Stupid things Trek/Wars debaters say.

[Lucky]

Well, since they don't bend all types of electromagnetic radiations, since we see them (light isn't bent), then I'd say the scene is fine as we see it, and that only the black-hole interpretation of ST shields has flaws...

The old visuals are always right even though you admitted that isn't true. What next, you'll claim plasma torpedos don't crust things?

That's great now prove it with something other then visuals which may have been solely done that way for the benefit of the viewer.

TOS: Tomorrow Is Yesterday, TNG: First Contact, Voyager: Future's End all depend on the ship being invisible, and even the ability to control how light bends so finely that they could make a shuttle look like a fighter jet.

Star Trek: Generations shows us a display that notes gravity as being used to generate the shield.

Voyager: Scorpion, we have a wormhole created with the navigational deflector.

They went to warp in Earth's lower atmosphere in either Star Trek 4 or 6.

Any time they go to warp they must move everything out of the way of the ship, or you start getting holes in the hull as stated in Enterprise.

The navigation deflector can stop a laser with no problem.

[sonofccn]

Here. As seen by Cochrane with a telescope.

[Lucky]

Here. As seen by Cochrane with a telescope.

Wasn't the ship in a state of general disrepair, the Borg working to transform the navigational deflector into a communication system, and Picard possibly having destroyed the navigational deflector?

[sonofccn]

Here. As seen by Cochrane with a telescope.

Wasn't the ship in a state of general disrepair, the Borg working to transform the navigational deflector into a communication system, and Picard possibly having destroyed the navigational deflector?

Riker and co didn't know anything was wrong, had no knowledge the Borg had come aboard, and yet planned on seeing the Enterprise with a telescope.

[Lucky]

Here. As seen by Cochrane with a telescope.

Wasn't the ship in a state of general disrepair, the Borg working to transform the navigational deflector into a communication system, and Picard possibly having destroyed the navigational deflector?

Riker and co didn't know anything was wrong, had no knowledge the Borg had come aboard, and yet planned on seeing the Enterprise with a telescope.

RIKER: Shields are down. Long-range sensors are off-line. Main power's holding

That sounds like Riker knew something was damaged, but we don't know what systems would need to be turned off to make repairs.

[sonofccn]

Here. As seen by Cochrane with a telescope.

Wasn't the ship in a state of general disrepair, the Borg working to transform the navigational deflector into a communication system, and Picard possibly having destroyed the navigational deflector?

Riker and co didn't know anything was wrong, had no knowledge the Borg had come aboard, and yet planned on seeing the Enterprise with a telescope.

RIKER: Shields are down. Long-range sensors are off-line. Main power's holding

That sounds like Riker knew something was damaged, but we don't know what systems would need to be turned off to make repairs.

TROI: Captain, what is it?
PICARD: Picard to Enterprise. Mister Worf, is everything all right up there?
WORF (on intercom): Yes sir. We are experiencing some environmental difficulties on deck sixteen but that is all.
PICARD: What kind of difficulties?
WORF (on intercom): Humidity levels have risen seventy-three percent and the temperature has jumped ten degrees in the last hour.
PICARD: Mister Data and I are returning to the ship.
WORF (on intercom): Understood.
PICARD: Number One, take charge down here.
RIKER: Aye sir.

PICARD: Thirty-nine point one degrees Celsius. ...Like a Borg ship. They knew their ship was doomed, our shields were down and somehow they transported over here without being detected. They'll assimilate the Enterprise, and then ...Earth. ...Picard to Riker. ...Enterprise to away team. ...Respond.
HAWK: Sir, the main control is being rerouted through main engineering. ...Weapons, shields, propulsion.

Sounds like the loss of shields was a momentary issue from hurtling backwards in time and things were returning to normal until the Borg started up. I see no reason why Riker would suddenly assume massive problems the moment Picard beamed up.

[KSW]

Obi-wan was talking in comparison to Sand-people, whom the Stroomtroopers had presented as the attackers on the Jawa's transport. Remember in the beginning of Ep. IV, one Sand-person wants to shoot Luke's speeder, but the other one rebuffs him; obviously their weapons aren't accurate enough to hit the speeder.

I don't think it was a matter of accuracy there as much as the restraining Sand person not wanting any potential swag on the speeder being ruined in a burning wreck.
-Mike

It's still highly unlikely that Sandpeople's desert-rifles were as accurate as stormtroopers' weapons.

[KSW]

10. Imperial power is based on hypermatter not fusion (reality: it isn't)

The Death Star was 120 kilometers in diameter. Much of its interior space was devoted to systems required to maintain its massive superlaser and power plant. At the heart of the Death Star is a gigantic hypermatter reactor. Within this chamber burned a fusion reaction of prodigious proportions, fed by stellar fuel bottles lining its periphery.

One could take this to mean they incorporate a derivative of hyper-drive technology into their fusion reactors.

Still that's fusion, not some magical no-limits energy-source like the EU fancies.

[Lucky]

Here. As seen by Cochrane with a telescope.

Wasn't the ship in a state of general disrepair, the Borg working to transform the navigational deflector into a communication system, and Picard possibly having destroyed the navigational deflector?

Riker and co didn't know anything was wrong, had no knowledge the Borg had come aboard, and yet planned on seeing the Enterprise with a telescope.

