Then you comment on the things you agree with and on the things you disagree with.Perhaps the reason no one else came in the thread is because no one feels there's anything else to be said.
Or they are feeling that this is a sensitive subject, and perhaps know that, since they agree partially with both sides, they could only fuel the flames more by commenting.
Silence is not the answer.
If WILGA would be making the laws, that would not be possible for me.I did say, a few times at least, that you are free to live as you will, that you have every right to live as you feel yourself to be, that is a woman.
I'm not going to dig trough his rather repetitive posts, but here is what i took asCould you, Serafina, quote the things he wrote that indicate, to you, willingness for segregation?
evidence for him advocating segregation:
-he advocated a system like it exists for the indian Hjira - who are not recognized as woman and have next-to no legal rights.
-He advocates the creation of a third gender for transsexual people. That would practically bar them from being recognized according to their actual gender, and would separate them from it.
Both are, effectively, segregation policies.
And did i ever argue against that segregation?Point 1: there already exist (valid, IMO) segregation based on sex: separate changing rooms and restrooms for men and women. Most women would never agree to have to change in front of a man, or to have men change in the same room as they do, and most men feel the same way, and it is their right to feel that way.
How do you think they would feel if we forced women to change in the same room as a man (even one who lives and feels as a woman?).
They would say we deprive them of their right to intimacy, of their right not to show their bodies to men they do not know, or to be forced to see bodies of men they do not know.
Laws are made according to what is good for the majority of the population (there will always be malcontents, with reason in some cases, without in others), and the truth is the majority of the population is separated in two "genetic" genders: male and female.
What you call segregation towards you or other Transsexuals is also a violation of the rights of women not to bare themselves in the presence of a physical male.
Should we impose your rights to the detriment of theirs?
Yes, i did - because transsexual people have to be allowed to cross that line, else you deny them recognition.
So, where is the line? It depends on what we are talking about.
In bathrooms, you don't actually see a thing, so it's not much of an issue.
In changing rooms, a transwoman could simply already wear the lower part of her swimming clothes (in fact, i did that most of my life anyway). No need to establish it by law, until it get's out of hand all the time.
For hospital wards, there is not much of a difference again - you don't see peoples genitalia all the time after all. No need for a law unless it is a problem all the time.
Prisons - yeah, seperate all you want for pre-OP women, i can understand why this is sensitive. Same goes for other protected rooms.
For a lawyer, it is astonishing that he does not realize that there doesn't have to be a law for everything and that many things can be handled on a case-to-case basis quite well.
My problem with WILBA is that he advocates this segregation REGARDLESS of the actual circumstances - even Post-OP, he still want's to treat a transwoman completely like a man.
This is simply unacceptable, since it prevents transsexual people from ever living according to their gender.
Yes, it does not change my biological sex (tough transitioning arguably blurs the borders quite a lot - after i am finished, i will effectively be a infertile woman in all but genetics).While you may be a woman in mind and spirit, if you were born a male (XY gonosomes, penis, testicles, no womb or ovaries), then genetically you are a man.
That you feel you are a woman still doesn't change that.
Again, no one has the right to force you to live as a man since you are a woman in mind and spirit, but there are cases where your genetic and physical "statuses" will be taken into account.
But there is more than just biological sex, and the rest is arguably much more important.
WILBA effectively reduces me to my biological sex, a way of thinking that is generally unacceptable.
The vagionplasty and the "removal" of my genitalia are actually the same operation - most of the material gets re-used, which means that i use the same nerves, can get wet etc.Did you have the whole operation (removal of penis and testicules, breast implants to look as a woman, and vaginoplasty) done to you (can't remember if it's been mentioned or not)?
And no, i did not have it, it's propably going to happen next year.
I won't actually need breast implants (few transwomen NEED them), i have already grown natural breasts (A-cup right now, going to be more).
It's mostly a matter of procedure - it's step by step, and i'm just not at that step yet.If not, is it because of monetary reasons, or other reasons?
Luckily, insurance covers the whole procedure in Germany.
Actually, no, you seem to be quite reasonable.I realize a lot of what I say will not make you happy, and if my beliefs in your eyes make a bigot, then so be it.
Just contemplate that it is necessary to allow transsexual people to live according to their gender to allow them to be happy.
Focusing on their sex prevents that, and is generally rude and improvident.
Next post:
Addressed, see above. Compromise are quite easy.The biological definition has no bearing on how you should be treated, but in certain specific social aspects, such as locker rooms in gyms, it is, very much so, as I explained in my previous post.
Exactly.It definitely wouldn't for a posp-op Transsexual, because then only her genome would know the "original genetic gender"…
Problem is, WILBA advocates that that should still matter - who the f... cares about ones genome?
Next post:
Actually, if they exist, i suspect that many transwomen would take them anyway, or cabins if possible.Sure, but the old "Men" and "Woman" rooms remain, and by "forcing" Transsexuals to go in the "Family changing rooms", would that not also be segregation and bigotry?
Because while you do not force, say Serafina because she is the only Transsexual I know, Serafina to change in the "Men"'s room, you are still not allowing her, per her position, to change in the woman's room.
This is why this entire discussion is so volatile.
There are so many grey areas, while both WILGA and Serafina argue for black and white positions, from what I've read...
WILBA seems to think that you have to fix everything with law, when it is in fact not really possible in such cases.
Why force someone to do something he or she is likely to do anyway?