^_^How to rationalize the ICS stats?^_^

[Mr. Oragahn]

they are certainly not as "blasty" as detonation weapons would.

How do you figure this?
Every Blaster bolt that hits something creates an explosion, even when hitting a "soft" target (watch the Cell Block fight, between 2:30 and 3:00, when guards are hit, you see a small explosion like when a hard target is hit)...
While the explosion is smaller then when they fired on the automated defenses, we can rationalize it as saying the humans didn't have any energy couplings running through them, adding to the explosive effect...

Err sorry. The detonation weapons puts all of its energy primarily into the high speed reaction.
What I mean is that the typical SW bolt does not, although it does have a detonation component. It's that part of it is bound to be immediately transfer as "waste" heat which will not heat material fast enough to create a powerful blast.
It's quite complicated, as we seem to have the signs of two types of weapons, the thermal weapons which are not known for being explosive, and the strictly explosive charges, which just don't do melting at all, as they break matter with the expansion of gases at speeds greater than 2 km/s.

For example, we see that the effects in atmosphere are indicative of a high compression of air and vaporization of water upon impact: they produce very bright red flames (high temperature produced by a fast shockwave through air) and compact white balls of energy (vaporization of surrounding water in the air) before fully blossoming and disappearing.
There also is a flash in general, numerous sparkles and grey-white smoke. That would fit with a high thermal reaction.

The flash can be likened to an explosive without problem, but can also fit with simple high heat transfer to the material.
The grey-white smoke fits with the high speed of reaction.
The sparkles are something else entirely.
I can't really imagine that you could have such dense and slowly expanding clouds of sparkles with a strict explosive blast. It's the effect you expect with a plasma torch.
You need to vaporize, or at least melt material at high temperatures for that.
So part of the it has to be a detonation, but it couldn't be a perfect detonation since part of the bolt definitely transfers heat and doesn't blow the glowing gouts of material away faster than the eye can see.
This is a bit problematic. What looks like a detonation would be explained by vaporization, but again wouldn't vaporization violently blow away all the sparkles produced at the rim of the impact, where the energy is not high enough to go beyond the melting range?
I figure that for this to happen, atmospheric pressure would have to act against the explosion and "win" so soon, in order to explain the slow moving of particles and else, which would mean the vaporization would be very minimal, generally just enough to chip molten armour off in order to leave holes for example.

[Lucky]

Breaking when hit with a mace is not the same as breaking because of application of heat over a duration measured in only tens of a full second. Often you'll see a bolt covering about twice its distance in one frame (at framerates of 23.9~25 fps).
And having done my own fair amount of measonry, I know that concrete won't let itself be nicely cratered. It's more of the "fuck off" nature and cracks will be more than random.

As for the metal grid, this one has always been odd. One can focus on the amount of metal vaporized, but someone else will notice that it happened right next to three people wearing no masks at all.

Do remember a few things about blaster bolts, laser bolts, and turbolaser bolts in Star wars.

1) B,L,T bolts magically tunnel into and sometimes through a target making a nice round hole. You made a nice little thread about this as I recall

2) B,L,T bolts heat the target, and in the case of human like critters burn them.

3) B,L,T bolts explode after seeming to expend a certain amount of energy.

4) while Jedi are fast, and can see the future they are not even sonic in reaction time. I seem to recall a clone trooper or two dodging blaster bolts.

Yes, but how do you rationalize them?
Or how do you rationalize the claim that there's an annihilation core there?
:(

The reactors are not running anywhere near full power, and the things don't have a full tank of gas?

Which allow them for acceleration at best in the couple hundred of gees. We've seen ships try to escape certain death in ROTJ and it was nothing that formidable.

We also hear them say something like "accelerate to attack speed" in "A New Hope".

All the supposed thousands g events happen between cuts, and off screen much like Star Trek.

Yes, there's a point, first brought by l33telboi for all I can recall, saying something along those lines. Still, you're yet to see any evidence of such accelerations beyond Saxton's fancy assumption that the whole Imperial fleet circled Endor in a flash... while completely overlooking the evolution of shadows over the moon when seen from space, which would argue for like many dozens of minutes of approach if not several hours.
Anyone can cherry pick evidence, and of course anyone can solely focus on the big ONE case, and forget ALL the more numerous small cases which are much less impressive... making the big ONE case an outlier, by definition.

It does certainly mean no one can argue those speeds for combat. I'm sure someone could find something in the EU if they looked to claim those speeds if they wanted.

