What's aswst?2046 wrote:You have only posted the same ignorant claim alongside your delusional stance that I have not responded, which is so obviously false that it doesn't warrant my attention. I now simply laugh at you.StarWarsStarTrek wrote:As I expected, you outright ignore my post, going for a stupid nitpick.
Not really, no. I disagree with the state religion of a small cadre of fools, fools whom I do not suffer. What's to wonder about?Have you ever wondered why you are dislikes almost universally on spacebattles, SDN AND aswst?
I challenge darkstar to a debate
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Re: I challenge darkstar to a debate
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Re: I challenge darkstar to a debate
I suppose then given the overwhelming evidence posted by Ds
the outcome is obvious in favor of the feds in any engagement that does not involve invading the SWU for conquest
the outcome is obvious in favor of the feds in any engagement that does not involve invading the SWU for conquest
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Re: I challenge darkstar to a debate
ASVS. Forum that, among other things, deals with Star Trek vs Star Wars discussion.Post Haste wrote:What's aswst?2046 wrote:You have only posted the same ignorant claim alongside your delusional stance that I have not responded, which is so obviously false that it doesn't warrant my attention. I now simply laugh at you.StarWarsStarTrek wrote:As I expected, you outright ignore my post, going for a stupid nitpick.
Not really, no. I disagree with the state religion of a small cadre of fools, fools whom I do not suffer. What's to wonder about?Have you ever wondered why you are dislikes almost universally on spacebattles, SDN AND aswst?
http://forums.asvs.org/
And SWST is bullcrapping again. Board is squarely divided - it even has a local Trekkie counterpart to SWST, Jason, although Jason is in some things more reasonable than SWST. But wank-levels are similar - with difference that some parts of ST canon do support his wank. But that's few leaves in a forest.
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Re: I challenge darkstar to a debate
Is this your rebuttal?2046 wrote:You have only posted the same ignorant claim alongside your delusional stance that I have not responded, which is so obviously false that it doesn't warrant my attention. I now simply laugh at you.StarWarsStarTrek wrote:As I expected, you outright ignore my post, going for a stupid nitpick.
So you are saying that we should disregard the Rebel tactical display...because its icons are out of scale?
1. Numerous real life displays; GPS, tactical displays, maps, etc. enlarge and exaggerate the size of relevant elements so that you can actually see where they are instead of having to squint your eyes. Any competent designer of a tactical map would enlarge important combat elements that you would otherwise not be able to see.
2. However, the arc on Yavin in which the Rebel base and the death star are positioned against, and their relative position relative to the angle of the gas giant (and thus how long it is before the Death Star is within firing range) is the entire purpose of the existence of that tactical display. Are you arguing that the distances are inexplicably out of proportion to Yavin's arc (which is the entire reason why the tactical display exists)? Are you postulating that, although the Death Star is placed on a -pi/2 arc and the Rebel base is on a relative pi/2 arc, both are really just 10 degrees away from each other, and the Rebel tactical display just messed up with the distance for the heck of it?
3. Are you suggesting that the Rebels, with their very existence on the line in a battle so important that they later in EU based their calender system on it, would use a tactical display whose sole purpose of determining relative positioning is off by several orders of magnitude? Their main base and likely a large portion of their personnel and high command is in danger of being vaporized, and they just use a tactical display that's several orders of magnitude off?
Your "the icons are out of scale!" argument is like trying to discount a map because the dot representing New York City is too large, or discounting a map of the solar system because the asteroid belt shows hilariously large asteroids.
Not really, no. I disagree with the state religion of a small cadre of fools, fools whom I do not suffer. What's to wonder about?
"Small" cadre?
If you remain skeptical of the Death Star argument, explain this:
When the Death Star is encountered in ANH for the first time, in an epic scene, it goes from being a few pixels wide to taking up much of the screen in a few minutes. Before you claim timeskip, notice how Han, Leia, Obi Wan and Luke are in the exact same position and do not move; you would not honestly claim that they'd sit completely still for several hours in the same seats, would you?
Or when the Falcon is escaping the Death Star in ROTJ, it flies out and joins the Rebel fleet that is only a tiny blip in a matter of seconds.
When there are large sections of unopposed space, Star Wars ships can move very, very fast. Why does this matter? For one, it supports the 64 km/s^2 figure for the Death Star, which translates to 2e29 joules of energy per second, give or take a few (in order to adjust the mass to the point of which an ISD breaks even with the Enterprise, you would have to postulate the Death Star's density being less than that of air or even hydrogen). This scales down to e23 joules per second for an ISD, and it's through G canon!
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Re: I challenge darkstar to a debate
Ugh.StarWarsStarTrek wrote:Is this your rebuttal?2046 wrote:You have only posted the same ignorant claim alongside your delusional stance that I have not responded, which is so obviously false that it doesn't warrant my attention. I now simply laugh at you.StarWarsStarTrek wrote:As I expected, you outright ignore my post, going for a stupid nitpick.
