ST-v-SW Cloaking-Devices

[KirkSkyWalker]

According to SW, we know that no ship the size of the Falcon has a cloaking-device.
As pointed out on ST-v-SW.net , however, the Romulan shuttle is smaller than the Falcon, and has a perfect cloak.

Also we have to consider that the Federation has perfected phase-cloak technology-- i.e. they could simply fly any ship inside the Death Star or anything else.

[Lucky]

In t-canon we see that they use magnetic, thermal, and visual sensors to target ships.

The cloak we see made visual sensors worthless, and made magnetic, thermal sensors near useless at knife fighting distances.

Not bad by real world standards, but trek has moved well beyond simple light speed electron magnetic sensors.

[Mike DiCenso]

Until the CGI TCW episode episode "Cat and Mouse" showed us a cloaking device and how it operates, only the lower C-canon had any mention of them, and even then they were special technology that not many had access to. See this thread here for more
-Mike

[KirkSkyWalker]

Of course, TCW is EU.

[KirkSkyWalker]

In t-canon we see that they use magnetic, thermal, and visual sensors to target ships.

The cloak we see made visual sensors worthless, and made magnetic, thermal sensors near useless at knife fighting distances.

Not bad by real world standards, but trek has moved well beyond simple light speed electron magnetic sensors.

Phase-cloaking makes EVERYTHING obsolete.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

In t-canon we see that they use magnetic, thermal, and visual sensors to target ships.

The cloak we see made visual sensors worthless, and made magnetic, thermal sensors near useless at knife fighting distances.

Not bad by real world standards, but trek has moved well beyond simple light speed electron magnetic sensors.

Phase-cloaking makes EVERYTHING obsolete.

I thought it could be detected and nuetralised?.

It certainly was when ro laren and la forge got phase cloaked, some sort of sweep data was doing decloaked them. He even detected where they had been as they left behind some sort of radiation that was why the sweeps were done in the first place.

[Mike DiCenso]

You are presuming that the Romulan phase cloak and the Federation one operate on the same methods. The Federation one seems to be nigh-undetectable, and the Romulan one gave off chroniton field phenomena from objects that were phased and signficantly interacting with non-phased objects. Other races routinely used them, such as the Voth and Srivani. But it took Seven's Borg implant in modified form to detect the Srivani scientists, and carelessness on two Voth scientists part to be detected.
-Mike

[KirkSkyWalker]

You are presuming that the Romulan phase cloak and the Federation one operate on the same methods. The Federation one seems to be nigh-undetectable, and the Romulan one gave off chroniton field phenomena from objects that were phased and signficantly interacting with non-phased objects. Other races routinely used them, such as the Voth and Srivani. But it took Seven's Borg implant in modified form to detect the Srivani scientists, and carelessness on two Voth scientists part to be detected.
-Mike

The Romulan device was a phase-shifting transporter, which gave evience that they were working on a phase-cloak. However there's a universe of difference between an inversely-phased person walking around, and a cloaked ship that's inversely phased!
That's like comparing a normally-cloaked ship to a person walking around, who's likewise going to spread all kinds of particles from photons to dandruff, since people can't control these things like a cloaking-device can.

As for a phase-cloaked ship against SW technology, I have just 2 words: "LATER, VADER!"

[Mr. Oragahn]

Cloaking Fields

A fully-operational cloaking device has always been the ultimate dream of Naval commanders since before the most primitive sensors were developed. The idea of cloaking or hiding a vessel from either visual or sensor pickup has been a goal of everyone who designs space vehicles. Unfortunately, as newer and more sophisticated sensor systems were developed, true "cloaking" became more difficult.
Recently, the Empire's highly funded and very controversial research into sensor cloaking paid off. A multi-talented team of scientists and engineers were collected to begin final construction
on a working cloaking device. Many rumors have been circulated concerning cloaking fields and their existence. Some have come from the Empire in an attempt to frighten and confuse those who would test its abilities. Others have come from those so frightened, permitting the disinformation to expand. In fact, it was determined that a singular breakthrough in cloaking technology was highly unlikely, and the Empire has pursued a combined approach ever since.
The current test model is a device comprised of a number of inter-related systems and technologies, specifically designed to provide total protection. The "cape," as the complete system is referred to, is a double-blind device. This demeans the protection from sensor transmissions works both ways. The cloaking field obscures all types of electromagnetic sensors by absorbing the beams
instead of reflecting them. Since most sensor radiation never returns to the originating source but usually disappears into the void of space, the protected vessel is effectively cloaked. The
field protects against highly limited EPRs (electrophoto receptors), insensitive FSTs (full spectrum transceivers), and computerized LFIs (lifeform indicators).
A cloaked vessel is virtually immune to DER (dedicated energy receptor) scanning by all but the most powerful systems manned by the most expert technicians. DERs can only locate cloaked vessels by picking up ion engine heat. The Empire has developed a method for successfully baffling this heat via another phase of this project, and this phase is currently being studied for other military applications.
Cloaking fields, as they are developing now, cannot protect against CGTs (crystal gravitational traps) since the mass of the protected vessel is not affected by the field. As most of these expensive sensors are Imperial property, the need for mass baffling seems unnecessary. The main drawback to the cloaking field project is that the cloak works both ways. A cloaked vessel cannot use its sensors either, as the field absorbs the beams before they can register any information. These ships would be blind in space, as well as invisible.
With these problems in mind, DMR decided to narrow the cloaking project's goals. Under the new scheme, a vessel with a specific search-and-destroy or deep-space patrol mission would be equipped with the new technology. This ship would use visual navigation in realspace and minimum sensors when in hyperspace. As combat would remain a low priority of this type of mission, the need for extensive computerized weapons systems which rely on sensor feedback would be eliminated.
As more details and reports are forthcoming, they will be passed along to the Advisory Committee.

