Starfleet Jedi

Posted: **Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:58 am**

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this, but you guys are obviously pretty knowledgeable. I was watching Star Trek: TNG and I got to an episode where Data meets his 'brother' android Lore, and I was just fascinated with the character. I was glued to the set! Data was always sort of cool, but the idea of a malevolent Data with a cruel sense of humor.. wow. So I go straight to wikipedia so I can find more episodes with him in them to watch, and find there are only three in total?! I mean, what the hell? There are like fifty episodes with Q! So the question is, are there any more appearances of this character, be it later ST series, books, anything? I hate the idea that the potential of this character is just squandered this way.

Posted: **Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:21 pm**

I'm pretty sure Lore reapeared in books somewhere, hell even Kirk came back from the dead.
Unfortunately, I don't know many ST books, so I can't help you...

Posted: **Sun Jul 15, 2007 12:34 pm**

Thanks for replying. But I need more! I NEED MORE LORE! Please, guys. There's got to be more than this.

Posted: **Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:38 pm**

According to Memory Alpha, Lore has had four appearances:

"Datalore" (Season One)
"Brothers" (Season Four)
"Descent, Part I" (Season Six)
"Descent, Part II" (Season Seven).

And according to Memory Beta, there is, in addition, a TNG short story, named "I Am Become Death".

Memory Beta about Lore wrote:Lore

Lore was a Soong-type android constructed by Dr. Noonien Soong circa 2335. While the most successful of Soong's androids to date, Lore exhibited antisocial tendencies which forced Soong to deactivate and disassemble him. Tragically, Lore was first able to contact a Crystalline Entity, which destroyed all organic life on Omicron Theta.

Lore was rediscovered in 2364 by the crew of USS Enterprise-D. Chief engineer Argyle and Dr. Beverly Crusher reassembled and reactivated the android, who then attempted to steal Data's identity and to summon Crystalline Entity to the Enterprise. He was stopped by Data, who beamed Lore out into space. (TNG episode: "Datalore")

Lore drifted in space for close to two years before he was found by a Pakled ship. (TNG: "Brothers")
Also aboard the Pakled ship was a version of Data from the far future of an alternate timeline. He hoped to enlist Lore to change his timeline, but found Lore's positronic matrix had been fused during his time in space, and could not be revived. Data then assumed Lore's identity in order to affect these changes himself. (TNG short story: "I Am Become Death")

In 2367, Lore answered a homing signal intended to draw Data to Soong's new laboratory on Terlina III. There, Lore posed as Data, took the emotion chip Soong had designed for his brother, and fatally injured the doctor. (TNG episode: "Brothers")

In 2369, Lore encountered a group of Borg disconnected from the Collective as a result of Hugh's sense of individuality. Lore established himself as their leader, and directed them to attack Federation targets. This brought the Enterprise and Data to investigate, and Lore attempted to manipulate his brother by broadcasting emotions from the stolen chip. Data, with the help of Geordi La Forge, was able to overcome this influence, and then to shoot and deactivate Lore. (TNG episodes: "Descent, Parts I and II")

Star Trek Expanded Universe has no entry about Lore.

I don't know, where else one could search. I'm sorry.

Posted: **Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:18 pm**

Who is like God arbour wrote:According to Memory Alpha, Lore has had four appearances:
"Datalore" (Season One)

"Brothers" (Season Four)

"Descent, Part I" (Season Six)

"Descent, Part II" (Season Seven).

And according to Memory Beta, there is, in addition, a TNG short story, named "I Am Become Death".

Memory Beta about Lore wrote:Lore

Lore was a Soong-type android constructed by Dr. Noonien Soong circa 2335. While the most successful of Soong's androids to date, Lore exhibited antisocial tendencies which forced Soong to deactivate and disassemble him. Tragically, Lore was first able to contact a Crystalline Entity, which destroyed all organic life on Omicron Theta.

Lore was rediscovered in 2364 by the crew of USS Enterprise-D. Chief engineer Argyle and Dr. Beverly Crusher reassembled and reactivated the android, who then attempted to steal Data's identity and to summon Crystalline Entity to the Enterprise. He was stopped by Data, who beamed Lore out into space. (TNG episode: "Datalore")

Lore drifted in space for close to two years before he was found by a Pakled ship. (TNG: "Brothers")
Also aboard the Pakled ship was a version of Data from the far future of an alternate timeline. He hoped to enlist Lore to change his timeline, but found Lore's positronic matrix had been fused during his time in space, and could not be revived. Data then assumed Lore's identity in order to affect these changes himself. (TNG short story: "I Am Become Death")

In 2367, Lore answered a homing signal intended to draw Data to Soong's new laboratory on Terlina III. There, Lore posed as Data, took the emotion chip Soong had designed for his brother, and fatally injured the doctor. (TNG episode: "Brothers")

In 2369, Lore encountered a group of Borg disconnected from the Collective as a result of Hugh's sense of individuality. Lore established himself as their leader, and directed them to attack Federation targets. This brought the Enterprise and Data to investigate, and Lore attempted to manipulate his brother by broadcasting emotions from the stolen chip. Data, with the help of Geordi La Forge, was able to overcome this influence, and then to shoot and deactivate Lore. (TNG episodes: "Descent, Parts I and II")
Star Trek Expanded Universe has no entry about Lore.