Oh but they claim technobabble only to handwave the problems raised by anyone who observes Saxton's theory of true spinning lasers (some priceless nonsense).
All that supposedly with the evidence of some bolts hitting before they're actually seen hitting, notably the incident of the asteroid in TESB, or eventually Luke's hand showing a scorch mark nowhere where the beam hit.
You could shrugg it off as a VFX glitch, or you could come with a theory like some bolts's contaimned tend to bleed forward to some degree, and say that such bolts are less efficient or lose their range much quicker, and are very rare, lack precision, and that's all.

The "tracer" is the damaging part, and they move well below light speed. I have no problem with some sort of faster the the visible part invisible beam as part of a B,L,T bolt, but I don't buy that it is meant to do damage.

The visible part has to have something that will leave something that looks like smoke in it.

The Hoth asteroids seem to have been made out of something like thermite.^_^

Never seen in the movie. We even see how long it takes for these missiles to do a 180°. That's their performance, no bullshit dialing down.

They can only pull those gs in straight lines, and those sort of speeds would be very counter productive, or at least that's what someone who wanted to use the ICSs would say.^_^

Depends on the fuel. I'm yet to see that it's extremely efficient.

Since when do Star Wars powers care about being efficient? They use mechs as standard for crying out loud.

No ICS shows evidence of mass lightening mounted on missiles, assuming it's that efficient to begin with.
No, it's just silly numbers, from beginning to end.
It's an acceleration of 98 km/s².

Supposedly it's on all their space craft remember.

To the first bit you quoted, the normal missile.

well that's embarrassing. I need to stop posting just before I go to sleep.

Near massless is not massless as if only made out of photons. That said there is more flexibility in the evidence to argue that it's a blade of light than claim laser bolts are true lasers.

A light saber blade at least looks like a blaster bolt, and seems to be made of energy fields. I would assume what mass such a blade has comes from the air that might be trapped in it.

Hardly. The metric systems is used all over the place in the EU.

I seem to recall you taking part in a thread at this site that talked about two different meters, and it concerned the Death Star's size.

An Impearl standard meter matches a real world meter as I recall, but there is at least one other meter that is much larger. If there is a meter that is larger then there could be a meter that is much smaller.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Breaking when hit with a mace is not the same as breaking because of application of heat over a duration measured in only tens of a full second. Often you'll see a bolt covering about twice its distance in one frame (at framerates of 23.9~25 fps).
And having done my own fair amount of measonry, I know that concrete won't let itself be nicely cratered. It's more of the "fuck off" nature and cracks will be more than random.

As for the metal grid, this one has always been odd. One can focus on the amount of metal vaporized, but someone else will notice that it happened right next to three people wearing no masks at all.

Do remember a few things about blaster bolts, laser bolts, and turbolaser bolts in Star wars.

1) B,L,T bolts magically tunnel into and sometimes through a target making a nice round hole. You made a nice little thread about this as I recall

Yep, they seem to do so at times. It's especially noticed in TCWS. Yet it won't make a few kilojoules start blasting about half a 50 cm wide sphere of ferrocrete (tougher element than mere concrete).
You need something akin to grenades, and greandes have explosive yields hundred times greater than that, if not more.
We know where they're going with that, and it's bullshit.

Yes, but how do you rationalize them?
Or how do you rationalize the claim that there's an annihilation core there?
:(

The reactors are not running anywhere near full power, and the things don't have a full tank of gas?

This is not serious.

Which allow them for acceleration at best in the couple hundred of gees. We've seen ships try to escape certain death in ROTJ and it was nothing that formidable.

We also hear them say something like "accelerate to attack speed" in "A New Hope".

And it's a slow speed.

All the supposed thousands g events happen between cuts, and off screen much like Star Trek.

I'd like to see evidence of that. Best cases: snubfighers approaching the Death Star and ships flying away from the first Death Star. That said, when you consider how long it would take for the torpedo to reach the core located like 60 to 80 km down there, and when you observe the torpedo's speed before that, they clearly had plenty of time to flee, with tens or hundreds of gees.

Yes, there's a point, first brought by l33telboi for all I can recall, saying something along those lines. Still, you're yet to see any evidence of such accelerations beyond Saxton's fancy assumption that the whole Imperial fleet circled Endor in a flash... while completely overlooking the evolution of shadows over the moon when seen from space, which would argue for like many dozens of minutes of approach if not several hours.
Anyone can cherry pick evidence, and of course anyone can solely focus on the big ONE case, and forget ALL the more numerous small cases which are much less impressive... making the big ONE case an outlier, by definition.

