Club ASVS is up

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Mike DiCenso
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Re: Club ASVS is up

Post by Mike DiCenso » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:59 pm

I see Enigma is pulling a Kane Starkiller and running back to SDN for help. I'am surpised you even need to bother with using RSA's material for BDZ, which is what Enigma is citing he needs help with. Just keep bringing up the CGI TCW and it's obvious lack of ICS-like firepower, and shields dissipation.
Tyralak wrote:Invasion by SDN or by one of the Chans?
I suppose the Chans might be a threat, if they misunderstand what the ASVS forum is all about. But I think the more immediate concern is SDN, though they may just be content to sit back and spout venom from behind the safety of their little box fort like they've been doing for SFJN for years now. When they know they don't have a decisive advantage in numbers or in having a pro-Wars, pro-ICS mod who will ban the opposition or shut down threads at the drop of a hat, they won't show up. It's too much work for them to have to justify their religion. That's what happened at the Strek-vs-Swars forum years ago. Without either ICS or a mod to cheat with, they're kind of helpless.
-Mike

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Praeothmin
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Re: Club ASVS is up

Post by Praeothmin » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:22 pm

Well, there is the wonderful StarDestroyerAvenger who comes in once in a while to post inciteful and intelligent rebuttals to posts he doesn't agree with...
Oh wait... :)

Mike DiCenso
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Re: Club ASVS is up

Post by Mike DiCenso » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:00 pm

SDA has to be a sock puppet, or an A.I. experiment one of you guys cooked up. It's behavior is just a little too much on the stereotypical side to be a real person.
-MIke

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Re: Club ASVS is up

Post by Jedi Master Spock » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:54 am

Well, there are different types of invasions. I've always been more concerned with spambots and vandalism than some variety of social board invasion. Flooding, porn, adbots - those are things I would want to be concerned about, and I'm not under the impression that SDN tends to supply such things. A few petty vandals now and then, yes, but you expect that when a board has a groupthink issue and a lot of younger kids.
Tyralak wrote:*sigh* Well, we're on their radar now. I was kind of hoping this wouldn't happen for a while. I wondered why certain threads had an unusual amount of "guest" views. For those of you with SDN access, here ya go.
I'm surprised it took that long. I see the claim made that rules against flaming prevent debate from taking place - and then also the claim made that the unregulated nature of ASVS was a bad thing.

Which again boils down to being on a forum where the moderator(s) enforce adherence to a point of view, and to the truth of claims that are debatable. In other words, that the comfort zone of those complaining is the one in which debate is sharply limited. I'm going to agree with Mike and then go a step further to say you have absolutely nothing to worry about with regard to SDN "invading." If some SDN members actually get up the nerve to come and engage in true unmoderated debate on ASVS, all the better, but I doubt you'll have too many to handle.

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Re: Club ASVS is up

Post by ILikeDeathNote » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:58 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:SDA has to be a sock puppet, or an A.I. experiment one of you guys cooked up. It's behavior is just a little too much on the stereotypical side to be a real person.
-MIke
I've looked through that SDN thread and it looks like a good third of them could be sockpuppet accounts by that logic.

And I find Kythnos' comment about the writers of Star Trek not caring interesting. I've heard this thrown around all the time and even I myself use it all the time because it's true. But as far as I know I'm the only one who says the same thing of Star Wars writers.


Really, the only ones who are insane enough to even give a damn are the ones in this debate. Which I guess includes us. And me.



:P

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Re: Club ASVS is up

Post by The Dude » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:09 am

ILikeDeathNote wrote:
Mike DiCenso wrote:SDA has to be a sock puppet, or an A.I. experiment one of you guys cooked up. It's behavior is just a little too much on the stereotypical side to be a real person.
-MIke
I've looked through that SDN thread and it looks like a good third of them could be sockpuppet accounts by that logic.

And I find Kythnos' comment about the writers of Star Trek not caring interesting. I've heard this thrown around all the time and even I myself use it all the time because it's true. But as far as I know I'm the only one who says the same thing of Star Wars writers.