I don't know, where else one could search. I'm sorry.

What the?! Am I missing something here? If Lore couldn't be revived when he was found by the Pakled ship, how did he show up in the 'Brothers' and 'Descent' stories? Didn't those stories happen after he was found by the ship? Was this future version of Data the Lore in those stories, and if so, how would the things he did in those episodes help him to avert whatever crisis he was trying to avoid? If I'm reading this right, it's insane.

Posted: **Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:14 pm**

Don't get confused. The story being quoted in the Memory Beta non-canon site does not necessarily have an effect on what goes on in the canon TV series and movies. However, in the short story cited, because the real Lore's positronic matrix was fused, the alternate timeline Data had to assume Lore's identity and is presumably the one carrying out all the heinous actions henceforth attributed to Lore in "Brothers" and "Descent, Parts I & II" as part of his plan to affect changes to the timeline.
-Mike

Posted: **Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:19 am**

Mike DiCenso wrote:Don't get confused. The story being quoted in the Memory Beta non-canon site does not necessarily have an effect on what goes on in the canon TV series and movies. However, in the short story cited, because the real Lore's positronic matrix was fused, the alternate timeline Data had to assume Lore's identity and is presumably the one carrying out all the heinous actions henceforth attributed to Lore in "Brothers" and "Descent, Parts I & II" as part of his plan to affect changes to the timeline.
-Mike

Hmm.. I suppose if that emotion chip in the 'Brothers' episode had some ill effect on Data in the original timeline, then the future Data making sure it wasn't installed would make sense. But then why would he choose to have it installed in himself instead of simply destroying it in some way? And don't we have to assume that Dr. Soong either had something to do with the problems in the future Data's timeline or had severely pissed off the future Data somehow, since he pretty much killed him?
I haven't seen the 'Descent' episodes, but since he took over a bunch of borg guys and was trying to do something with them, and then was stopped by original Data and the Enterprise crew, did he fail in his mission to change the future? Or was being stopped by Data somehow in his plan?
I'm so confused.

Posted: **Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:09 pm**

Don't sweat worrying about it, if it confuses you that much, Mojo. The Star Trek Expanded Universe is not canon (valid), and thus you need not try and fit an unoffical short story into the events as they play out in the TV series and movies.
-Mike

Posted: **Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:11 pm**

Mike DiCenso wrote:Don't sweat worrying about it, if it confuses you that much, Mojo. The Star Trek Expanded Universe is not canon (valid), and thus you need not try and fit an unoffical short story into the events as they play out in the TV series and movies.
-Mike

That feels like such a cop-out to me, but sadly I think I have to go with it. It would be interesting to know, however, when the story was published. Was Lore found by the Pakled ship at the conclusion of the first episode he was in, or was it something that happened between the first episode he appeared in and the 'Brothers' episode, off-screen? Because if it happened in the time that passed between the first and second episodes he appeared in, and we never actually see it happen, and the story was published in that time period, we would have to assume that the story was canon, wouldn't we? The writers of the TV series would have pulled that idea right out of the story, making the rest of the story necessarily true as well. Does anybody know this, whether he was found by the Pakled ship on-screen in the first episode or found off-screen in the time between that and 'Brothers'? It would be simple to find out when the book containing the story was published, and that would clear it all up instantly.

Posted: **Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:25 pm**

mojo wrote:
Mike DiCenso wrote:Don't sweat worrying about it, if it confuses you that much, Mojo. The Star Trek Expanded Universe is not canon (valid), and thus you need not try and fit an unoffical short story into the events as they play out in the TV series and movies.
-Mike
That feels like such a cop-out to me, but sadly I think I have to go with it. It would be interesting to know, however, when the story was published. Was Lore found by the Pakled ship at the conclusion of the first episode he was in, or was it something that happened between the first episode he appeared in and the 'Brothers' episode, off-screen? Because if it happened in the time that passed between the first and second episodes he appeared in, and we never actually see it happen, and the story was published in that time period, we would have to assume that the story was canon, wouldn't we? The writers of the TV series would have pulled that idea right out of the story, making the rest of the story necessarily true as well. Does anybody know this, whether he was found by the Pakled ship on-screen in the first episode or found off-screen in the time between that and 'Brothers'? It would be simple to find out when the book containing the story was published, and that would clear it all up instantly.