It does certainly mean no one can argue those speeds for combat. I'm sure someone could find something in the EU if they looked to claim those speeds if they wanted.

And I'm sure you'd find about 99.99% elements contradicting them. For one, I've read my fair share of EU and am yet to see any evidence of that.
There's even an incident in one of KJA's books I think where Ackbar sends a semi-finished cruiser (or was it in repairs?) to ram an incoming ISD. With thousands of gees, the crew of the ISD would have clearly had enough time to dodge the not so agile newly made huge projectile.
You have the battle of whatever remained of the Katana fleet and Solo flying a dreadnought into a SD, again with no sign that it happened in a heartbeat, and yet the SD went down.
And of course you have TESB, which is pretty much the proof of a maximum deceleration applied to avoid a rather obvious collision.
I mean, I can't even believe they pull that thousand gees crap with what happened right in front of a total of billions of viewer since the early 80s.

Oh but they claim technobabble only to handwave the problems raised by anyone who observes Saxton's theory of true spinning lasers (some priceless nonsense).
All that supposedly with the evidence of some bolts hitting before they're actually seen hitting, notably the incident of the asteroid in TESB, or eventually Luke's hand showing a scorch mark nowhere where the beam hit.
You could shrugg it off as a VFX glitch, or you could come with a theory like some bolts's contaimned tend to bleed forward to some degree, and say that such bolts are less efficient or lose their range much quicker, and are very rare, lack precision, and that's all.

The "tracer" is the damaging part, and they move well below light speed. I have no problem with some sort of faster the the visible part invisible beam as part of a B,L,T bolt, but I don't buy that it is meant to do damage.

If you think it should not do damage, you're alread rejecting the ICS claim.
I guess you haven't read the complicated nonsense he provided, with laser weapons actually made to cover the distance slower than a straight laser beam, by making the beam needlessly spin on itself... supposedly to increase ranges... which we've never seen, of course.

Never seen in the movie. We even see how long it takes for these missiles to do a 180°. That's their performance, no bullshit dialing down.

They can only pull those gs in straight lines, and those sort of speeds would be very counter productive, or at least that's what someone who wanted to use the ICSs would say.^_^

Why so? If the missile can do that, never would have the Jedi fighters dodged the missiles, they'd have been on top of them right after being fired. Hell, it's so stupid that they would have damaged the fighters merely by ramming them, instead of deploying those buzz droids.
20 kg at 100 km/s that's already 100 GJ, and that's after one second of maximum acceleration. The missiles could simply trail the fighters and suddenly apply those stupid accelerations and blast the fighters... after two seconds, you have about 400 GJ of KE alone. Ah, but stupid me, the fighters have shields which can easily cope with Hiroshima level nukes.
Of course!
Those droids can cut through Hiroshima-level shields. :/

Have you heard of those who claim that Master Plo Koon's fighter didn't have its shields up when shot down by the clone pilots? :)

Depends on the fuel. I'm yet to see that it's extremely efficient.

Since when do Star Wars powers care about being efficient? They use mechs as standard for crying out loud.

If fuel is inefficient, you're not helping your argument in the slightest. ;)

No ICS shows evidence of mass lightening mounted on missiles, assuming it's that efficient to begin with.
No, it's just silly numbers, from beginning to end.
It's an acceleration of 98 km/s².

Supposedly it's on all their space craft remember.

Which are large. And no ICS even shows anything like that to exist on any ship AKAIK.

To the first bit you quoted, the normal missile.

well that's embarrassing. I need to stop posting just before I go to sleep.

Never mind.

Hardly. The metric systems is used all over the place in the EU.

I seem to recall you taking part in a thread at this site that talked about two different meters, and it concerned the Death Star's size.

Yes, the Trojan unit I think, and the Imperial Standard, which is just like Terran Metric Standard unit.
1 m here = 1 m in SW's Empire.

[Lucky]

Yep, they seem to do so at times. It's especially noticed in TCWS. Yet it won't make a few kilojoules start blasting about half a 50 cm wide sphere of ferrocrete (tougher element than mere concrete).
You need something akin to grenades, and greandes have explosive yields hundred times greater than that, if not more.
We know where they're going with that, and it's bullshit.

Why would anyone who is not being dishonest assume the crater would be anywhere as deep as it is wide?

This is not serious.