Really, the only ones who are insane enough to even give a damn are the ones in this debate. Which I guess includes us. And me.



:P
SW EU writers, or movie/tv writers? Personally I think the SW EU writers went down that path a long time ago.

Movie/TV *shrug* I haven't seen anything recent other then the Clone Wars movie (sort of listened to it with half an ear while my boy watched it).

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Re: Club ASVS is up

Post by Mike DiCenso » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:56 am

The Dude wrote: SW EU writers, or movie/tv writers? Personally I think the SW EU writers went down that path a long time ago.
They did indeed. Kevin J. Anderson and Karen Traviss to name a few authors just churn out mass amounts of crap.
The Dude wrote:Movie/TV *shrug* I haven't seen anything recent other then the Clone Wars movie (sort of listened to it with half an ear while my boy watched it).
You weren't missing much. It wasn't all that good based on what I could stomach watching on DVD. I sure as hell wasn't going to pay movie theater prices for a bunch of Saturday morning cartoons hastily cobbed together into a movie.
-Mike

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Mr. Oragahn
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Re: Club ASVS is up

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:44 pm

Jedi Master Spock wrote:
Mike DiCenso wrote:At least Kane Starkiller tries with the rebuttals, but he's still way too dependent on the SDN groupthink for support to make his case.
-Mike
I wouldn't say so. He makes some good points, and some original points as well. I appreciate his visits to SFJ.

There's a very big difference between debating with Kane and debating with Darth Servo or Vympel (who can be relied upon to give the precise SDN "party line" if it exists, nineteen times out of twenty, and are thus far more predictable in their responses) or Point45 (who seems not to fully understand the arguments he has mostly cribbed from SDN, and therefore tends to give a somewhat incoherent account of common SDN positions).
Point45, who I have only crossed swords with at SBC thus far, primarily picks data from the ICS, some references straight from Wong's oldest pages, and then ignores everything else.
This core is coated with an alloy of bizarre phrasing, denial, walling and rich percentage of lies. His favorite technique being how any attempt at proving ICS claims wrong have miserably failed, and repeating this like a broken record as many times as necessary, while conveniently avoiding to go pick a look at the rebuttals in question, in case he would have something sensible to add to the critics. He's all full of hot air, but manages to drag you into post marathons.

The most noticeable aspect of Point45's tireless methods is that despite considerable reports, no mods would intervene, even to warn him.
I know of a very long thread, detailed and all that, wherein he's been making abysmally stupid claims, and above all ignoring elements provided by his opponents. After a long while, I remember people really getting fed up, and PMing mods. Nothing happened.
As you can see with recent threads where SW is involved, mods are rather quick to intervene against people who do not stick close enough to the pro-wars party line, and that's often explained by "I received some PMs".

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Mith
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Re: Club ASVS is up

Post by Mith » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:34 pm

The thing is, Id on't see this going anywhere and I think Darkstar hit that reason on the head; your site is basically a Trek version of SDN (even if it may be more free and nicer) and no one is going to really be compelled to join a small niche of a website. SJ works because there are those who wish to take away from SDN and SB to relax at a place that is a little more strict, but fair in its methods.

But as it is, I can't see ASVS lasting that long. Websites survive because people keep going back and in considerable number. Your marketing method is going to smash harder than Asmodeus did when he hit Baator.

You need to branch out the concept and make it more adaptable. Include more sci-fi like Stargate, BSG, and others into the theme too. Make it more about sci-fi discussions than about two specific franchises.

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Mith
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Re: Club ASVS is up

Post by Mith » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:37 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Jedi Master Spock wrote:
Mike DiCenso wrote:At least Kane Starkiller tries with the rebuttals, but he's still way too dependent on the SDN groupthink for support to make his case.
-Mike
I wouldn't say so. He makes some good points, and some original points as well. I appreciate his visits to SFJ.