So you are saying that we should disregard the Rebel tactical display...because its icons are out of scale?
I mean, kudos for at least now recognizing that a counterargument was presented, whereas before you were just falsely claiming there wasn't one. (And granted, giving kudos there makes me think of Chris Rock and his "Whatchoo want, a cookie? You supposed to!", but whatever.)
However, rather than correctly acknowledging the claim, you chose instead to simply strawman it. Thus, your shock and awe campaign against reason continues unabated.
No, child, the argument is not that the icons are out of scale.
To wit, I said:
"Put succinctly, he still claims a speed for the Death Star while ignoring all evidence that his speed is based entirely on an out-of-scale diagram that does not agree with the Imperial graphic of the same situation or the exterior visuals in the movie itself (visuals which agree far more closely with the Imperial graphic) . . . his chosen diagram was shown to be basically useless in in 2002!
Compare the Rebel diagram at 2:35 in the clip below with the exterior visual seconds later . . . literally, SWST's claim falls apart in a mere 10 seconds worth of Star Wars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvc70ptopqw"
Now yes, I did say "put succinctly", and clearly it was just succinctly enough for you to feel you could strawman it. But you are wrong.
What the video shows is the Rebel diagram putting the Death Star on the opposite side of the gas giant, whereas the exterior visual and the Imperial plot both show that the two are instead only separated by the limb of the gas giant.
In addition to the "icons out of scale" thing you claim, that kind of error makes the Rebel diagram useless as a speed or location plotting device.
I was the one explaining this concept to you during the debate-proper, kid, by reference to war tables and whatnot.1. Numerous real life displays; GPS, tactical displays, maps, etc. enlarge and exaggerate the size of relevant elements so that you can actually see where they are instead of having to squint your eyes. Any competent designer of a tactical map would enlarge important combat elements that you would otherwise not be able to see.
More later.
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Re: I challenge darkstar to a debate
The visuals contradict nothing. In what could very well be a scene cut, the X wing squadron approaches the Death Star at speeds rapid enough to go from "a small moon in the distance" to right up taking up most of the screen. What's your point?
And again, there are many sources to collaborate with the Death Star's acceleration, matching consistency:
"Some were frightening, some less so, but none were as indicative of power held in check as the four silvery starships which burst
into view above the observer. Keeping a tight formation, they exploded through humid air to vanish in seconds into the morning cloud cover far above. Sound-shadows rattled the trees moments later, in a forlorn attempt to catch up to the engines which had produced them."
"The large central view-screen was coming alive. It was no longer just the Death Star and the green moon behind it, floating isolated in space. Now the massive Imperial fleet could be seen flying in perfect, regimental formation, out from behind Endor in two behemoth flanking waves- heading to surround the Rebel fleet from both sides, like the pincers of a deadly scorpion.
And the shield barricaded the Alliance in front. They had nowhere to go." Note: the wording of the paragraph quite clearly specifies that the imperial fleet was FLYING out of Endor, it was not performing some hyperjump.
In the original Star Wars, the first appearance of the death star is from the perspective of the Falcon; the Death Star goes from being a tiny blip on the screen a few pixels wide to taking up most of the screen as a giant behemoth in a few minutes, and the main characters are in the same positions and seats as they were earlier, so you cannot claim that those minutes were really time cut to hours or days.
And again, there are many sources to collaborate with the Death Star's acceleration, matching consistency:
"Some were frightening, some less so, but none were as indicative of power held in check as the four silvery starships which burst
into view above the observer. Keeping a tight formation, they exploded through humid air to vanish in seconds into the morning cloud cover far above. Sound-shadows rattled the trees moments later, in a forlorn attempt to catch up to the engines which had produced them."
"The large central view-screen was coming alive. It was no longer just the Death Star and the green moon behind it, floating isolated in space. Now the massive Imperial fleet could be seen flying in perfect, regimental formation, out from behind Endor in two behemoth flanking waves- heading to surround the Rebel fleet from both sides, like the pincers of a deadly scorpion.
And the shield barricaded the Alliance in front. They had nowhere to go." Note: the wording of the paragraph quite clearly specifies that the imperial fleet was FLYING out of Endor, it was not performing some hyperjump.
In the original Star Wars, the first appearance of the death star is from the perspective of the Falcon; the Death Star goes from being a tiny blip on the screen a few pixels wide to taking up most of the screen as a giant behemoth in a few minutes, and the main characters are in the same positions and seats as they were earlier, so you cannot claim that those minutes were really time cut to hours or days.