Lore was lost in space IIRC at the end of the first episode. The packled ship found him inbetween the two episodes and we never see how it happens. As to whats cannon I'm willing to bet dollars to donoughts the episode "brothers" came first and then the short story afterwards or to put it another way the writers thought it up and the story writer took it and went in an interesting if unrealistic way.

Oh yeah welcome to the site!

Hope you are enjoying your stay here.

Posted: **Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:15 pm**

mojo wrote:
Mike DiCenso wrote:Don't sweat worrying about it, if it confuses you that much, Mojo. The Star Trek Expanded Universe is not canon (valid), and thus you need not try and fit an unoffical short story into the events as they play out in the TV series and movies.
-Mike
That feels like such a cop-out to me, but sadly I think I have to go with it. It would be interesting to know, however, when the story was published. Was Lore found by the Pakled ship at the conclusion of the first episode he was in, or was it something that happened between the first episode he appeared in and the 'Brothers' episode, off-screen? Because if it happened in the time that passed between the first and second episodes he appeared in, and we never actually see it happen, and the story was published in that time period, we would have to assume that the story was canon, wouldn't we? The writers of the TV series would have pulled that idea right out of the story, making the rest of the story necessarily true as well. Does anybody know this, whether he was found by the Pakled ship on-screen in the first episode or found off-screen in the time between that and 'Brothers'? It would be simple to find out when the book containing the story was published, and that would clear it all up instantly.

Lore relays the story of how he was found by the Pakleds in "Brothers", so the discovery of him drifting in space occurs "off screen". Also, you're making the assumption that the short story was written in between the episodes "Datalore" and "Brothers". You are also assuming that the TV writers even pay much attention to the novels and short stories (many of them do not).
-Mike

Posted: **Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:05 am**

Well, that was the question, whether or not the story was written in between those episodes. It turns out it wasn't, so the whole thing is moot. Meh.

Posted: **Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:51 pm**

"I am Become Death" (1999), along with other short stories were written and published in a complilation volume well after TNG had ended it's run in 1994.
-Mike

Posted: **Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:53 pm**

WILGA wrote:According to Memory Alpha, Lore has had four appearances:
"Datalore" (Season One)

"Brothers" (Season Four)

"Descent, Part I" (Season Six)

"Descent, Part II" (Season Seven).

And according to Memory Beta, there is, in addition, a TNG short story, named "I Am Become Death".

Memory Beta about Lore wrote:Lore

Lore was a Soong-type android constructed by Dr. Noonien Soong circa 2335. While the most successful of Soong's androids to date, Lore exhibited antisocial tendencies which forced Soong to deactivate and disassemble him. Tragically, Lore was first able to contact a Crystalline Entity, which destroyed all organic life on Omicron Theta.

Lore was rediscovered in 2364 by the crew of USS Enterprise-D. Chief engineer Argyle and Dr. Beverly Crusher reassembled and reactivated the android, who then attempted to steal Data's identity and to summon Crystalline Entity to the Enterprise. He was stopped by Data, who beamed Lore out into space. (TNG episode: "Datalore")

Lore drifted in space for close to two years before he was found by a Pakled ship. (TNG: "Brothers")
Also aboard the Pakled ship was a version of Data from the far future of an alternate timeline. He hoped to enlist Lore to change his timeline, but found Lore's positronic matrix had been fused during his time in space, and could not be revived. Data then assumed Lore's identity in order to affect these changes himself. (TNG short story: "I Am Become Death")

In 2367, Lore answered a homing signal intended to draw Data to Soong's new laboratory on Terlina III. There, Lore posed as Data, took the emotion chip Soong had designed for his brother, and fatally injured the doctor. (TNG episode: "Brothers")

In 2369, Lore encountered a group of Borg disconnected from the Collective as a result of Hugh's sense of individuality. Lore established himself as their leader, and directed them to attack Federation targets. This brought the Enterprise and Data to investigate, and Lore attempted to manipulate his brother by broadcasting emotions from the stolen chip. Data, with the help of Geordi La Forge, was able to overcome this influence, and then to shoot and deactivate Lore. (TNG episodes: "Descent, Parts I and II")
Star Trek Expanded Universe has no entry about Lore.

I don't know, where else one could search. I'm sorry.

very belated thanks to wilga, after years of keeping an eye open in bookstores, thrift stores, flea markets and the like, i finally gave up and checked amazon.com for the volume of 'strange new worlds' which includes the lore story.. and found it for 1 goddamn cent plus shipping. thanks much, it was awesome!

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