RIKER: Shields are down. Long-range sensors are off-line. Main power's holding

TROI: Captain, what is it?
PICARD: Picard to Enterprise. Mister Worf, is everything all right up there?
WORF (on intercom): Yes sir. We are experiencing some environmental difficulties on deck sixteen but that is all.
PICARD: What kind of difficulties?WORF (on intercom): Humidity levels have risen seventy-three percent and the temperature has jumped ten degrees in the last hour.
PICARD: Mister Data and I are returning to the ship.
WORF (on intercom): Understood.
PICARD: Number One, take charge down here.
RIKER: Aye sir.

PICARD: Thirty-nine point one degrees Celsius. ...Like a Borg ship. They knew their ship was doomed, our shields were down and somehow they transported over here without being detected. They'll assimilate the Enterprise, and then ...Earth. ...Picard to Riker. ...Enterprise to away team. ...Respond.
HAWK: Sir, the main control is being rerouted through main engineering. ...Weapons, shields, propulsion.

Sounds like the loss of shields was a momentary issue from hurtling backwards in time and things were returning to normal until the Borg started up. I see no reason why Riker would suddenly assume massive problems the moment Picard beamed up.

The part where Riker states main power is holding implies that Main power needs repairs somewhere, or could fail soon.

Aren't long range sensors conected to the navigational deflector?
That sounds like Riker knew something was damaged, but we don't know what systems would need to be turned off to make repairs.

[Lucky]

It's still highly unlikely that Sandpeople's desert-rifles were as accurate as stormtroopers' weapons.

I was always under the impression that Sand people are better shots then clone/storm troopers, and old Ben was just making a sarcastic about how bad they are.

[Lucky]

10. Imperial power is based on hypermatter not fusion (reality: it isn't)

The Death Star was 120 kilometers in diameter. Much of its interior space was devoted to systems required to maintain its massive superlaser and power plant. At the heart of the Death Star is a gigantic hypermatter reactor. Within this chamber burned a fusion reaction of prodigious proportions, fed by stellar fuel bottles lining its periphery.

One could take this to mean they incorporate a derivative of hyper-drive technology into their fusion reactors.

Still that's fusion, not some magical no-limits energy-source like the EU fancies.

There's a lot of strange stuff about Star Wars fusion reactors to the point that they can't be fusion reactors as we know them, and Hyperdrive technology is just for all practical purposes magic.

Saying, "It's fusion so it can only have X output" is just silly. Star Wars is a work of fiction, and the setting has figurative and literal magic in the setting.

[sonofccn]

The part where Riker states main power is holding implies that Main power needs repairs somewhere, or could fail soon.

Or it is possible that main power is unaffected and that is why its holding.

Aren't long range sensors conected to the navigational deflector?

Not that I know of.

That sounds like Riker knew something was damaged, but we don't know what systems would need to be turned off to make repairs.

Except Worf had just given the ship a clean bill of health except for climate controls. There is no reason for Riker or La Forge to suspect the Enterprise would be in any inoperative state.

[Lucky]

Or it is possible that main power is unaffected and that is why its holding.

Main power's holding would imply to me that there is a chance that main power will fail, and that it is not at 100%.

Not that I know of.

Then where are the sensors? I'd think they would be a big dish with lots of power going to it, but that's just me.

Except Worf had just given the ship a clean bill of health except for climate controls. There is no reason for Riker or La Forge to suspect the Enterprise would be in any inoperative state.

I didn't see that Worf stated any damaged system was fixed. I may have missed something, but it wasn't in the quotes either of us provided. Stating the shields were down does not mean the shields are fixed.

[sonofccn]

Main power's holding would imply to me that there is a chance that main power will fail, and that it is not at 100%.

And to me Riker's commenting its holding steady as opposed to shields dropping.

Then where are the sensors? I'd think they would be a big dish with lots of power going to it, but that's just me.

I never really thought about it, your guess is as good as mine.

I didn't see that Worf stated any damaged system was fixed.

PICARD: Picard to Enterprise. Mister Worf, is everything all right up there?
WORF (on intercom): Yes sir. We are experiencing some environmental difficulties on deck sixteen but that is all.

That to me strongly suggests the Enterprise-E is not fallling apart or greviously damaged.

Stating the shields were down does not mean the shields are fixed.

Stating your shields were down instead of are down does imply the reverse. Unless you have additional evidence of shield failure past the Riker quote of course.

[Lucky]

And to me Riker's commenting its holding steady as opposed to shields dropping.

Not getting worse, and not in need of repairs are to different things. All Riker said was that main power was holding, and that implies it was damaged to me.

PICARD: Picard to Enterprise. Mister Worf, is everything all right up there?
WORF (on intercom): Yes sir. We are experiencing some environmental difficulties on deck sixteen but that is all.

That to me strongly suggests the Enterprise-E is not fallling apart or greviously damaged.

Worf's statement suggests that repairs were coming along as scheduled, and that beyond the sudden environmental controls acting wonky in a minor way. They do not show repairs to have been finished.

Your argument that the Enterprise-E was not beyond repair or getting worse is silly because the ship would have been abandoned if it was, and just because something is not getting worse does not mean it is not still being fixed.

Stating your shields were down instead of are down does imply the reverse. Unless you have additional evidence of shield failure past the Riker quote of course.

Shields aren't up at all the time. That means that they could be down for most of the movie, and still be fixed.

PICARD: Thirty-nine point one degrees Celsius. ...Like a Borg ship. They knew their ship was doomed, our shields were down and somehow they transported over here without being detected. They'll assimilate the Enterprise, and then ...Earth. ...Picard to Riker. ...Enterprise to away team. ...Respond.


Picard's statement only means that the shields of the Enterprise-E had been down when the Borg boarded the her.