Ability of Starfleet/Imperial vessels to conduct operations

For polite and reasoned discussion of Star Wars and/or Star Trek.
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Who is like God arbour
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Post by Who is like God arbour » Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:21 am

But that's exactly the question.

Was it necessary to repair the engines? Was it really hard work?

It's your claim, prove it.

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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:23 pm

I'd like to point out that among other things, Watto owned at least one pit droid.

Besides, as I said, a kid doesn't need to be a genius to assemble parts which should be more or less simple to assemble, with the help of distinct blueprints and a droid, notably after years fiddling with spare parts in a junkyard and doing related things before that.

He's probably smart, but it cannot be denied that a kid put into a hobby very early and repeatedly will grow a "natural talent" for this.
I really encourage you to check out the bio on André Agassi early life.

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Post by Praeothmin » Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:23 pm

W.I.L.G.A, this was your first post in the thread:
To be honest, to me, much of Star Wars technology looks like it supports plug and play.

What exactly has Anakin done?

He has taken the engines of an old star fighter and has coupled them to the pod. Wow...

The only difficult part seems to me to get at such engines. But as the slave of a junk dealer that was not so difficult.

Do we have any evidence that he has worked at the engines or has done more than only couple them with the pod?

And if, how difficult was, what he has done really?
An opinion, which you really didn't prove either.
Your following post had you saying, among other things:
I have no reason to assume, that it is otherwise with the fighter engines and the pod. It's not that difficult, if you only have to insert plug A in slot B three times.
Again, an opinion which you have not proven.

So now you ask of me to prove my claim?
Since they do not mention anywhere, except, perhaps in the TPM novelisation (which I haven't read), I cannot.
But my points are no less valid then yours, and in fact make more sense.

Let's recap shall we?
A 9 year old slave, without enough money to buy his or his mother's freedoms, manages to find enough parts to assemble a completely functionnal PodRacer.

Even if the last act of connecting everything toghether is as easy as connecting a DVD player to a TV, my opinion is that since he had to salvage those parts (being a poor slave and all), he most likely did not find fully functionnal engines, if even complete ones.
So it is logical to assume that he had to do some repairs on those engines.
Same thing with the nacelle.

Your position is:
He soemhow magically found fully functionnal engines and a nacelle, and only had to connect them toghether.

Which explanation assumes the most, considering Anakin was considered by all to be incredibly gifted?
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Besides, as I said, a kid doesn't need to be a genius to assemble parts which should be more or less simple to assemble, with the help of distinct blueprints and a droid, notably after years fiddling with spare parts in a junkyard and doing related things before that.
See my answer above...

Today, we have motorcycles.
Simple engines, simple frame, technology's been around for almost 100 years.
Yet I'd like you to find me a kid with blueprints who was able to assemble a fully functionnal mortocycle with parts he found in dumps, or parts he acquired from other sources.
Even if all he has to do is assemble the motorcycle, I doubt you'll find many 9 year olds who can do it...
He's probably smart, but it cannot be denied that a kid put into a hobby very early and repeatedly will grow a "natural talent" for this.
Agreed, but it is also undeniable that not all human beings have the same potential, physically or intellectually.
I really encourage you to check out the bio on André Agassi early life.
Who was considered gifted even by his peers, had way better then average reflexes and hand-eye coordination.
You just pointed out a "genius" in his own field, which were physical andeavours requiring great coordination and reflexes.

I'll see your Andre Agassi, and raise you 1 Mozart and 1 Beethoven... :)

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Who is like God arbour
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Post by Who is like God arbour » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:11 pm

Praeothmin, thank you for the summary of my postings. At least now I know, that I was consistent.
Praeothmin wrote:
Who is like God arbour wrote:To be honest, to me, much of Star Wars technology looks like it supports plug and play.

What exactly has Anakin done?

He has taken the engines of an old star fighter and has coupled them to the pod. Wow...