Remember how I said a ICS grade reactor running at full out put and channeling that energy around the ship would be a nifty self-destruct? I was serious.

We also know the Republic was having fuel shortages.

And it's a slow speed.

Yep, but a pro-ICS debater would claim that this was after turning off the mass lighting tech.

I'd like to see evidence of that. Best cases: snubfighers approaching the Death Star and ships flying away from the first Death Star. That said, when you consider how long it would take for the torpedo to reach the core located like 60 to 80 km down there, and when you observe the torpedo's speed before that, they clearly had plenty of time to flee, with tens or hundreds of gees.

Running numbers isn't my thing. I'm more the guy who remembers what he has read.

The events that get thousands of Gs claimed for them are very suspect at best.

And I'm sure you'd find about 99.99% elements contradicting them. For one, I've read my fair share of EU and am yet to see any evidence of that.
There's even an incident in one of KJA's books I think where Ackbar sends a semi-finished cruiser (or was it in repairs?) to ram an incoming ISD. With thousands of gees, the crew of the ISD would have clearly had enough time to dodge the not so agile newly made huge projectile.
You have the battle of whatever remained of the Katana fleet and Solo flying a dreadnought into a SD, again with no sign that it happened in a heartbeat, and yet the SD went down.
And of course you have TESB, which is pretty much the proof of a maximum deceleration applied to avoid a rather obvious collision.
I mean, I can't even believe they pull that thousand gees crap with what happened right in front of a total of billions of viewer since the early 80s.

Just keep in mind that I consider the ICS books to be S and N levels of Star Wars canon.

If someone assumes the ICS is correct in this case then they must assume such tech takes time to turn on and and get running. The system then is useless in combat then for a number of reasons.

If you think it should not do damage, you're alread rejecting the ICS claim.
I guess you haven't read the complicated nonsense he provided, with laser weapons actually made to cover the distance slower than a straight laser beam, by making the beam needlessly spin on itself... supposedly to increase ranges... which we've never seen, of course.

Just keep in mind that I consider the ICS books to be S and N levels of Star Wars canon.

The farther a laser, particle beam, plasma, or energy weapon has to travel the weaker it will become. The idea just does not work.

Why so? If the missile can do that, never would have the Jedi fighters dodged the missiles, they'd have been on top of them right after being fired. Hell, it's so stupid that they would have damaged the fighters merely by ramming them, instead of deploying those buzz droids.
20 kg at 100 km/s that's already 100 GJ, and that's after one second of maximum acceleration. The missiles could simply trail the fighters and suddenly apply those stupid accelerations and blast the fighters... after two seconds, you have about 400 GJ of KE alone. Ah, but stupid me, the fighters have shields which can easily cope with Hiroshima level nukes.
Of course!
Those droids can cut through Hiroshima-level shields. :/

The area was very crowded, and Stars Wars droids are very stupid. As much as I hate to use the X group of characters is stupid argument it is canon for CIS battle droids as I recall.

Have you heard of those who claim that Master Plo Koon's fighter didn't have its shields up when shot down by the clone pilots? :)

I think I've heard that once or twice.

Given I'm not good with names, and don't recall the scene, could you provide some context?

If fuel is inefficient, you're not helping your argument in the slightest. ;)

I thought "it" was the reaction mass being ejected at c. From everything I've seen Star Wars has efficient power generation.

Which are large. And no ICS even shows anything like that to exist on any ship AKAIK.

Fighter supposedly have the tech, but I don't recall it ever shown.

Yes, the Trojan unit I think, and the Imperial Standard, which is just like Terran Metric Standard unit.
1 m here = 1 m in SW's Empire.

If there are two very different meters then there could be more possible measurement that have the same names, but are very different from real world measurements.

It makes quantifying anything in star wars iffy.>_<

[Mike DiCenso]

The area was very crowded, and Stars Wars droids are very stupid. As much as I hate to use the X group of characters is stupid argument it is canon for CIS battle droids as I recall.

Actually, the stupidity of the CIS battle droids is a an ongoing gag in much of the early TCW series as well as movie. So this is a canon fact that they are dumb.
-Mike

[Lucky]

The area was very crowded, and Stars Wars droids are very stupid. As much as I hate to use the X group of characters is stupid argument it is canon for CIS battle droids as I recall.

