Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

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Mike DiCenso
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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Mike DiCenso » Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:54 pm

StarWarsStarTrek wrote: 1. Warp drive is slllloooowwwww.
2. They are pacifistic, and have no need for giant fleets.
3. They haven't had 25,000 years to do it.
4. They have only charted out 11% of the galaxy.
5. They don't have a droid labor force.
6. They don't have access to as many planets.
Nope, not trolling. Here he keeps repeating the same damn debunked garbage over and over again.

1.) Warp drive is incredibly fast in charted territory. Over 1 million c in some cases. Which is exactly what hyperdrive does in charted territory!

2.) Pacificstic? The Federation may have gotten complacent, by they were hardly pacificstic to the point that they couldn't defend against the Romulans, Klingons, or anyone else in the Alpha quadrant, if need be. When the Dominion and Borg entered the scene, within just a few years they went to total war footing and created a thousands upon thousands strong fleet large enough to challenge those threats, and replace some horrendeous losses during that time.

3.) Two statements in the movies place the Republic at 1,000 years old, not one thousand generations. But let's go over that again. Let's assume that intersteller civilization in the GFFA is that old. Great. We know that Federation members, like the Vulcans were starfaring at least 3,000 years prior to the founding of it, and the Dominion was starfaring up to 10,000 years prior. The GFFA civilization is also very stagnant to boot, nothing really changed technologically in 30 years there, where in ST's Milky Way, things change very rapidly.

4.) 19 percent, as per Wesley in "The Dauphin". Just a year earlier, it was 11 percent, so does that mean the Federation is rapidly growing and exploring that much every year? Yikes! A nearly doubling of the charted territory, and we see the chart in "The Chase" a few years later that shows at least a whole quadrant of the Milky Way is charted, so that upped to at least 25-30 percent.

5.) So? They have replicators, hard-light hologram workforce, etc.

6.) This is actually technically true, but then again there seems to be a discrepency as to how each group counts membership and what the actual numbers are. Many planets in the Republic and later Empire are very sparsely populated, or have nothing on them at all.

This will go down as another example of why SWST got banned.
-Mike

Picard
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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Picard » Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:58 pm

Admiral Breetai wrote:
Picard wrote:And not to mention that durasteel melts in lava. There goes SW uber-resistence to DET.
wait a minute what? are you serious? This happened in the films? oh..lord wow
On Mustafar, Anakin-Kenobi fight scene.

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Picard » Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:03 pm

As for Federation being pacifists... they don't fight if they don't have to, and I really mean "have to", as in, all other possible and impossible options exhausted. But that's just TNG-era. When they see you as a threat, DS9-era Federation will force you to attack first, while TOS-era Federation will be just too happy to kick your ass.

EDIT: And that's assuming Section 31 doesn't wreck you before Federation even realizes you exist.

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Lucky » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:08 am

StarWarsStarTrek wrote: 2. They are pacifistic, and have no need for giant fleets.
Mike DiCenso wrote: 2.) Pacificstic? The Federation may have gotten complacent, by they were hardly pacificstic to the point that they couldn't defend against the Romulans, Klingons, or anyone else in the Alpha quadrant, if need be. When the Dominion and Borg entered the scene, within just a few years they went to total war footing and created a thousands upon thousands strong fleet large enough to challenge those threats, and replace some horrendeous losses during that time.
Survivors shows a Federation willing to fight anyone who threatens them, and doesn't Q make a statement to the effect that Picard is abnormally peaceful as far as Federation captains go?

We know the Enterprise-D was an even match at least for top of the line war ships of her time, and that Galaxy-class only got more powerful with upgrades later on.