The only difficult part seems to me to get at such engines. But as the slave of a junk dealer that was not so difficult.

Do we have any evidence that he has worked at the engines or has done more than only couple them with the pod?

And if, how difficult was, what he has done really?
An opinion, which you really didn't prove either.
Your following post had you saying, among other things:
Who is like God arbour wrote:I have no reason to assume, that it is otherwise with the fighter engines and the pod. It's not that difficult, if you only have to insert plug A in slot B three times.
Again, an opinion which you have not proven.
What do you think is the opinion in these posts?
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As I see it, there is no opinion.

There is an observation about Star Wars technology, that was founded with the posts you have embezzled
  • Who is like God arbour wrote:That's why I have said, that the Star Wars technology seems to me plug-and-play capable.

    We have seen it especially with the droids, where it was possible to plug the head of C3PO on the body of a battle droid.

    I have no reason to assume, that it is otherwise with the fighter engines and the pod. It's not that difficult, if you only have to insert plug A in slot B three times.

    [...]
      • and
    Who is like God arbour wrote:[...] we could see such a characteristic in the movie. The podracer and the engines were brought to the grand arena and only there reassembled.

    Fact is, that a podracer has only three main components: a one-pilot cockpit and two engines. The cockpit is attached to the two engines via strong cables and energy binders projected from each engine are connecting both engines together, forming a loose triangular configuration with the pod itself.

    If one has two serviceable engines and a pod, the establishing of the connections shouldn't be that difficult.
and, from that observation, conclusions and extrapolations.

As I see it, there is only one gap in my logic: the question, if the engines would have needed repair.

And as I have said, as the slave of a junk dealer, it is not that difficult to get two functional engines. Many things are thrown away although they are still functional. Look how many cars are driven to a junkyard. They are still able to drive but are thrown away nevertheless. The same is possible with starfighters. Their engines may still be functional but they are thrown away nevertheless. Insofar, it is possible, that Anakin could have gotten these engines without paying one single sickle.

My line of argument is plausible. Further proof is impossible. I can't prove, that Anakin has not repaired the engines because that would be a negation. One usually can't prove that something has not happened.

You, on the other hand, are claiming, that the engines were defect and that Anakin has repaired them. But you have no proof for that speculation. And your speculation would demand that Anakin is more than only a genius. But that wouldn't be necessary if we assume for lack of contrary evidence that the engines were functional.

It would still be not a simple task for a nine year - but it would not be nearly impossible - as it would be even for an adult, who has not studied aerospace engineering.

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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:32 pm

Praeothmin wrote:
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Besides, as I said, a kid doesn't need to be a genius to assemble parts which should be more or less simple to assemble, with the help of distinct blueprints and a droid, notably after years fiddling with spare parts in a junkyard and doing related things before that.
See my answer above...

Today, we have motorcycles.
Simple engines, simple frame, technology's been around for almost 100 years.
Yet I'd like you to find me a kid with blueprints who was able to assemble a fully functionnal mortocycle with parts he found in dumps, or parts he acquired from other sources.
Even if all he has to do is assemble the motorcycle, I doubt you'll find many 9 year olds who can do it...
With the possible help of droids and maybe even people who were never cited, and with evidence that certain systems can self repair themselves to some extent. He's proven he knew some stuff from the world outside. Some guy might have given him a hand.
More factually, didn't he swap some energy plug during the race, after extinguishing some fire, then pressed a button repeatedly for the left engine to suddenly return to life by magic after some time?
With such systems, one kid would find a great deal of help here.
Who was considered gifted even by his peers, had way better then average reflexes and hand-eye coordination.
You just pointed out a "genius" in his own field, which were physical andeavours requiring great coordination and reflexes.

