy tech for the setting I doubt they have longer anything ranges then the UFP.

Uh, what episode did this happen? Can you supply dialog and screen shots, please?
-Mike

"Basics, Pt. I"[VOY2]
My mistake, janeway says to hold your fire.

The Kazon are detonating torpedos in Voyager's path while Voyager is coming straight at them at warp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtW_zz6XXG4

[Mike DiCenso]

There is no evidence of a millions kilometer range in "Basics, Part I". When range is called out, we hear "ten thousands kilometers". Just based on the timing, the range between ships was maybe in the hundred thousand km range tops when the Kazon first started firing on Voyager. Even while at warp, the ships were not intercepting one another except at a relative closure velocity.
-Mike

[Lucky]

There is no evidence of a millions kilometer range in "Basics, Part I". When range is called out, we hear "ten thousands kilometers". Just based on the timing, the range between ships was maybe in the hundred thousand km range tops when the Kazon first started firing on Voyager. Even while at warp, the ships were not intercepting one another except at a relative closure velocity.
-Mike

Mike it is simple math.
_____

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtW_zz6XXG4

1:58
First Kazon Torpedo's blast hits Voyager while Voyager is at warp.

2:14
Voyager begins to slow to impulse.

2:18
The Kazon vessels are now 10,000 km away from Voyager.
_____
15 to 16 seconds after being hit with the first Kazon torpedo Voygaer slows to STL.

Light travels at 300,000 km/s

If we assume Voyager was only moving as fast as light.

Ignore the fact Voyager had dropped out of warp 10,000 km from the Kazon.

Assume the Kazon ships were stationary rather then moving towards Voyager.

This gives us an extreme low end of the first Kazon torpedo having traveled 4,500,000 km.

15 X 300,000 = 4,500,000

[Mr. Oragahn]

There is no evidence of a millions kilometer range in "Basics, Part I". When range is called out, we hear "ten thousands kilometers". Just based on the timing, the range between ships was maybe in the hundred thousand km range tops when the Kazon first started firing on Voyager. Even while at warp, the ships were not intercepting one another except at a relative closure velocity.
-Mike

Mike it is simple math.
_____

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtW_zz6XXG4

1:58
First Kazon Torpedo's blast hits Voyager while Voyager is at warp.

2:14
Voyager begins to slow to impulse.

2:18
The Kazon vessels are now 10,000 km away from Voyager.
_____
15 to 16 seconds after being hit with the first Kazon torpedo Voygaer slows to STL.

Light travels at 300,000 km/s

If we assume Voyager was only moving as fast as light.

Ignore the fact Voyager had dropped out of warp 10,000 km from the Kazon.

Assume the Kazon ships were stationary rather then moving towards Voyager.

This gives us an extreme low end of the first Kazon torpedo having traveled 4,500,000 km.

15 X 300,000 = 4,500,000

I'm really not following you here. The Voyager was flying through torps placed on its path or something similar akin to mimic a mine behaviour. So the ranges at that moment were only exceptional due to the use of warp. Probably warp sustainers then.
But then nothing happens when Voyager goes back at STL.
And the visuals once again show something silly.

[Lucky]

I'm really not following you here.

No you just don't want to so you come up with silly impossibilities.

The Voyager was flying through torps placed on its path or something similar akin to mimic a mine behaviour.

I'm not seeing any evidence, and I see a few problems with your theory.

Space is big, there is no way the Kazon could carry enough torpedo to do what you suggest.

Voyager would have to be almost running each torpedo over on purpose. There is no way the Kazon could have known where Voyager would be with that level of precision.

There is nothing to show such a tactic was used. It looks to me like the Kazon just can't accurately target at those ranges, or Voyager was able to dodge

So the ranges at that moment were only exceptional due to the use of warp.

The ranges have to be extreme because Voyager and possibly the Kazon were moving at FTL speeds towards each other.

Probably warp sustainers then.

Star Fleet can make photon torpedo sized warp 9 capable craft by stripping out the innards of type-8 probe, and replacing them with life.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Class-8_probe

It makes perfect sense for torpedos to be warp capable on their own. There's no reason to make stuff up.

But then nothing happens when Voyager goes back at STL.

The Kazon stopped shooting. They wanted to capture Voyager remember.

And the visuals once again show something silly.

You'll need to be more specific. Voyager came out of warp 10,00 km, and then moved to 2,000, and possibly closer.

[Mr. Oragahn]

...

[Mr. Oragahn]

I'm really not following you here.

No you just don't want to so you come up with silly impossibilities.

Fuck off. The rest of your post is retarded.
Wow, that was fast.

[Lucky]

I'm really not following you here.

No you just don't want to so you come up with silly impossibilities.

Fuck off. The rest of your post is retarded.
Wow, that was fast.

If this is the best defense you can come up with for your vague theories why bother posting them in the first place?

[Praeothmin]

I'm really not following you here.

No you just don't want to so you come up with silly impossibilities.

Fuck off. The rest of your post is retarded.
Wow, that was fast.

Lucky's post didn't warrant this type of response, Mr. O.
You know the rules, so you'll get a warning.

[Mr. Oragahn]

No you just don't want to so you come up with silly impossibilities.

Fuck off. The rest of your post is retarded.
Wow, that was fast.

Lucky's post didn't warrant this type of response, Mr. O.
You know the rules, so you'll get a warning.

And my reply certainly didn't warrant being accused of dishonesty in some roundabout fashion, just because one [beep] can't stand that I don't understand his point or merely disagree with him.
I don't get many warnings a month, so I'm within my safety zone anyway... ;)

[Mr. Oragahn]

;)

Contratry to popular ranting, there is actually an aweful lot of material that directly and indirectly supports the types of numbers seen in the ICS material long before and after the ICS books came out..

*sigh* ...Except there really isn't. We asked for it, many, many times. We got...maybe three actually solid examples. And that assumes we ignore Lucasfilm's official canon ladder. *And* we have to apply the "Mark IV Neutronium Hammer" logic to many of the visuals.

Go look at the most recent big (and now locked) thread on the tech board...go ahead and count the explicit examples posted for each side. I dare you.

Yes I've seen the more recent threads regarding SW firepower, they generally come down to a bunch of people flinging insults around and screaming loudly until people just give up and walk out.
Its sort of the reason most of the oldschool people who were around before and after ICS came out have since left SB, because trying to have a logical debate is more or less impossible, I've lost count of the number of SW threads on this board, on SDN, on ASVS and other web communities where I've gone over all the evidence, and frankly there is plenty of evidence to work with to support a consistent power level in the Gigaton/Teraton range.