Jedi; Defenders of the Galaxy or a farce?

[Mith]

Actually, the Vulcans have more control on their emotions than the Jedi do. Hell, Mr. Spock is probably just as disciplined as Yoda and he can even do a nerve pinch, mind meld, and his own version of the Jedi mindtrick (basically mindfucked someone into opening a door to their cell).

[Praeothmin]

What I meant Mith, is that Jedi would be better able to control their emotions if they were used to living with them, not that they suppress their emotions better then Vulcans...

And most Vulcan psi powers are short range (read, "touching" range).

[CrippledVulture]

Question:

Aside from the "native" defenders of various planets (Wookies, Gungan, etc.), the Jedi are the only "citizens" of the Republic who willingly walk into combat. The army during the Clone Wars consists of clones, clones, and even more clones in every role from grunt to starfighter pilot to bridge officer with the Jedi as generals, admirals, and badass ace in the hole super-special forces.

Unless I'm mistaken, it's never really spelled out whether this is standard operating procedure or something unique to that particular war. The Jedi seem to be very good in this role and it could be one of the functions of the order. However, Sidious could have engineered it as part of his plan to hunt them all down as the war drew to a close. Maybe it's both; a standard procedure that the Sith had counted on. I'm not sure. Anyone?

[Mith]

What I meant Mith, is that Jedi would be better able to control their emotions if they were used to living with them, not that they suppress their emotions better then Vulcans...

The overall effect is less than that of Vulcans.

And most Vulcan psi powers are short range (read, "touching" range).

Actually, Mr.Spock used the Jedi mind trick in A Taste of Armageddon on a guard to open the door to their room.

[Mith]

Question:

Aside from the "native" defenders of various planets (Wookies, Gungan, etc.), the Jedi are the only "citizens" of the Republic who willingly walk into combat. The army during the Clone Wars consists of clones, clones, and even more clones in every role from grunt to starfighter pilot to bridge officer with the Jedi as generals, admirals, and badass ace in the hole super-special forces.

Unless I'm mistaken, it's never really spelled out whether this is standard operating procedure or something unique to that particular war. The Jedi seem to be very good in this role and it could be one of the functions of the order. However, Sidious could have engineered it as part of his plan to hunt them all down as the war drew to a close. Maybe it's both; a standard procedure that the Sith had counted on. I'm not sure. Anyone?

It probably was, but I'm willing to bet day to day ship operations consisted of mechanics and the like. I'm willing to guess that the Clone Army was actually an extension of the Jedi Order, rather than an army of the Republic. Hence why the Jedi would serve as high ranking officers.

[Mr. Oragahn]

No, that's all wrong. Just watch the film, I'm not going to argue for you when you get your facts wrong.

Nope, it's not completely wrong.
The order for the army itself came to the Kaminoans from Jedi Master (a council member, no less) Sifo Dias (as stated in the movie), who himself was said to be an old apprentice to Count Dooku, if memory serves.
So the Jedi order was in part involved in the Grand Army of the Republic's making...

It has never been officially involved, and even the Council knew jack of that order. More than likely, the funds came from Dooku and key partners, and maybe even banks involved in both the Republic and CIS. Sifo Dyas was either used as a cover ID, or was a true corrupted member, probably killed by his master (or another reason), or both. The possibility (and not fact) that a Jedi looking person managed to order the construction of a whole army of clones does certainly not officially and legitimately involve the Jedi Order, which again knew nothing of this.
I mean for crissake, it's right in the film!
Mith tries to argue so, but it's just all wrong.

Which is, IMO, the worst possible way to deal with them.
Look at Vulcans in ST.
They also suppress all emotions, but when those emotions come up, for some reason, they are helpless before them, because they are not used to deal with them.
Jedi would have much greater control, and run less risks of falling to the darkside whenever they have a little "booboo" if they were used to dealing with emotions all the time...

The Jedi deal with them in a more open way. They can smile and you could feel tension between Obi-Wan and Anakin in AOTC, and ROTS. However, they force themselves not to let passion dictate their thoughts. They try to keep cool.