I'll see your Andre Agassi, and raise you 1 Mozart and 1 Beethoven... :)
Actually, all examples show that these geniuses were put into contact with the elements that made them famous extremely early.
The gift noticed by Agassi's peers, notably reflexes and coordination, was largely due to the training he was given by his father even the kid was in his craddle. That's pretty much the damn key if you want to make your kid a brute in a given domain. Wolfgang's father? Musician with talent and who put his whole family to musical instruments. Ludwig's father? A tenor with harsh teaching methods. Andre's father? Tennisman with plans for his offspring to shine in Tennis.
It's incredible how you can make a brain extremely efficient at a given domain if you work on it from birth. It's no surprise, in that regard, that the clones would be fearsome soldiers since trained from go.

Now, by TPM's script, Anakin and his mother were sold to Gardulla the Hutt when Annie was 3 years old. Some time after that, of maybe right after that, the Hutt lost a bet against Watto. Which means that Anakin could have been fiddling with junk and stuff for a maximum of five-six years, and was into the podrace environment very early, which in such conditions would simply grow on most kids living in Mos Espa and near the Boonta Eve track.

Anakin is not stupid, but his very early contact with the podracing milieu and transfer to Watto certainly "helped" a lot.

Now, regarding the topic, we're getting a bit lost. The point we initially had, I think, was that the technicians in Wars, in general, had a lot of help from the droids and more or less automatised and standardized tech which has been existing for millenia.

In comparison, Trek has nothing of that. What this means is although Trek's techs seem to be more qualified based on logic, it would be fairly easier to maintain ships in Star Wars.

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Post by Who is like God arbour » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:16 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Now, regarding the topic, we're getting a bit lost. The point we initially had, I think, was that the technicians in Wars, in general, had a lot of help from the droids and more or less automatised and standardized tech which has been existing for millenia.

In comparison, Trek has nothing of that. What this means is although Trek's techs seem to be more qualified based on logic, it would be fairly easier to maintain ships in Star Wars.
It's a pity, that we have not seen many ships in the Star Wars movies.

But the one ship that was shown the most, the Falcon, was a ship with much need for maintenance and manual work.

And, as we have seen, sometimes such maintenance is even not possible, if there is no droid, which is able to communicate with your own ship (or moisture vaporators).

Starfleet engineers are not in need of droids or computers. BUT nevertheless, their computers can do a lot. Many work can be done on a computer console. If for example a circuit is broken, they can make a bypass with the computer.

Another question is, if you are willing to take into account, what is for example written in the DS9 novel "The Search" [ http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/The_Search_(novel) ]. I've only the German version. But there was said, that the computer of the Defiant has started to repair the battle damages while Sisko and the rest of the Crew were held by the founders in the cave on the founder's homeworld.

That was not explicitly said in the series. But it would explain, how the Defiant was able to fly home, after the founders have let its crew free - although, when we have seen the Defiant the last time, it was heavy damaged and not warp capable any more.
  • Otherwise we would have to assume, that the Defiant has stayed in orbit around the founder's homeworld while its crew has repaired the damage or that the damage was repaired by the Dominion.
And it would for example fit with Riker's statement, that the Enterprise cleans itself, if we would assume, that it is using its transporters to beam away dirt. (How else would it clean itself?)

In combination with replicators, I see no reason, why a ship should not be able to repair itself to a certain degree.

And it would explain, how the Voyager could have been like new at the end of each episode or, at the latest, to the beginning of the next episode, although it has taken heavy battle damages.

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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:41 pm

If the Defiant could self repair to some extent, then it does. It's a special ship of its kind mind you. It's possible new systems were found or integrated into newer classes. Is there anything similar about the Sovereign-class?

As for the Millenium Falcon, it's a ship that is way past the standard model.
It's a pure hotrod with many modifications which Solo modified as much as he could without relying on droids for the translation with the computer.
It's rather telling in fact. It seems that Solo managed to modify his ship so much that he can work without the computer, like if he decided to cut the computer's access to several regions of the ship.
However, it seems that the certain systems are still controlled by the computer and only this computer can make a diagnostic.