There's a very big difference between debating with Kane and debating with Darth Servo or Vympel (who can be relied upon to give the precise SDN "party line" if it exists, nineteen times out of twenty, and are thus far more predictable in their responses) or Point45 (who seems not to fully understand the arguments he has mostly cribbed from SDN, and therefore tends to give a somewhat incoherent account of common SDN positions).
Point45, who I have only crossed swords with at SBC thus far, primarily picks data from the ICS, some references straight from Wong's oldest pages, and then ignores everything else.
This core is coated with an alloy of bizarre phrasing, denial, walling and rich percentage of lies. His favorite technique being how any attempt at proving ICS claims wrong have miserably failed, and repeating this like a broken record as many times as necessary, while conveniently avoiding to go pick a look at the rebuttals in question, in case he would have something sensible to add to the critics. He's all full of hot air, but manages to drag you into post marathons.

The most noticeable aspect of Point45's tireless methods is that despite considerable reports, no mods would intervene, even to warn him.
I know of a very long thread, detailed and all that, wherein he's been making abysmally stupid claims, and above all ignoring elements provided by his opponents. After a long while, I remember people really getting fed up, and PMing mods. Nothing happened.
As you can see with recent threads where SW is involved, mods are rather quick to intervene against people who do not stick close enough to the pro-wars party line, and that's often explained by "I received some PMs".
Actually, Razor did ban him at one time and I think Thanatos gave him an earful for giving him like eight reports in five minutes (the poor bastard rigged it so his phone would ring should such an event happen).

And to be fair, Commander gave us a great deal of leeway with that ICS thread, until certain idiots (Point, Leo, and what's his face) wore him down until he closed it down.
Last edited by Mith on Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Mith
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Re: Club ASVS is up

Post by Mith » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:04 pm

Oh, and you can see Leo is back to his same bullshit:
I've argued Doomsday Machine more than once on SB.com and no Connie-Cultist (who are the only ones who peddle this nonsense, IMO) can win. The argument that photon torpedoes weren't used because of 'deactivation of antimatter' is utter bullshit - only the Constellation had its antimatter deactivated, the Enterprise never did.

The Enterprise didn't fire photon torpedoes or it's 'spherical-detonation phasers' (remastered Balance of Terror) because they're weaker than 97MT. Period.
So he admits that the Constellation was disabled due to THE SAME WEAPON hitting the ship, yet when someone makes that point about the Enterprise, he simpy turns around and basically says "well, they didn't hold my hand throughout theentire episode, so I can't assume what anyone with a brain would and come to a reasonable conclusion.'

Stupid twit.

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Re: Club ASVS is up

Post by 2046 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:13 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:SDA has to be a sock puppet, or an A.I. experiment one of you guys cooked up. It's behavior is just a little too much on the stereotypical side to be a real person.
-MIke
And here I thought I was underplaying it. I guess I did put a little too much Old School Wayne in there, though, what with gratuitous references to bodily functions. Oh well.

. . .


. . .


. . .

. . .


. . .


. . .

Just kidding. Had you going for a sec, though, didn't I? ;)

Mike DiCenso
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Re: Club ASVS is up

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:04 am

2046 wrote: Just kidding. Had you going for a sec, though, didn't I? ;)
No, not really. Not this time. No even for an android's eternity. ;-)
-Mike

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Re: Club ASVS is up

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:19 am

Mith wrote: You need to branch out the concept and make it more adaptable. Include more sci-fi like Stargate, BSG, and others into the theme too. Make it more about sci-fi discussions than about two specific franchises.
So, you want ASVS to become more like SB.com? ;-)
-Mike

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Mith
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Re: Club ASVS is up

Post by Mith » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:30 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:
Mith wrote: You need to branch out the concept and make it more adaptable. Include more sci-fi like Stargate, BSG, and others into the theme too. Make it more about sci-fi discussions than about two specific franchises.
So, you want ASVS to become more like SB.com? ;-)
-Mike
SB isn't that bad.

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