Hirogen

[Mr. Oragahn]

I recently attempted (and failed) starting a versus at SBC pitting the Jaffa of Stargate against the Hirogen of Trek, with some Predators in the middle for good measure. It appears I didn't know much about the Hirogen, I confess, and it needed an edit. The thread didn't even reach past 40 posts. :(

Still, I'm wondering how much you guys know about this race, how cool or stupid you think they look, and how you would position on the overall power board in the Trek version of the Milky Way.
And eventually, tell me if you'd like to see more of them.

[Mike DiCenso]

The Hirogen are essentially Predator knock-offs. In general the Hirogen show a fairly advanced technology level, but are far too fractionalized as a society now to make use of it in order to take over territory, and run a a conventional empire as some factions do in Trek and other franchise 'verses. Based on the massive subspace relay network Voyager encountered in "A Message in a Bottle", the Hirogen possibly once possessed a rather large chunk of territory in the Delta and possibly Beta Quadrants of the Milky Way. Unlike the Predators, the Hirogen no longer seem to have or care about a homeworld or planet-based colonies of any kind, prefering intstead a nomadic existance. It is this nomadic lifestyle that seems to help prevent any serious organization of the species, and reinforces their current hunter philosophy. Whatever drove the Hirogen to their current state is unknown, but they still possess a great deal of technology from their earlier, more civilized days. If the boasting of the one Hirogen from "Prey" can believed, their suits not only merely provide internal life support, but also may protect them from enviroments as hostile as the surface of a neutron star. Their weapons demonstrated the ability to deal significant injury to a Species 8472 ship and it's pilot without the benefit of any kind of Borg nanoprobes. Unlike Predators, the Hirogen do not either possess, or care to make use of cloaking technology. Their ships appear to be fast enough and strong enough to at least be a match for anything up to a single S8472 ship.

Their physiology places them well above most humans in size and strength, very likely on the level of a Predator, so in hand-to-hand combat, Jaffa would not likely do very well against them, even with a Goa'uld symbiote to enhance their abilities. Unlike a Predator, a Hirogen's inate senses are not limited to the infrared spectrum, so many of the tricks that work on a Predator will not work on a Hirogen.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

Curious. It was said, in the SBC thread, that the Hirogen did have cloaking tech.

In a way, though, I suppose it's better for everyone that the Hirogen don't try to re-establish any kind of Empire atm.

[Mike DiCenso]

The Hirogen now have Federation holographic technology, so that might be a possibilty for a form of cloaking, like the Romulans did with their drone ships in the 2150's. However we have not seen this sort of thing outside the Hirogen using holo tech for simulated hunts, and emitters on ships to make them look like something bigger than they are.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

So it's not a tech that is carried by each soldier, but actually requires a large installation, right?

[Cocytus]

If the boasting of the one Hirogen from "Prey" can believed, their suits not only merely provide internal life support, but also may protect them from enviroments as hostile as the surface of a neutron star.

Really? I need to watch that episode again. Such a claim seems mere hyperbole to me, but the suits were at least sufficient to protect them against the hostile surface of a class Y planet in "Flesh and Blood."

So it's not a tech that is carried by each soldier, but actually requires a large installation, right?

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbna ... =75&page=2
http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/thumbna ... =75&page=4

You can see the station on the viewscreen, and the interior, or at least a part of it. It's hard to tell just how large the installation is, but there were apparently 44 hunters on it, and given that their ships are frequently manned by no more than two, 44 would suggest a sizable facility.

[Khas]

If the boasting of the one Hirogen from "Prey" can believed, their suits not only merely provide internal life support, but also may protect them from enviroments as hostile as the surface of a neutron star.

Really? I need to watch that episode again. Such a claim seems mere hyperbole to me, but the suits were at least sufficient to protect them against the hostile surface of a class Y planet in "Flesh and Blood."

Actually, it goes beyond that. The Hirogen in question said he was able to "chase a silicon-based life-form through the neutronium mantle of a collapsed star." That is some tough armor!

[Mr. Oragahn]

Actually, it goes beyond that. The Hirogen in question said he was able to "chase a silicon-based life-form through the neutronium mantle of a collapsed star." That is some tough armor!

Sounds like gibberish. How do you get a neutronium mantle at all if it's not technobabble neutronium?

[Mike DiCenso]

So it's not a tech that is carried by each soldier, but actually requires a large installation, right?

You can see the station on the viewscreen, and the interior, or at least a part of it. It's hard to tell just how large the installation is, but there were apparently 44 hunters on it, and given that their ships are frequently manned by no more than two, 44 would suggest a sizable facility.

Um, not quite. There is also the Hirogen probe as seen in "Flesh and Blood" that was modified to project a hologram and false sensor data to make it look like another, much bigger ship. Remember that the station is large and all because it has to provide a big VR enviroment for the Hirogen to hunt in, but the holo emitters are small enough that they can at least be mounted on something a probe that is at most about the size of a shuttlecraft.
-Mike

[Mike DiCenso]

Actually, it goes beyond that. The Hirogen in question said he was able to "chase a silicon-based life-form through the neutronium mantle of a collapsed star." That is some tough armor!

Sounds like gibberish. How do you get a neutronium mantle at all if it's not technobabble neutronium?

Something like that description is possible, at least how we currently understand neutron star structure:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Neutr ... ection.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Neutr ... ucture.JPG

Mantle can simply refer to the liquid portions of the star.
-Mike

[Khas]

Actually, it goes beyond that. The Hirogen in question said he was able to "chase a silicon-based life-form through the neutronium mantle of a collapsed star." That is some tough armor!

Sounds like gibberish. How do you get a neutronium mantle at all if it's not technobabble neutronium?

Actually, real life neutron stars are pretty similar in structure to planets. They have a "crust" of electrons and iron and silicon nuclei, followed by a neutron fluid mantle, which pretty much fits theories about neutronium.

[Praeothmin]

This sounds more like boasting the an actual armor capacity.
Come on... The mantle of a Neutron Star?
What kind of gravity and pressures are we talking about here?
No way their armor can stand this...

[Mr. Oragahn]

Well, you know the ship already has to be capable of withstanding the impact into the crust, and overcome a gravity of 2e12 m/², with e9 tonnes per milliliter.
Mike and Khas, for some reason I was stuck with the idea that the crust was still a fluid. Probably a remnant from the last layman paper I read that talked about an all fluid neutron star.

[Mike DiCenso]

I'm inclined to believe that this particular Hirogen, while his description of a neutron star's structure is technically correct, he was really just exaggerating to make himself look more awesome a hunter than he really was. On the other hand, maybe his suit is a special leftover relic from his people's pre-nomadic hunter days that only he possesses.
-Mike

[Mith]

Well, the hunter may have been leaving something out.

Most likely he was making use of some sort of technology that repulsed the gravity--otherwise he would have been crushed to something resembling a very flat smear. Given that his people are advanced enough to control small black holes, I don't think this is all that much of a stretch--especially if his ship was nearby and projecting some sort of anti-gravity field to reduce the effects of the star.

What I think the Hirogen was refering to was more likely the heat (wait, are Neutron stars hot?) or other environmental issues. Otherwise, if we consider that just one suit of armor could do that, their hand guns would literally be able to turn Voyager into swiss cheese.