Or the other solution, Solo also changed the computer for some cheap one years ago, and made so many changes that much like a droid, it's literally fused with the many ship's modifications, so much that Solo couldn't really change that computer for a more appropriate one without having to dismantle the whole ship.

Or maybe a bit of both.

In a way or another, this ship is not a good example.

As for the rebels, they seemed short on certain resources, and would need a lot of manual work to get their ships battle ready.

The Naboo, on the other hand, seemed to park their N-1 in wall slots and with no noticeable way to access them... we even wonder, up to this day, how pilots get there to begin with. Jump pads?
Automatized systems would make it easy to maintain such fighters. Plug them in the wall, feed them with energy, and voila, the computer does the work.

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Post by Who is like God arbour » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:13 pm

We have not seen much from ships of the Sovereign-class. But it is newer than the Defiant. Insofar it seems to be plausible to assume, that it would have similar or even moderner systems.

And the miraculous repairs of the Voyager are indicating, that the Intrepid class has also automatic repair systems. Otherwise, repairs without even the smallest scars on the hull shouldn't be possible. Insofar it seems to be plausible to assume, that all ships, that were build after the creation of the Intrepid-class, would have such automatic repair systems. And it is possible, that the Intrepid class is not the first class with such systems. If such a system, as I have suggested, is akin to the self cleaning system of the Galaxy class, it is absolutely possible, that already the Galaxy class and Nebula class have had such automatic repair system.



And I know that the Falcon is not exemplary. That's why it is a pity, that we have not seen lots of other ships in situations, where maintenance and repairs was necessary (but the rebels who have had problems to get the speeders ready for take-off at the cold and uncle Owen, who has needed a droid to communicate with his own moisture vaporators (no ship but also an electronic device)).

The question is, if we have other examples out of Star Wars, that would show, how maintenance and repair friendly ships are?

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Post by Cocytus » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:16 pm

Mr. Oragahn wrote:Now, regarding the topic, we're getting a bit lost. The point we initially had, I think, was that the technicians in Wars, in general, had a lot of help from the droids and more or less automatised and standardized tech which has been existing for millenia.

In comparison, Trek has nothing of that. What this means is although Trek's techs seem to be more qualified based on logic, it would be fairly easier to maintain ships in Star Wars.
As we saw in TPM, the repair droids are an obvious advantage. But Trek ships are quite hardy vessels, and the computer can perform most functions which would otherwise be served by droids. (The ship-cleaning statement is from "Up The Long Ladder")

The mouse droids we've seen several times apparently lead people from one part of a ship to the other, a necessity when dealing with Manhattan-sized SSDs or the Death Star. As we saw in "Encounter at Farpoint" the E-D's computer can do that just fine. In short, a droid is not necessary to fulfill that function.

Droids such as 3PO serve as protocol and interpreter units, a necessity for diplomatic functions and exploration. The Star Trek universe has universal translators in abundance, which can quickly interpret and build a vocabulary and syntax database even for a language which it had not encountered, as it did with the Skreeans in "Sanctuary." Again, interpreter droids aren't necessary, the computer manages by itself. It takes a really "out there" langauge, as spoken by Fennim in "Think Tank," to befuddle the translator.

Droids also repair ships and vehicles, as the pit droid and R-Series droids do. We saw in "One," when Voyager's systems were beginning to succomb to the effects of subnucleonic radiation, Seven of Nine simply ordered a degraded gelpack sequence bypassed, and computer function was restored to normal. We've seen in DS9 people order the computers on Runabouts to beam them back up. We've seen numerous times people order a variety of repairs, power rerouting, force fields, etc. verbally, and the computer performing said task. Federation vessels enjoy both considerable versatility of computer function and considerable redundancy of systems, enabling them to function even when damaged ("Year of Hell') or seriously undermanned ("Workforce"). One counterexample I can think of is "Haunting of Deck Twelve," in which Janeway tells the alien that the ship's technology needs to be maintained or else it would fail in a few weeks. Of course in this instance the computer, which would otherwise be performing most of that maintenance, was taken over, and possibly compromised, by the alien. And it was, after all, a story being retold by Neelix, and since he goofed with his "nadions from the nacelles" comment, (and Icheb nailed him for it), his retelling of events can't be counted on for too much accuracy.

