Where is the thermal exhaust port on the Death Star?

[Dragoon]

As you can see, I know war movies like the back of my hand...
*looks down*
Hey, where's my hand?...

:)

*hands over a bionic hand to Praeothmin*

There ya go.

[AnonymousRedShirtEnsign]

I remember that mission from Secret Weapons Over Normandy, which I think was a Lucas Arts game. It stopped Germany from producing hard water and making an A-bomb right?

[Gandalf]

I remember that mission from Secret Weapons Over Normandy, which I think was a Lucas Arts game. It stopped Germany from producing hard water and making an A-bomb right?

From the looks of the Wikipedia article posted earlier it was a mission to shut down electricity production.

[Jedi Master Spock]

I remember that mission from Secret Weapons Over Normandy, which I think was a Lucas Arts game. It stopped Germany from producing hard water and making an A-bomb right?

I hope you mean heavy water, not hard water. "Hard" simply refers to the mineral content.

Well, they were under fire from the turrets when they were near the surface, but the fact that the trench turrets seemd more numerous is probably due to the fact that they were all shooting in the same direction...

The novelization indicates that the Death Star defense crews were caught with their pants down and didn't figure out what was going on until about the time that the Rebel fighters entered the trench. That would explain the increase in apparent volume of fire.

[Mr. Oragahn]

I think that torpedoes were programmed to turn downward after being fired and then mantain the trajectory. The only thing pilots needed to do was to fire them at the precise moment, not too late, and not too early, so they would be able to fit into the exhaust port.

If the torpedoes were programmed to turn downward after being fired and then mantain the trajectory, the pilots would have to fire the torpedos at an exact poistion in relation to the thermal exhaust port. Otherwise the torpedos would have hit only the surface around it.

Well, wouldn't that actually be why the first two torpedoes missed the shaft?
If it was just a matter of firing them and let sensors do the rest, all that buzz about precise timing and targetting would have been superfluous, if the projectiles could adjust their trajectory almost automatically.

Then they probably went for programmed courses because there's the risk that torpedoes sensors could have been jammed, making the task simply impossible.

But one has to consider the velocity with which the fighters flew above the ground. And the target was only 2 meters wide. The pilots would only have a split second to fire their torpedos.

That would be very difficult if not impossible for an human being.

It would be by far easier to fire that torpedo from above the thermal exhaust port in a direct approach in line with the shaft.

Well, wasn't the impossibility of that shot mentioned in the very movie? :)

And the reason why they weren't firing torpedoes from abocve exhaust port had something to do with the anti-aircraft fire.

Well, I'm not entirely convinced myself, but, it is some kind of explanation :)

StarWars tactics. Why have a bomber torpedoe spam the shaft from above, at full acceleration, instead of getting the pleasure to enjoy some superb cinematic trench run?
Why have the airspeeders attack the walkers face to face on Hoth?
At Yavin, they had like 15 minutes to kill, and an audience to please. The Princess was there watching. Someone had to earn those shiny medals.

Just restating what has been said before, the "antifighter fire" is not a really good argument considering that no fighter was engaged before they got dramatically close to the surface of the battlestation. Plus those cannons proved being particularily lousy for point defense, and were lucky to shoot down fighters flying in straight line over the horizon, at near subsonic speeds.
They couldn't even provide a decent barrage inside the trench, and only the TIEs on the rebels' tail started to be a real menace.

The in universe answer is that they would have been exposed to an entire hemisphere's worth of defensive fire from the Death Star while making the attack. The out of universe answer is that George Lucas wanted to recreate the Dambuster run.

The out of universe answer is irrelevant.

Your in universe answer is not convincing.

The fighters have approached the death star and not one single turbo laser has fired until the fighter have almost tangent to the surface.

Every time, there is a fighter shown in a higher altitude above the surface, there are no turbo laser bolts.

Only when the fighters were near the surface, there was turbo laser bolts to be seen.

It seems, that an altitude of some kilometers is enough to be out of range of the turbo lasers.

If the thermal exhaust port was on the bottom of the trench, they could have dived in on it and fired their torpedos at an altitude of some kilometers, where they would still be out of range of the turbo lasers.

I think, I can expect, that a torpedo of such an modern civilisation would be able to hit a two meters wide target when fired from 10 kilometers away but in a straight line from direct above. That is not an overly difficult task.

Especially since if fired from above, several km away, the torpedoes would have plenty of time to adjust their trajectory.
Above all, without any valid defense grid to shoot down those projectiles, none of them would be intercepted before impact.

Then we have to remember that first, the shaft was said to be protected by a ray shield, right?
Whatever that means, either we have to reconsider the EU's idea that this means it's only worth against "lasers", or that something else would block or divert solids.

Secondly, the DS' own main shield didn't forbid the fighters from getting close, but still disturbed their controls for some time. However, the battle between the TIE fighters and rebel fighters (notably since the additions due to the Special Edition) shows that there's plenty of room between said supershield's layer and the surface to fly unaffected, and that's plenty of room to fire a barrage of torpedoes, and even more for said torpedoes to properly approach the shaft.

Maybe the real problem could have been about an hypothetical exhaust at anytime, toasting any projectile headed straight for the shaft?
But, well, that's a lousy explanation.