Actually, the stupidity of the CIS battle droids is a an ongoing gag in much of the early TCW series as well as movie. So this is a canon fact that they are dumb.
-Mike

The sad part is the supposed smart characters aren't much smarter.>_<

[KirkSkyWalker]

I've been thinking about this, and I realized that the Episode:II ICS does not specify if the 200 Gigaton per-shot for the quad turbolaser turrets, and 6 megatons per-shot for the laser canons are the weapons out put or the weapons in-put.

Is it possible that it takes 6 megatons to shoot kilo-joule bolts, and 200 gigaton to tera-joule bolts?

Then again there is a possibility that the ton does not translate to real world explosives.

Anyone have any better ideas?

^_^We must try to rationalize all the sources to fit after all.^_^

Power input has to equal power output for all practical considerations, otherwise the difference would be absorbed by the laser itself. Likewise, it's silly to think that they'd even use the term "ton" if it didn't translate, they'd just use a nonsense-word like "500 bazoombas of explosive energy--" and then some Warsie would translate bazoombas into gigatons based on the described effects.


Of course, these above figures are absolutely absurd (as usual) in comparison to the observed effects on-screen, where it's easy to see the mistakes of the Warsies liberally misapplying words like "vaporize" e.g.when a meteor is simply shattered, as well as the size and composition of the meteor in question.
These are the type of figures which give us a DS energy-output of E+38J, when the onscreen and canonical evidence prove that it can’t be more than E+29—only a factor of one billion less.
This formula fits well, since, we can pretty much take anything the Warsies claim, and divide it by a billion—giving us the far more plausible yields of 200 tons/shot, and kilojoule bolts. Seriously, if TIE-fighters have to have solar-panels in order to power their ion-engines, as well as para-sails for Count Dooku’s escape-ship from Geonosis), then it’s rather (as in laughably) ridiculous to claim such power-stats that could easily end all life on a planet with one shot (which 200 gigatons could easily do, being an extinction-level event by any standards). Rather, the ICS1 expressly and other lit stated that all SW ships were fusion powered (other than which were solar-powered), and the observed on-screen stats were clearly more in accord with this.

[KirkSkyWalker]

The area was very crowded, and Stars Wars droids are very stupid. As much as I hate to use the X group of characters is stupid argument it is canon for CIS battle droids as I recall.

Actually, the stupidity of the CIS battle droids is a an ongoing gag in much of the early TCW series as well as movie. So this is a canon fact that they are dumb.
-Mike

The sad part is the supposed smart characters aren't much smarter.>_<

More proof that the midichlorians are dumbing them down to keep them from getting wise.

[Lucky]

Power input has to equal power output for all practical considerations, otherwise the difference would be absorbed by the laser itself.

A Balster bolt, Laser bolt, and Turbolaser bolt in Star Wars is far more then simply beams of energy. They have clear aspects to them that can only be explained by technobabble. We don't know the energy requirements to create them, or fire them.

Small craft seem to shoot kilo and mega joule weapons, but that is only in destructive capability

Likewise, it's silly to think that they'd even use the term "ton" if it didn't translate, they'd just use a nonsense-word like "500 bazoombas of explosive energy--" and then some Warsie would translate bazoombas into gigatons based on the described effects.

They would still end up with much lower numbers given until the ICS book even Saxton assumed smaller numbers as I recall.

More proof that the midichlorians are dumbing them down to keep them from getting wise.

Again with the force even giving a damn about anything anyone does. The only thing it supposedly did was create Anakin, but there is no proof for even that.

Where is it said midichlorians = The Force?

Where is it shown the Force has a will of it's own?

[Mike DiCenso]

Where is it said midichlorians = The Force?

Where is it shown the Force has a will of it's own?

It is said several times throughout the OT and PT that the Force can controls things as well has some kind of will:

BEN: Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him.

LUKE: You mean it controls your actions?

BEN: Partially. But it also obeys your command

The Force obeys and controls according to Obi-Wan in ANH.

YODA : Trained as a Jedi, you request for him?

QUI-GON : Finding him was the will of the Force...I have no doubt of that.
There is too much happening here...

MACE WINDU : Bring him before us, then.

YODA : Tested he will be.

Qui-Gon Jinn mentions the Will of the Force for the first time in the movies.

ANAKIN : Master, sir...I've been wondering...what are midi-chlorians?

QUI-GON : Midi-chlorians are a microcopic lifeform that reside within all
living cells and communicates with the Force.

ANAKIN : They live inside of me?

QUI-GON : In your cells. We are symbionts with the midi-chlorians.
ANAKIN : Symbionts?