The one place it gets different is with specialized technologies which aren't commonplace in the Federation, meaning the computer itself isn't as familiar with them. The example that springs to mind is when Michael Eddington disabled the cloaking device in TDIC by sabotaging a key component, and O'Brien's estimation of repair time was ten hours. Here, I think a droid with a sensor palette, which could levitate its way through the Jeffries Tubes, would considerably reduce repair time. It took O'Brien a while to actually discover what Eddington had done. A droid flying through the tubes would be much faster than a person crawling through them.

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Post by Praeothmin » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:35 pm

As I see it, there is only one gap in my logic: the question, if the engines would have needed repair.
And as I see it, there a more then one: you assume that droids and engines and PodRacers are of comparable complexity.
I see no reason why they should be.
On the one hand, we are talking about motorized computers.
On the other, we are talking about Jet engines controlled from a nacelle, apparently needing energy transfer between them. And at the basis, since engines need fuel, deal with propulsion, they're somewhat more complicated then computers.


Then, there's the question of whether or not the engines needed repairs.
And as I have said, as the slave of a junk dealer, it is not that difficult to get two functional engines. Many things are thrown away although they are still functional. Look how many cars are driven to a junkyard. They are still able to drive but are thrown away nevertheless.Insofar, it is possible, that Anakin could have gotten these engines without paying one single sickle.
And how many of those cars could you race with without any repairs, W.I.L.G.A?
Very few I would wager.
In fact, I have yet to see a fully functionnal, ready to race vehicule that was sent to a scrapyard simply because it was old.

Problem is, Anakin's PodRacer was able not only to race, was was definitly one of the fastest ones on course.
My line of argument is plausible.
If you like to strech SOD...
You, on the other hand, are claiming, that the engines were defect and that Anakin has repaired them. But you have no proof for that speculation. And your speculation would demand that Anakin is more than only a genius.
And neither do you have any proof to your speculation W.I.L.G.A.
Mike suggested that Anakin could have gotten plans for his PodRacer, to which I agreed a few pages ago.
A Force-guided Genius with an existing plan could well repair and assemble a working PodRacer.
But that wouldn't be necessary if we assume for lack of contrary evidence that the engines were functional.
The fact the Anakin and his friends were still working on the engines on the very eve of the race does indeed suggest that the engines needed repairs, providing more evidence for my points then yours.
With the possible help of droids and maybe even people who were never cited, and with evidence that certain systems can self repair themselves to some extent. He's proven he knew some stuff from the world outside. Some guy might have given him a hand.
I don't disagree.
It still shows him a a very bright (or at least mechanically talented 9 years old).
More factually, didn't he swap some energy plug during the race, after extinguishing some fire, then pressed a button repeatedly for the left engine to suddenly return to life by magic after some time?
With such systems, one kid would find a great deal of help here.
And sometimes, when a computer "freezes", trying to get the "Task Manager" by pressing the "ctrl + alt + del" keys repeatadly will suddenly work only on the 10th try (I am speaking from personnal experience).
Actually, all examples show that these geniuses were put into contact with the elements that made them famous extremely early.
The gift noticed by Agassi's peers, notably reflexes and coordination, was largely due to the training he was given by his father even the kid was in his craddle. That's pretty much the damn key if you want to make your kid a brute in a given domain. Wolfgang's father? Musician with talent and who put his whole family to musical instruments. Ludwig's father? A tenor with harsh teaching methods. Andre's father? Tennisman with plans for his offspring to shine in Tennis.
It's incredible how you can make a brain extremely efficient at a given domain if you work on it from birth. It's no surprise, in that regard, that the clones would be fearsome soldiers since trained from go.
Agreed, but not all the kids who were put in that kind of environment became world-class in their fields.
I have a friend who naturally picks up anything that interests him, and he's automatically good at it, even when he never even tried it before.
The guy is a natural.
Genetics does have its place in this (or, SW, the Force).
Which means that Anakin could have been fiddling with junk and stuff for a maximum of five-six years, and was into the podrace environment very early, which in such conditions would simply grow on most kids living in Mos Espa and near the Boonta Eve track.
Agreed, his environment allowed him to devellop his natural, above average gift.
But he still had to have a gift to become that good.
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Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:32 pm

