Perpetual Motion in Star Trek?

[Lucky]

I keep rereading this quote:

LAFORGE: Yeah, but locking it into a diagnostic cycle so that the pattern wouldn't degrade, and then cross-connecting it phase inducers to provide a regenerative power source, that's absolutely brilliant.

, and it repeatedly sounds like Laforge is saying that the United Federation of Planets has a way to generate energy that once started is self perpetuating. Am I reading this correct? Is Laforge saying that the Federation has perpetual motion machines that produce a net gain?

[359]

It does state something like it, I read that a few days ago and noticed it as well. The writers do seem to enjoy driving home the 'fiction' in Science Fiction.

Also such a thing is implied in DS9: "Call to Arms"

Rom: "Self-replication. That's the only answer."
Dax: "Self-replication?"
Rom: "If the mines are going to be small, we'll need a lot of them. And we'll need a way to replace them quickly if the Jem'Hadar try to blast their way through. And, uh-oh. I forgot to request new quarters. Mine are too small. Where are Leeta and I going to live?"
...
O'Brien: "We could equip each mine with a replicator unit.
Dax: "No matter how many the Jem'Hadar destroy, there'd always be more.

As with the quote from Kirk referring to the Enterprise's power source as regenerating in TOS: "Mark of Gideon"

Kirk: "Well, let's see. Power, that's no problem, it regenerates. And food. We have enough to feed a crew of four hundred and thirty for five years. So that should last us"

That last one is contradicted several times, and the premise seems to usually be unusual to the characters, so it is not common tech. Although it is possible each refers to drawing the power from some exotic means. Stargate's ZPM jumps to mind.

[Trinoya]

Let us not forget the Type 3 Phaser, which has fully-autonomous recharge capability per Kira in DS9: Return to Grace.


I'd say it's obvious they have overcome the issue with generating perpetual energy/motion (likely through subspace hijinks), the real question is what are the limitations of such a system. We know they still have immense power requirements since they use anti-matter so it is quite likely any 'infinite' energy tricks the federation knows are not very effective, imho of course.

[Mr. Oragahn]

It does state something like it, I read that a few days ago and noticed it as well. The writers do seem to enjoy driving home the 'fiction' in Science Fiction.

Also such a thing is implied in DS9: "Call to Arms"

Rom: "Self-replication. That's the only answer."
Dax: "Self-replication?"
Rom: "If the mines are going to be small, we'll need a lot of them. And we'll need a way to replace them quickly if the Jem'Hadar try to blast their way through. And, uh-oh. I forgot to request new quarters. Mine are too small. Where are Leeta and I going to live?"
...
O'Brien: "We could equip each mine with a replicator unit.
Dax: "No matter how many the Jem'Hadar destroy, there'd always be more.

As with the quote from Kirk referring to the Enterprise's power source as regenerating in TOS: "Mark of Gideon"

Kirk: "Well, let's see. Power, that's no problem, it regenerates. And food. We have enough to feed a crew of four hundred and thirty for five years. So that should last us"

That last one is contradicted several times, and the premise seems to usually be unusual to the characters, so it is not common tech. Although it is possible each refers to drawing the power from some exotic means. Stargate's ZPM jumps to mind.

First: tapping subspace and particles for energy.
Second: scooping hydrogen and other matter to resplenish fusion core and even produce deuterium slush for later use.

[359]

First: tapping subspace and particles for energy.
Second: scooping hydrogen and other matter to resplenish fusion core and even produce deuterium slush for later use.

Hence the ZPM reference, while it is not perpetual motion type free energy, it is free energy in the same sense as an oil well. You create an object and it taps into something that gives more energy than it took to create the object.

[Lucky]

I'd say it's obvious they have overcome the issue with generating perpetual energy/motion (likely through subspace hijinks), the real question is what are the limitations of such a system. We know they still have immense power requirements since they use anti-matter so it is quite likely any 'infinite' energy tricks the federation knows are not very effective, imho of course.

We see a ship in "Booby Trap" that has been sitting there for about a thousand years according to Picard, and it still has power. I'd think the ship would have run out of fuel long before the Enterprise-D found it.

We see a ship in "Relics" crash into something, and years later still have power, and the Enterprise-D seems to have lost main power and auxiliary power, but still had power.

In "Timeless" Voyager still seemed to have power running to many of its systems years after crashing.

In "Destiny" we learn that Starfleet requires 2 backup systems for at least some systems on station and likely ships.

The Defiant's Phaser cannons used modular power cells.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Ph ... r_cell.jpg

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Given Warp drives require Dilithium to function they are not simply using matter and anti-matter as fuel. We see in TNG episode Pen Pals that diithium blows up planets simply from siting in the crust of planets at time, and we are repeatedly told that dilithium is the actual fuel in many Voyager episodes with the warpcore being stated to be a pressure vessel in Drone.

The Next Generation: Pen Pals
WESLEY: Drema Four has the largest deposit of dilithium ore ever recorded. It's also laid down in a very unusual pattern. The crystals are growing to form perfectly aligned lattices. 

HILDEBRANDT: The ore is forming generator strata. 

ALANS: Which creates a piezoelectric effect.

Voyager: Drone
ONE: Warp core. Fuelled by a matter - antimatter reaction which produces a maximum output of four thousand terradynes per second, providing power for faster than light propulsion.

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Maybe there is something special about the output of a warpcore and fusion reactors that makes them better for certain things?

Maybe the writers just forgot they had had limitless power sources?

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Have you tried to figure out a power to weight ratio or a power to volume ratio?