Admiral Breetai
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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Admiral Breetai » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:45 am

sonofccn wrote:
Admiral Breetai wrote:so was my post ever answered? by SWSt I don't feel like sifting through all his lies and degenerate mongrel wank to get to it.
He attempted to do so here standard schtick. Took a C-canon source for the Empire's population and assumed a percentage of them must buy/own starships along with extremely dubious assumptions of the service life of said ships.
thank you for pointing this out to me

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Praeothmin
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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Praeothmin » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:56 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:6.) This is actually technically true, but then again there seems to be a discrepency as to how each group counts membership and what the actual numbers are. Many planets in the Republic and later Empire are very sparsely populated, or have nothing on them at all.
Also the SW Galaxy seems to be more densily populated than the ST one, because while it is a "modest-sized" Galaxy, the Empire as of ANH did have over 1 million systems under its control...
Much more than the Federation...

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Admiral Breetai » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:20 pm

Picard wrote:As for Federation being pacifists... they don't fight if they don't have to, and I really mean "have to", as in, all other possible and impossible options exhausted. But that's just TNG-era. When they see you as a threat, DS9-era Federation will force you to attack first, while TOS-era Federation will be just too happy to kick your ass.

EDIT: And that's assuming Section 31 doesn't wreck you before Federation even realizes you exist.
to be fair TNG era federation had no real enemies the Klingons were passive until the civil war and the Romulans were not ever going to make direct war. The Borg raided rarely and the Cardassians had no hope up taking on an updated fleet considering one of their better warships couldn't even damage an unshielded galaxy and a nebula ran wild in their space with no way to stop it even after given shield hacks

they could afford to be gentle and even then Picard seemed like he was a wild and somewhat brutal youth and I don't recall any indication that prior to his overcoming his demons at some point between a Nausican sword in his chest and when we first see him in the series that he was ever considered anything but a prodigy who would one day command a ship or starbase or make admiral

Picard
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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Picard » Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:29 pm

Well, Maxwell made preemptive strike and was scolded by Picard. For him to consider such action necessary, I'd say that Federation has to be damn pacifistic not to react to Cardassians preparing attack.

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Lucky » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:56 am

Picard wrote:Well, Maxwell made preemptive strike and was scolded by Picard. For him to consider such action necessary, I'd say that Federation has to be damn pacifistic not to react to Cardassians preparing attack.
The UFP had just made a treaty with the Cardasions, and was very worried the Borg would show up in mass at the time.

You also can't have captains unilaterally declaring war because they have more or less a gut feeling.

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Picard » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:57 am

A treaty Cardassians were preparing to break. Granted, Borg thing still stands, but fact that Federation wasn't on Cardassia at that time...

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Lucky » Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:09 pm

Picard wrote:A treaty Cardassians were preparing to break.
The captain did not know that, and even if he had hard evidence it is not his place to take the actions he did.
Picard wrote:Granted, Borg thing still stands,
Yes
Picard wrote:but fact that Federation wasn't on Cardassia at that time...
What are you talking about?

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Picard » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:15 pm

The captain did not know that, and even if he had hard evidence it is not his place to take the actions he did.
No, it is place of Federation Council. But given how deep Council had its head in its ass at the time...
What are you talking about?
Federation could have conquered all the way to Cardassia Prime in order to force a favourable treaty. But there was no will to do it. They didn't even bring as much weight as they could have against Cardassia; if they did, Cardassians would have thought thrice before messing with Federation again.

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Admiral Breetai » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:39 am

in all honesty given what the Klingons did..the Feds could have utterly ruined the Cardassians in weeks

but as picard said he was trying to prevent that

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Picard » Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:05 pm

He was. But had Federation kicked Cardassians real hard, war would have been over soon. Maybe there wouldn't be a Dominion War, even.

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Re: Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

Post by Lucky » Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:12 pm

The captain did not know that, and even if he had hard evidence it is not his place to take the actions he did.
Picard wrote:No, it is place of Federation Council. But given how deep Council had its head in its ass at the time...
Could you please explain?
What are you talking about?
Picard wrote:Federation could have conquered all the way to Cardassia Prime in order to force a favourable treaty. But there was no will to do it. They didn't even bring as much weight as they could have against Cardassia; if they did, Cardassians would have thought thrice before messing with Federation again.
The Cardasians were just an annoyance to the UFP, and the UFP knew they could at least end hostilities for a little while with the treaty giving them time to recover and prepare for the Borg and deal with other hostile forces.

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