I'm not convinced of that. Many kids lived in Mos Espa, but only Anakin was one of the few kids, if not the only one, to have access to spare parts that early, so much that he could probably live his escapism through podracing with more concrete experience than others.
We'd probably need some extensive sourcing about real life studies of the development of child brain and to what extent the average brain can become extremely good at something if put into a given activity very early.

Now, does this detail really matters for the topic at hand? Because I can't even see if we disagree or agree on it in fact.
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Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:59 am

Cocytus wrote: Droids such as 3PO serve as protocol and interpreter units, a necessity for diplomatic functions and exploration. The Star Trek universe has universal translators in abundance, which can quickly interpret and build a vocabulary and syntax database even for a language which it had not encountered, as it did with the Skreeans in "Sanctuary." Again, interpreter droids aren't necessary, the computer manages by itself. It takes a really "out there" langauge, as spoken by Fennim in "Think Tank," to befuddle the translator.


As we saw in DS9's "Little Green Men" (Season 4), the universal translators (UTs) are not just ship computer-bound technology, but one that is small and extremely portable. A tiny device that one can have implanted in your ear. Or at least that is the case with Ferengi UTs.
Cocytus wrote: Droids also repair ships and vehicles, as the pit droid and R-Series droids do. We saw in "One," when Voyager's systems were beginning to succomb to the effects of subnucleonic radiation, Seven of Nine simply ordered a degraded gelpack sequence bypassed, and computer function was restored to normal. We've seen in DS9 people order the computers on Runabouts to beam them back up. We've seen numerous times people order a variety of repairs, power rerouting, force fields, etc. verbally, and the computer performing said task. Federation vessels enjoy both considerable versatility of computer function and considerable redundancy of systems, enabling them to function even when damaged ("Year of Hell') or seriously undermanned ("Workforce").
.
Amazingly, throughout much of Voyager, we saw the ship make it by on it's own for about 7 years with just 140 or so personel. Yet the ship looked like the day it left DS9 for the Badlands for the most part, and the crew even managed to do extensive overhaul work, like removing and refurbishing the warp coils as seen in "Nightingale" (VOY, Season 7).
-Mike

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Post by Who is like God arbour » Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:38 am

Praeothmin wrote:And as I see it, there a more then one: you assume that droids and engines and PodRacers are of comparable complaxity.
I see no reason why they should be.
As I have said already:
Who is like God arbour wrote:we could see such a characteristic in the movie. The podracer and the engines were brought to the grand arena and only there reassembled.
Try that with a plane or car from today. You would need at least hours to assemble a motor in a car or the engines in a plane. It is not plug and play as it is apparently with the podracer. That's why I conclude, that the assembling of the engines with the cockpit is a simple affair compared to what would be necessary with our technology.
Praeothmin wrote:And how many of those cars could you race with without any repairs, W.I.L.G.A?
Very few I would wager.
In fact, I have yet to see a fully functionnal, ready to race vehicule that was sent to a scrapyard simply because it was old.
You will be astonished. But there are even whole fields of planes, which were still able to fly before they were discharged (Aircraft boneyards).

And of course it would be theoretical possible to take two engines from a supersonic fighter and build them in a selfmade plane instead of the engines of a Boeing 747.

