In star Terk first contact were massive UFP fleet

[Jasonb]

Mike, please, don't encourage him... :(

The guy'S worse than SWST AND KSW rolled into one, plus with bad grammar...

Christ, he kept arguing that the Klingons were losing the war in "Yesterday's Enterprise" despite Picard explicitely claiming the exact opposite...

They did have many Borg cubes attack scripted in any cases it like see evidence please check out this site. In background chapter of this site site.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Quantum_torpedo


As for Yesterday Enterprise timeline I find basic ever other piece evidence suggestion Klingon Empire was losing other what Caption Pircard said. Fact that Klingon Empire take 20 years rebuild after war Dominion and latter UFP. The fact that Klingon warships that heading to attack USS Enterprise C and USS Enterprise D were in practice fly into suicide mission unless real aim destroy USS Enterprise C. USS Enterprise D gone fire photon torpedoes then fire her phasers and destroy the first while she reload photon torpedoes and second. The third one USS Enterprise D take little bit beaten while her phaser chargers and destroy third one. They pretty desperation destroy Enterprise C. The only way explain it is that they desperation make sure UFP did get another warships full operation and back starbases. Only reason she did not was try defend USS Enterprise C at all costs and had stay best place possible to defend her.

[mojo]

Mike, please, don't encourage him... :(

The guy'S worse than SWST AND KSW rolled into one, plus with bad grammar...

Christ, he kept arguing that the Klingons were losing the war in "Yesterday's Enterprise" despite Picard explicitely claiming the exact opposite...

how the fuck can you even determine what he's arguing?

[Praeothmin]

Mike, please, don't encourage him... :(

The guy'S worse than SWST AND KSW rolled into one, plus with bad grammar...

Christ, he kept arguing that the Klingons were losing the war in "Yesterday's Enterprise" despite Picard explicitely claiming the exact opposite...

how the fuck can you even determine what he's arguing?

I was on drunk at the time... :)

[Picard]

Mike, please, don't encourage him... :(

The guy'S worse than SWST AND KSW rolled into one, plus with bad grammar...

Christ, he kept arguing that the Klingons were losing the war in "Yesterday's Enterprise" despite Picard explicitely claiming the exact opposite...

They did have many Borg cubes attack scripted in any cases it like see evidence please check out this site. In background chapter of this site site.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Quantum_torpedo


As for Yesterday Enterprise timeline I find basic ever other piece evidence suggestion Klingon Empire was losing other what Caption Pircard said. Fact that Klingon Empire take 20 years rebuild after war Dominion and latter UFP. The fact that Klingon warships that heading to attack USS Enterprise C and USS Enterprise D were in practice fly into suicide mission unless real aim destroy USS Enterprise C. USS Enterprise D gone fire photon torpedoes then fire her phasers and destroy the first while she reload photon torpedoes and second. The third one USS Enterprise D take little bit beaten while her phaser chargers and destroy third one. They pretty desperation destroy Enterprise C. The only way explain it is that they desperation make sure UFP did get another warships full operation and back starbases. Only reason she did not was try defend USS Enterprise C at all costs and had stay best place possible to defend her.

Picard said that Federation was losing the goddamn war, can you even read? You are confusing original and alternative timeline. In original timeline, Federation is strong enough (after Borg incursions) to take on Klingon Empire and probably win. In alternate timeline, Klingon-Federation war was going on from early 24th century, and Federation was losing entire time. You've obviously got about as much mental capacity as average Starfleet bureocrat.

[mojo]

totally different thing altogether, but in the alternate timeline of q, squared, the klingons hand the federation it's ass near-effortlessly.

[Jasonb]

totally different thing altogether, but in the alternate timeline of q, squared, the klingons hand the federation it's ass near-effortlessly.

No cannon evidence suggestion the Klingon Empire was much better off. Just because UFP welling surrender first means nothing. We real did not know Yesterday Enterprise UFP options were. If territoriality war then does any one here believe that UFP willing to fight to death over territoriality if come the cost of it major population centers. Klingon Empire other hand well pay must population gain victory over enemy.

Pircard also talk about other alternatives. Suggestion that UFP had more then one alternative.

[Picard]

totally different thing altogether, but in the alternate timeline of q, squared, the klingons hand the federation it's ass near-effortlessly.

No cannon evidence suggestion the Klingon Empire was much better off. Just because UFP welling surrender first means nothing. We real did not know Yesterday Enterprise UFP options were. If territoriality war then does any one here believe that UFP willing to fight to death over territoriality if come the cost of it major population centers. Klingon Empire other hand well pay must population gain victory over enemy.

Pircard also talk about other alternatives. Suggestion that UFP had more then one alternative.

Guess you can't argue with cannon.

[Jasonb]

I never claim that you could argue with cannon. However Pircad said consider all alternatives in the staff meeting about send USS Enterprise C back.

Show more evidence either surrender Pircard hope for not biological warfare being answer to their Klingon problem mass slaughter of federation citizen include part family.

I also found another piece evidence help add to complex of the how going. Piracrd try convince Tesher yar to on USS Enterprise D by saying you know very possible USS Enterprise C well fail you be alive for quick some time.
It unlikely that Pircard statement there is six months.

With all evidence Pircard statement with evidence meant that the UFP political have no choice surrender if Klingon because UFP unwell sacrificial heavy population areas over disputed regions. Mean six mouths time the Klingon reach the UFP heavy population areas.

[359]

With all evidence Pircard statement with evidence meant that the UFP political have no choice surrender if Klingon because UFP unwell sacrificial heavy population areas over disputed regions. Mean six mouths time the Klingon reach the UFP heavy population areas.