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Re: I challenge darkstar to a debate
Vanishing may be referring to a short hyperjump...they exploded through humid air to vanish in seconds into the morning
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Re: I challenge darkstar to a debate
Semantics; "exploded through humid air" implies that they were physically traveling through the air, not to mention that most evidence suggests that using hyperdrive inside a planetary gravity well is either impossible or highly dangerous.Praeothmin wrote:Vanishing may be referring to a short hyperjump...they exploded through humid air to vanish in seconds into the morning
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Re: I challenge darkstar to a debate
man SWSt you are getting DESTROYED..well no more then usual but the sheer gap in experience and debating skill is overwhelming...seriously this is a kin to a kid who took boxing Classes at the Y taking on Joe Frazier in his prime
actually that's how one sided our debates go...this is more akin to a guy with some Mcdojo training taking on DC's Karate Kid or Kenshiro..my god
seriously look it's one thing to deliberately ignore and lie against your average poster but DS is very clearly on a level that you really can't breach..so seriously extent some professional courtesy
actually that's how one sided our debates go...this is more akin to a guy with some Mcdojo training taking on DC's Karate Kid or Kenshiro..my god
seriously look it's one thing to deliberately ignore and lie against your average poster but DS is very clearly on a level that you really can't breach..so seriously extent some professional courtesy
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Re: I challenge darkstar to a debate
Admiral Breetai wrote:man SWSt you are getting DESTROYED..well no more then usual but the sheer gap in experience and debating skill is overwhelming...seriously this is a kin to a kid who took boxing Classes at the Y taking on Joe Frazier in his prime
actually that's how one sided our debates go...this is more akin to a guy with some Mcdojo training taking on DC's Karate Kid or Kenshiro..my god
seriously look it's one thing to deliberately ignore and lie against your average poster but DS is very clearly on a level that you really can't breach..so seriously extent some professional courtesy
Do you have anything of substance and logic to say, and evidence to back up your claims?
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Re: I challenge darkstar to a debate
when you demand evidence it's universally after every one proved your trolling beyond a shadow of a doubt..so stop this dance it's gonna culminate with you taking a vacation againStarWarsStarTrek wrote: Do you have anything of substance and logic to say, and evidence to back up your claims?
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Re: I challenge darkstar to a debate
The comment says they are obviously faster than sound.StarWarsStarTrek wrote: "Some were frightening, some less so, but none were as indicative of power held in check as the four silvery starships which burst
into view above the observer. Keeping a tight formation, they exploded through humid air to vanish in seconds into the morning cloud cover far above. Sound-shadows rattled the trees moments later, in a forlorn attempt to catch up to the engines which had produced them."
They are already above the viewer and take "seconds" to reach the morning cloud cover and disapear (so around 2km or so).
So supersonic and traveling at a few KMS max...
Not a lot there to quantify."The large central view-screen was coming alive. It was no longer just the Death Star and the green moon behind it, floating isolated in space. Now the massive Imperial fleet could be seen flying in perfect, regimental formation, out from behind Endor in two behemoth flanking waves- heading to surround the Rebel fleet from both sides, like the pincers of a deadly scorpion.
And the shield barricaded the Alliance in front. They had nowhere to go." Note: the wording of the paragraph quite clearly specifies that the imperial fleet was FLYING out of Endor, it was not performing some hyperjump.
So?.In the original Star Wars, the first appearance of the death star is from the perspective of the Falcon; the Death Star goes from being a tiny blip on the screen a few pixels wide to taking up most of the screen as a giant behemoth in a few minutes, and the main characters are in the same positions and seats as they were earlier, so you cannot claim that those minutes were really time cut to hours or days.
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Re: I challenge darkstar to a debate
Admiral Breetai wrote:when you demand evidence it's universally after every one proved your trolling beyond a shadow of a doubt..so stop this dance it's gonna culminate with you taking a vacation againStarWarsStarTrek wrote: Do you have anything of substance and logic to say, and evidence to back up your claims?
Show me where in your post you proved beyond a shadow of doubt ANYTHING.
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Re: I challenge darkstar to a debate
It is impossible to prove ANYTHING beyond shadow of IRRATIONAL doubt. But we have already logged this thread with too much garbage, it is supposed to be between SWST and G2K, so I'm afraid that JMS will have to do little "thread cleansing" again.
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Re: I challenge darkstar to a debate
Breetai, STOP IT!Admiral Breetai wrote:man SWSt you are getting DESTROYED..well no more then usual but the sheer gap in experience and debating skill is overwhelming...seriously this is a kin to a kid who took boxing Classes at the Y taking on Joe Frazier in his prime
actually that's how one sided our debates go...this is more akin to a guy with some Mcdojo training taking on DC's Karate Kid or Kenshiro..my god
I'm fucking tired of this!
Stop antagonizing him, you're giving him all the reasons in the world to rightly claim he is being harassed...