QUI-GON : Life forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the
midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the
Force. They continually speak to you, telling you the will of the Force.

ANAKIN : They do??

QUI-GON : When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear them speaking to
you.

ANAKIN : I don't understand.

QUI-GON : With time and training, Annie...you will

The midi-chlorians are at the very least the mediator between lifeforms and the Force, and the Force here, at least according to Qui-Gon speaks it's will through them, again indicating and awareness and ability to control other beings.
-Mike

[Lucky]

Where is it said midichlorians = The Force?

Where is it shown the Force has a will of it's own?

It is said several times throughout the OT and PT that the Force can controls things as well has some kind of will:

BEN: Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him.

LUKE: You mean it controls your actions?

BEN: Partially. But it also obeys your command

The Force obeys and controls according to Obi-Wan in ANH.

YODA : Trained as a Jedi, you request for him?

QUI-GON : Finding him was the will of the Force...I have no doubt of that.
There is too much happening here...

MACE WINDU : Bring him before us, then.

YODA : Tested he will be.

Qui-Gon Jinn mentions the Will of the Force for the first time in the movies.

ANAKIN : Master, sir...I've been wondering...what are midi-chlorians?

QUI-GON : Midi-chlorians are a microcopic lifeform that reside within all
living cells and communicates with the Force.

ANAKIN : They live inside of me?

QUI-GON : In your cells. We are symbionts with the midi-chlorians.
ANAKIN : Symbionts?

QUI-GON : Life forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the
midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the
Force. They continually speak to you, telling you the will of the Force.

ANAKIN : They do??

QUI-GON : When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear them speaking to
you.

ANAKIN : I don't understand.

QUI-GON : With time and training, Annie...you will

The midi-chlorians are at the very least the mediator between lifeforms and the Force, and the Force here, at least according to Qui-Gon speaks it's will through them, again indicating and awareness and ability to control other beings.
-Mike

I don't consider what was posted as the proof I asked for, and is self contradictory.

The midi-chlorians being needed to use the force is contradicted by the ability ti take on an rnergy form.

[Praeothmin]

The Force is an energy field, so once you're dead, and your soul goes to "heaven", then you may have the capacity to travel through that energy field without the necessity to have Midichlorians...

[Mike DiCenso]

And there's another thing that's wrong about the Force. For all that the Warsies whine that the Federation is communist, they don't want to acknolwledge that when people die in the SW Galaxy, you go to become "one with the Living Force". That sounds a lot like a collective mind to me, much like the the Borg, and it is even said that only a handful of elites are able to retain individuality and consciousness after the death of the physical body. This is less a "heaven" and more of a "hell" to me.
-Mike

[Mike DiCenso]

I don't consider what was posted as the proof I asked for, and is self contradictory.

The midi-chlorians being needed to use the force is contradicted by the ability ti take on an rnergy form.

Okay, but if you won't except that extensive amount of dialog as proof, then what do you want? The ability to be a "Force Ghost" is only what a handful of Force users have ever been able to achive.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

Where is it said midichlorians = The Force?

Where is it shown the Force has a will of it's own?

It is said several times throughout the OT and PT that the Force can controls things as well has some kind of will:

BEN: Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him.

LUKE: You mean it controls your actions?

BEN: Partially. But it also obeys your command

The Force obeys and controls according to Obi-Wan in ANH.

YODA : Trained as a Jedi, you request for him?

QUI-GON : Finding him was the will of the Force...I have no doubt of that.
There is too much happening here...

MACE WINDU : Bring him before us, then.

YODA : Tested he will be.

Qui-Gon Jinn mentions the Will of the Force for the first time in the movies.

ANAKIN : Master, sir...I've been wondering...what are midi-chlorians?

QUI-GON : Midi-chlorians are a microcopic lifeform that reside within all
living cells and communicates with the Force.

ANAKIN : They live inside of me?

QUI-GON : In your cells. We are symbionts with the midi-chlorians.
ANAKIN : Symbionts?

QUI-GON : Life forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the
midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the
Force. They continually speak to you, telling you the will of the Force.

ANAKIN : They do??

QUI-GON : When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear them speaking to
you.

ANAKIN : I don't understand.

QUI-GON : With time and training, Annie...you will

The midi-chlorians are at the very least the mediator between lifeforms and the Force, and the Force here, at least according to Qui-Gon speaks it's will through them, again indicating and awareness and ability to control other beings.
-Mike

Kolorz 4 teh wIn.