Who wining the war Yesterday Enterpise timeline

[Khas]

No, mojo. That line I posted was from the badly-written fanfic "Half Life: Full Life Consequences: Free Man". Although, Jasonb is one of the farthest things away from a positive debater I've seen.

[Praeothmin]

Picard said the Federation was losing the war...
Picard was in the Federation...
You were not JasonB, thus Picard is right, and you're wrong...

[Jasonb]

Picard said the Federation was losing the war...
Picard was in the Federation...
You were not JasonB, thus Picard is right, and you're wrong...

Pircard look surprise and said they not even troubling to cloak themselves
Riker said” they not be so convent after pacing we gave them at Archer 4. Tell us that UFP had majority victory in Archer 4 and Klingon took heavy loses.
This much more important what Pircard said that starfleet command UFP going have surrender six months. Since Starfleet command no way analyzing all important factor why they won. It would take Starfleet intelligence months in order for starfleet intelligence to able to do that.


Starfleet command belief has do with Starfleet intelligence told them about what they know at the time. Klingon Empire stop using photon torpedoes Starfleet Intelligence likely know that in a month time. The effect it would have war would likely take a year before either side know if the Klingon Empire was making smart move or not.
Only scout ships used cloaking device the UFP intelligence would take up to year to find out.

Pircard know Klingon did not have effect long range sensors fact he gave give Riker 9 hours get ship away. The fact during Star Terk search for Spock Klingon had better sensors speak volumes he also know Klingon warships lot slower USS Enterprise D and possible USS Enterprise C to. So Pircad know Klingon take draw back steps order stay in the war. So Starfleet intelligence already know about two of them. Let say Klingon Empire took two drawback steps in order stay in war for about another 10 years.

The Klingon Empire only equipment scouts ships cloak devices. Pircad likely did not know about that.

Fact Klingon no longer using photon torpedoes Starfleet command might or might not have known at that time.

All factors lead UFP victory at Archer 4 would have likely take years for both sides to finger out.

While very few detail about the battle Archer 4 part of the victory likely had do with the fact Klingon commanding office include planning using tactic work fine all starship had cloak devices and had photon torpedoes ,but work terrible when they did not have those kind equipment. Worst yet commander office likely train us those kind tactics that depend on cloak device and perhaps photon torpedoes. These problems include tactic and training guessing that way now fighting war could work taken weeks maybe years before Klingon Empire could overcome them. During time Klingon would take heavy loss and perhaps force surrender. UFP also likely offensive for change push Klingon Empire to defeat.

[Picard]

You can win battles, but still loose the war.

Germans put a licking on Red Army in Battle of Prokhorovka. Guess who won the war?

(Germans lost 32 tanks vs 259 Soviet)

http://www.uni.edu/~licari/citadel.htm

[Mr. Oragahn]

You can win battles, but still loose the war.

Germans put a licking on Red Army in Battle of Prokhorovka. Guess who won the war?

(Germans lost 32 tanks vs 259 Soviet)

http://www.uni.edu/~licari/citadel.htm

Soviets were throwing tanks at the Germans like soiled panties. I think a couple small SS divisions were wasting hordes of enemy tanks in the futile defense of Berlin.

[Jasonb]

You can win battles, but still loose the war.

Germans put a licking on Red Army in Battle of Prokhorovka. Guess who won the war?

(Germans lost 32 tanks vs 259 Soviet)

http://www.uni.edu/~licari/citadel.htm

Nazi Germany lost the War USSR because they were not ready winter and lack able keep building tanks, planes other weapon systems. Also the USSR would have lost war against Nazi Germany if USA did not sending in tons supplies include weapons, food and medical supplies over to all allies power fighting against Axis power include USSR. The USSR knock out action if not USA during World War 2.


Yes you can win a war even with take longer number major defeats if you have man power and resources to do so. Union lost must battle against Confederacy in America Civil War we lost more men then the confederacy lost in Gettysburg Campaign. In Star Trek normal timeline we have Dominion war. However Klingon Empire had lot less man power and less recourses then UFP has available to wage war. UFP jump backup after Dominion war. The Klingon Empire need 20 years rebuild at least before they could become threat way after Dominion war. Beside any side downgrade fleet just to stay in war every 5 years are in practice losing war.

War had to have been going pretty badly Klingon Empire if because lack resource and man power that they can only equipment scout ships with cloak devices. Their also going other unexpected loses that no one military chain command going notice until they take them. UFP great surprises find out winning every major battle next six month or so while Klingon get house order.

[Sideswipe]

Where did you half learn English?

[Jasonb]

Where did you half learn English?

It personal I trying spell check but spell check does so much.

[Praeothmin]

Picard said the Federation was losing the war...
Picard was in the Federation...
You were not JasonB, thus Picard is right, and you're wrong...

[Jasonb]

Picard said the Federation was losing the war...
Picard was in the Federation...
You were not JasonB, thus Picard is right, and you're wrong...

If that best argument you can us you can make then already lost the debate. Like I said before just because words come Commander UFP office like Pircad , Sisko means nothing they have been wrong tones time so has Starfleet intelligence . It just means to best their knowledge they losing war. UFP does not have starship cloak devices to able get true strong Klingon Empire so anything like shut down photon torpedoes factories and cloak device factories find out. Pircard see that the Klingon warships did not even cloak themselves might well change his option on how war going all together if he had time to think which he did not.

[Picard]

You have lost the debate by arguing against Starfleet officer. No go sleep.

[Jasonb]

You have lost the debate by arguing against Starfleet officer. No go sleep.

Three piece evidence that Klingon cloaking technologies what allow give UFP so much trouble and three piece evidence issues much longer either. First why did UFP starship intercept those three Klingon warships? Why did Pircard give the Riker 9 hours get the USS Enterprise C under way when USS Enterprise D had the time to both pick on long range sense allow both blow USS Enterprise C sky high and leave? The reason UFP send 3 starship destroy Klingon warship they believe likely be trapped. Pircard fear in ambush by Klingon warships.

Know question why did Klingon send three starships that UFP easily just send fleet destroy into enemy territory. Answer the UFP not dare attack Klingon fleet along as they did believe must fleet had cloak devices. Klingon likely easily target raids help demoral the enemies were three Klingon warships more then enough. Reason Klingon not going in cloak was because only scout ships had cloak device issues resource.

Even Riker said not be so confident special after pacing we gave them Archer 4. Suggestion victory Archer 4 had to do Klingon not using cloak devices.

Without cloak device Klingon Empire learn new word language call surrender.

[Praeothmin]

Picard said the Federation was losing the war...
Picard was in the Federation...
You were not JasonB, thus Picard is right, and you're wrong...

[Jasonb]

Picard said the Federation was losing the war...
Picard was in the Federation...
You were not JasonB, thus Picard is right, and you're wrong...

If genetic engineer guys check stuff faster then anything starfleet intelligence could do get things so wrong Dominion war. Pircard statement nothing more then statement and guessing. Beside not even heard how Klingon see things. All other evidence suggestion Klingon see that they losing.

[mojo]

as much as i hate to agree with jasonb, your argument is less than satisfying when coming from someone who once responded to my question of 'if george lucas came out and flatly stated that star wars would destroy star trek in a fight, and then declared firepower numbers so high that accepting them would end the debate instantly to be canon, would you accept that' with 'no, i would still rely on the evidence seen in the movies'. if picard says the federation is losing, but jason thinks the evidence outside that statement shows otherwise, the statement itself is not enough to prove the point.