This does not include the rare cloaking systems as mounted on Darth Maul's Sith Infiltrator, using the stygium crystals.
A lightsabre using a stygium crystal would apparently emit light in the UV range.
The sources of stygium were surprisingly small, and even the stygium cloaks, the best ones which don't suffer from double blindedness, would be detected by CGTs, looking for blips in gravity fields basically.

[KirkSkyWalker]

So would a cloaked ship be visible, but simply not register on the sensors?
For example when Han Solo buzzes the Star Destroyer and simply uses the trick of landing on it, they say that it disappeared from their sensors; and Admiral Piett says "No ship that small has a cloaking-device."

This would be similar to stealth-planes; i.e. they are obviously visible, however they simply don't show up on radar etc.

[Lucky]

So would a cloaked ship be visible, but simply not register on the sensors?
For example when Han Solo buzzes the Star Destroyer and simply uses the trick of landing on it, they say that it disappeared from their sensors; and Admiral Piett says "No ship that small has a cloaking-device."

This would be similar to stealth-planes; i.e. they are obviously visible, however they simply don't show up on radar etc.

They couldn't tell the Falcon from asteroids when the Falcon had it's ion engines pointed at them as I recall.

[KirkSkyWalker]

They couldn't tell the Falcon from asteroids when the Falcon had it's ion engines pointed at them as I recall.

There was never anything stated about that; the TIE-fighters simply couldn't fly for crap.
If anything, ion-engines would give you away, cloak or no cloak-- just like in ST6, i.e. "the thing's got to have a tail-pipe!"

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

The comment after the falcon disapeared sums up the SW ability to see through cloaks....

NOPE.

If the SD had been able to track ships through cloaks he would have mentioned it but instead he showed incredulity after the ship disapeared that a ship that small would have one.

[KirkSkyWalker]

The comment after the falcon disapeared sums up the SW ability to see through cloaks....

It depends on how you define "see through."
In Star Trek, the cloaks render the ship 100% invisible to sensors or vision alike.

In SW, the cloaks seem to simply absorb sensor-beams so that there's no blips, but the ship's still visible.

Again, when Han landed the Falcon on the SD, they didn't see it vanish into thin air, it just disappeared off of their scans. Han knew that the SD-scanners had blind-spots within a certain range of the ship, where one could hide; but apparently Piett didn't know. If he did, he could have just turned the ship's cameras onto them, and saw the Falcon sitting there on the hull.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

The comment after the falcon disapeared sums up the SW ability to see through cloaks....

It depends on how you define "see through."
In Star Trek, the cloaks render the ship 100% invisible to sensors or vision alike.

In SW, the cloaks seem to simply absorb sensor-beams so that there's no blips, but the ship's still visible.

Again, when Han landed the Falcon on the SD, they didn't see it vanish into thin air, it just disappeared off of their scans. Han knew that the SD-scanners had blind-spots within a certain range of the ship, where one could hide; but apparently Piett didn't know. If he did, he could have just turned the ship's cameras onto them, and saw the Falcon sitting there on the hull.

If they had the ability to detect cloaked ships his reply would have been summat like "switch to anticloaking sensors" or "somebody look out a freaking window for it or Vaders gonna shrink my collar size" or words to that effect.

He was obviously uaware of the blind spot as well but his initial reaction to the ship disapearing was to think it could only be a cloak and then mention that a ship that size should not have one.