And generally when one is winning a war instead of loosing, and when the war is fought a good distance from your large population centers (unlike the European Allies in WWII), you are not constantly in danger of having consistent large attacks/massicars on you heavily populated worlds. So if the Federation were pushed to the point of surrender because of attacks on their citizenry, they are definitely not winning. In fact they are definitely loosing.

[Jasonb]

With all evidence Pircard statement with evidence meant that the UFP political have no choice surrender if Klingon because UFP unwell sacrificial heavy population areas over disputed regions. Mean six mouths time the Klingon reach the UFP heavy population areas.

And generally when one is winning a war instead of loosing, and when the war is fought a good distance from your large population centers (unlike the European Allies in WWII), you are not constantly in danger of having consistent large attacks/massicars on you heavily populated worlds. So if the Federation were pushed to the point of surrender because of attacks on their citizenry, they are definitely not winning. In fact they are definitely loosing.

In Earth only 90 light years away Klingon homeworld at must just Klingon under 65 light years UFP terrioiry hardly means winning.Archer IV has populaton about 700 million people hardly that many compare over 10 billion. Archer 4 fall might have well made the Federation feel no choice surrender it very possible some Federation fleet attack and destory major Klingon population centers since both fleets well control different areas that have strongth and weakness.

[359]

In Earth only 90 light years away Klingon homeworld at must just Klingon under 65 light years UFP terrioiry hardly means winning.Archer IV has populaton about 700 million people hardly that many compare over 10 billion. Archer 4 fall might have well made the Federation feel no choice surrender it very possible some Federation fleet attack and destory major Klingon population centers since both fleets well control different areas that have strongth and weakness.

To me that sounds like the Federation is

constantly in danger of having consistent large attacks/massicars on [its] heavily populated worlds.

and because the enemy fleet is in their territory and they cannot prevent a [hypothetical] attack it sounds like they are loosing the war. If they are winning why would they surrender? The meaning of 'loosing' is somewhat subjective, in this case it means: incapable of protecting the Federation and its worlds, and/or incapable of preventing the advance of the Klingon fleet further into Federation space.

[Jasonb]

In Earth only 90 light years away Klingon homeworld at must just Klingon under 65 light years UFP terrioiry hardly means winning.Archer IV has populaton about 700 million people hardly that many compare over 10 billion. Archer 4 fall might have well made the Federation feel no choice surrender it very possible some Federation fleet attack and destory major Klingon population centers since both fleets well control different areas that have strongth and weakness.

To me that sounds like the Federation is

constantly in danger of having consistent large attacks/massicars on [its] heavily populated worlds.

and because the enemy fleet is in their territory and they cannot prevent a [hypothetical] attack it sounds like they are loosing the war. If they are winning why would they surrender? The meaning of 'loosing' is somewhat subjective, in this case it means: incapable of protecting the Federation and its worlds, and/or incapable of preventing the advance of the Klingon fleet further into Federation space.

If often depend on the cost that a side well pay for victory in a war. For example USA surrender South Vietnam during Vietnam war. Does that mean USA was unable to win Vietnam war. UFP is very big again the UFP lack the starships need protect all major population centers. Hardly means the UFP not kept going fight perhaps even go offensive hit major Klingon population centers. Having to sacrifice it major population centers in order to win war might simple not been not worth the cost in blood. UFP easily survival out territoriality that both the UFP and Klingon claim as theirs. Order win war having sacrifice some major population centers would have not been cost the UFP welling to pay over issues of territoriality that both side claim was theirs.

Pircard statement might not choice surrender and him saying Tasher Yar that if USS Enterprise C fail she been around we not need for quick a while and then topic Pircard said consider all all alliterative means many different possible option the UFP might choose surrender must likely best option table with terms Klingon offering. It had to do fact UFP was unwilling have some major population centers slaughter order to win a war over some star systems that both side claimed.

Side even in modern history have surrender because cost victory be just to high.

[359]

For example USA surrender South Vietnam during Vietnam war. Does that mean USA was unable to win Vietnam war.

The US pulled out of Vietnam because of political pressure from its citizens as the war became unpopular, and it was loosing the conflict on top of that.

As for the war, it is expressly stated in the episode that the Federation was loosing the war. In fact that was the point of the Episode, it pointed to how if one lonely star ship was not in just the right place in just the right time then history could be drastically different, this being the near destruction of the Federation. While it is possible to conjure up other possibilities, they are irreverent because there is nothing within the episode indicating such scenarios were to take place.

[Jasonb]

For example USA surrender South Vietnam during Vietnam war. Does that mean USA was unable to win Vietnam war.

The US pulled out of Vietnam because of political pressure from its citizens as the war became unpopular, and it was loosing the conflict on top of that.

As for the war, it is expressly stated in the episode that the Federation was loosing the war. In fact that was the point of the Episode, it pointed to how if one lonely star ship was not in just the right place in just the right time then history could be drastically different, this being the near destruction of the Federation. While it is possible to conjure up other possibilities, they are irreverent because there is nothing within the episode indicating such scenarios were to take place.

Yes stated episode however it does not override cannon evidence any scale.
Pircard try talk her out join USS Enterprise C crew request it by making this statement.
Pircard said You realize that it's very possible the Enterprise-C will fail? We will continue in this timeline, in which case your life, hopefully,will continue for a long while.

This statement back my claim that UFP offer surrender terms over DT they have no choice surrender same reason the USA force surrender in Vietnam. UFP simple not welling pay heavy price for victory otherwise explain this line.
Also please explain why UFP being so big how come UFP us Russia tactic as defense means. Which might well been UFP plan B. Both are heavy back by this statement and rest Star Terk cannon.