I admit, that, with our not plug and play technology, it would be very difficult. But even if you have done it once, you would need a lot of time to reassemble it, if you have taken it apart again. But the reassembling of the podracer was a simple affair, what demonstrates the plug and play technology, that was observed in other areas too.

And don't forget, that Anakin has taken two military grade engines and not two engines from civilian ships. That's the difference and was his advantage. While others have used, to stay at our illustration, Boeing 747 engines for their small pods, Anakin has used engines from a supersonic fighter. The one have more power, the other have more speed.

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Post by Praeothmin » Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:02 pm

W.I.L.G.A wrote:As I have said already:Who is like God arbour wrote:
we could see such a characteristic in the movie. The podracer and the engines were brought to the grand arena and only there reassembled.

Try that with a plane or car from today. You would need at least hours to assemble a motor in a car or the engines in a plane. It is not plug and play as it is apparently with the podracer. That's why I conclude, that the assembling of the engines with the cockpit is a simple affair compared to what would be necessary with our technology.
The problem is that the PodRacer was fully assembled before, in Anakin's backyard, on the day before the race.
Remember when Jar-Jar got his tongue zapped?
And how can you logically expect everything to work well toghether without even testing it first?
Even in the real world, we continually test things that we know work well, just to make sure we have taken all the "kinks" out of them...
You will be astonished. But there are even whole fields of planes, which were still able to fly before they were discharged (Aircraft boneyards).
Indeed.
But how available are they?
And how many are actually still capable of flying
without any tinkering or repairs, even minor ones?
I'm willing to bet none at all, or very, very few...
And of course it would be theoretical possible to take two engines from a supersonic fighter and build them in a selfmade plane instead of the engines of a Boeing 747.
Not without major refits, none of which would be easily performed by a 9 years old slave boy from the desert...

If SW's technology was so "Plug-and-Play" as you think, then why does Han's ship give him so much problems?
It should work perfectly well, since, using your PodRacer logic, all Han really did was plug some military grade shields and Hyperdrive onto the Millenium Falcon.
Just plug it and it'll work...
Except it doesn't always, as the movies showed us many times...

Look, I'm not convincing you, you're not convincing me, we're turning around in circles, so why not agree to disagree?
It will be much simpler... ;)
Mr. Oragahn wrote:Because I can't even see if we disagree or agree on it in fact.
We agree... I think... ;)

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Praeothmin
Jedi Master
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Post by Praeothmin » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:10 pm

I decided to whip out the good ol' DVD of TPM last night and rewatched the parts that were related to W.I.L.G.A's and Oragahn and my discussion.

On the afternoon before the race, when Anakin has Qui-Gon invited for supper, Anakin says that he built his Pod Racer without Watto's knowledge.
How could a poor slave boy acquire two fully functioning engines without his master's knowledge when that master is also the owner of the junk yard where the kid works?

Another piece of information thrown in there happens when Anakin is fiddling with the Pod Racer with Jar-Jar and friends.
One of Anakin's friends says that "That thing'll never work! You've been working on that for years!"
Notice the plural.
It means that Anakin has started assembling his racer at least 2 years ago, when he was 7.

How could it take him years to assemble a Pod Racer if all he needed to do was to find 2 fully working engines and plug them into a nacelle?
It couldn't.

In view of the information above, it stands to reason that my explanations are the most probable.

That Anakin, Force-guided genius that he is, started assembling his Pod Racer piece by piece when he was no older then 7 years old (perhaps using plans he had found, perhaps not).
That over the course of at least 2 years, he slowly acquired the parts he needed, in order for his owner not to learn about his "project", and with these parts he assembled 2 fully functionnal engines and a controller nacelle to eventually enter it in a race.

Thats not counting the fact that he assembled C-3PO piece by piece, as evidenced by the fact that 3PO still doesn't have any coverings...

Anakin is a whizz with droids and machines... :)

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