The Vulcans are beyond cool, they're dead cold.
It has reached a point when even the automatic brain associations which are used to notice and decipher humour and have the body react accordingly seem not to work anymore.

I'd say it depends on the level of the powers, but power isn't just mystical.
Power comes under many guises, and not all the powerful people in the world are murderers, or cause murders and mayhem.

No, power is not such a mystical entity, but its very existence represents something which easily nurtures corruption. There are many reasons why people granted super natural powers, TK and mind tricks, would be greatly tempted to use them, no matter their motives, good or bad. Some will because they think they have to, other because they can, some will see this as a tragedy and either try to control themselves, or go mad or suicide themselves.

Question:

Aside from the "native" defenders of various planets (Wookies, Gungan, etc.), the Jedi are the only "citizens" of the Republic who willingly walk into combat. The army during the Clone Wars consists of clones, clones, and even more clones in every role from grunt to starfighter pilot to bridge officer with the Jedi as generals, admirals, and badass ace in the hole super-special forces.

Unless I'm mistaken, it's never really spelled out whether this is standard operating procedure or something unique to that particular war. The Jedi seem to be very good in this role and it could be one of the functions of the order. However, Sidious could have engineered it as part of his plan to hunt them all down as the war drew to a close. Maybe it's both; a standard procedure that the Sith had counted on. I'm not sure. Anyone?

It probably was, but I'm willing to bet day to day ship operations consisted of mechanics and the like. I'm willing to guess that the Clone Army was actually an extension of the Jedi Order, rather than an army of the Republic. Hence why the Jedi would serve as high ranking officers.

That's ultimately based on how armies are managed on Earth. The Jedi Order is a group which finds no perfect equivalent on Earth.
Add that to a stringent lack of expertise on the combat field (Geonosis, Kashyyyk, Neimodia, Christophsis, etc.), people equipped with freaking swords leading entire legions on open lands against legions or robots and machines, that's worse than Warhammer 40,000 and the chainsword debate.

If there had been a real military expertise to look at, never the Jedi would have allowed to lead armies in such a fashion.
This brings to another point, to reply to Vulture, in that the lack of experience helped Sidious put his plan into motion.

I think that keeping your enemies closer to you has been put into practice. What is the better way to kill Jedi than having them constantly reporting and being surrounded and outnumbered by clone troopers?

[Mike DiCenso]

What I meant Mith, is that Jedi would be better able to control their emotions if they were used to living with them, not that they suppress their emotions better then Vulcans...

And most Vulcan psi powers are short range (read, "touching" range).

Unless they get their hands on something like the Stone of Gol. ;-)
-Mike

[Mike DiCenso]

Actually, Mr.Spock used the Jedi mind trick in A Taste of Armageddon on a guard to open the door to their room.

Spock does this a second time on Kelinda, a Kelvin from the Andromeda galaxy in "By Any Other Name" [TOS, Season 2]. However the link is not fully established because of the Kelvin mind's very alien nature.
-Mike

[SailorSaturn13]

I think Jedi once indeed were strong and steady defenders, but by time of PT they deteriorated, along with Republic.
Moreover, they stuck to tradition - and probably prided themselves on that: "politicians come and go, we stand for 1000 years..." Sun goes up, day begins, Yoda trains youngsters and sits on the Council, etc.

[Mr. Oragahn]

I think Jedi once indeed were strong and steady defenders, but by time of PT they deteriorated, along with Republic.
Moreover, they stuck to tradition - and probably prided themselves on that: "politicians come and go, we stand for 1000 years..." Sun goes up, day begins, Yoda trains youngsters and sits on the Council, etc.

It's easy to get stuck in daily routines, and as easier to get stuck in semblance of superiority (as pointed out by Yoda in AOTC).

[Mike DiCenso]

This is one area where the Federation has some superiority over the Republic and the Empire is in it's relative youth and vibrancy. The Federation is constantly being challenged by more than just the occasional rebels or pirates. It has to deal with major rival interstellar powers that are equal to or slightly greater in capability than itself. And in the case of dealings with the Borg, it is completely outclassed in many circumstances.

So except for a brief time period of relative peace between the TOS and TNG eras, the Federation has had to stay on it's toes to stay alive.
-Mike