An explanation about the trench run may be that it's easier for jammed sensors to still pick some relevant information about a ship's position relative to the battlestation, when you're navigating inside a linear and tight trench of defined dimensions. Laser sensors could pick up some relatively reliable information, with "ray tracing" bouncing off the close walls. However, those same sensors might have a hard time trying to tell you where your ship exactly is when you're floating somewhere like kilometers above the surface and that you have to eyeball the position of your target.

[Who is like God arbour]

However, those same sensors might have a hard time trying to tell you where your ship exactly is when you're floating somewhere like kilometers above the surface and that you have to eyeball the position of your target.

I'm not convinced:

The rebels have had the construction plan of the death star.

An optical sensor or a camera, which match the takes of distinctive points of reference with these plan should be enough for an on-board-computer of a fighter to calculate the exact position in relation to the death star.

And some kilometers altitude should not be too high to spot such points of references.

It is very hard to impossible to jam such passiv sensors.

And if it is commonly to jam active sensors in a battle, one has to be stupid to not use passiv sensors - at least as substitute for active sensors while these are jammed.

[AnonymousRedShirtEnsign]

You mean the plans that show the super laser dish in the wrong spot ;)

[Mr. Oragahn]

You mean the plans that show the super laser dish in the wrong spot ;)

Yes. Those plans.

Which is an element which can be arguably used against the preprogrammed course theory as well.

That said, what is really lacking is a solid reason why they couldn't approach the shaft directly, come in fast, launch their torpedoes and bye bye.

[Mike DiCenso]

You know, of all the things to be changed in the SE and DVD versions of the OT, why couldn't the Death Star plans seen in the Rebel briefing have been changed to make it more accurate?
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

You know, of all the things to be changed in the SE and DVD versions of the OT, why couldn't the Death Star plans seen in the Rebel briefing have been changed to make it more accurate?
-Mike

Because Lucas is fond of Pong's graphics, and wouldn't accept such an heresy towards his youth's gaming love.

[Kazeite]

I'm fairly certain there is, or will be a fan edit which makes those displays accurate :)

[Mr. Oragahn]

Well, when you think about it, all modern graphics have all sort of funky craps added for eye candy.

The old ones in ANH have the advantage that they're damn concise and clear, direct, and you get the point.
It lacks definition, the traits are quite thick, and there aren't colors, but if I had to choose between that and the new age graphics you see in about every scifi film and TV show, tactically, and to be sure that everyone understood the plan, I think I'd go with the minimalist display.

[Praeothmin]

I think I'd go with the minimalist display.

Except that minimalist displays sometimes lack very important information, like the location of the trench guns, for example, whereas the most complete plan has all the physical obstacles you may encounter, which allows you to be better prepared.

[Who is like God arbour]

That said, what is really lacking is a solid reason why they couldn't approach the shaft directly, come in fast, launch their torpedoes and bye bye.

That is the reason, why I think, that the thermal exhaust port was not on the bottom of the trench but on the wall at the end of the trench.

Only then, I can see a reason to fly through the trench. It would be easier to hit, when one can fire in a straight line.

And it would give the existence of this trench a use. The trench would be the necessary space for an exhaust out of this thermal exhaust port. Why else should there be a trench to it?

The question would be too, why someone would built-in a shaft from the surface of the death star direct down to its core? That seems a bit silly to me. I mean, that is downright an invitation to attack at this point. There would be no super computer necessary to find this weakness. It wouldn't be that stupid, if the exhaust port is at the wall and not that easily reachable from above.



But the important question is, is this confirmable with the movie or the novel. Or is there an evidence, that the thermal exhaust port can't be at the wall and has to be at the bottom of the trench?

As I have said, the target computer (PDVD_035 - PDVD_047) and the first part of the briefing (PDVD_048 - PDVD_058) seems to indicate, that it is on the wall at the end of the trench.

But in the second part of the briefing (PDVD_059 - PDVD_066), there is a simplified animation, in which a fighter "drops" a bomb/torpedo to the bottom of the trench and it goes down to the reactor core.

That seems to be contradictory.

But the animation may be too simplified. After all, in it, the fighter drops its bomb/torpedo only and is faster as it. The fighter is in the animation out of the trench before the bomb/torpedo has reached the thermal exhaust port. But when Luke has fired his torpedos, it is to be seen, that these outrun the fighter and fly straight ahead and don't drop to the bottom (PDVD_000 - PDVD_020). The same is to be seen, when Red Leader has fired his torpedos. For this, it seems, that the animation is not useful to prove something.

In the scene, in which Lukes torpedos are fired off, one can see the thermal exhaust port. (PDVD_021 - PDVD_034) But I think, it is not cognizable, where it is. The part takes up the whole screen. It could be a wall at the end of the trench or the bottom of the trench.

The flight paths of the torpedos seems to bend at the exhaust port (PDVD_021 - PDVD_034). But does that mean, that the torpedos have flown to this point parallel to the bottom to change abrupt their courses at 90° downwards? Or could it be a course correction since the torpedos was fired of on a parallel course to each other and have to get nearer to fit both in the shaft of the thermal exhaust port?

[Dragoon]

Ah ha! Your picture, PDVD_058, gives us our answer. Ir seems that the port faces upwards, but is on a raised platform.