Enterprise D power generation

[Praeothmin]

Lucky, a couple of issues with your interpretations:

They are talking about .6 terawatts being a small power fluctuation in the Enterprise-D's Phaser output.

No, Data specifically said "point zero six", which is 0.06, and not "zero point six/, which would be your 0.6 result...
This means a variance of 0.014 KT in their Phaser output is a small power fluctuation...

Voyager can take weapons fire from something that has an output of nine million terawatts.

No!
Voyager can take fire from a station that emits a cloaking field with a power of nine million TW (2.15 GT)...
This does not in any way mean that the weapons have that power...

[Mike DiCenso]

That sounds like Voyager was being hit with 30 million terajoules rather then 30 million being the total output of the object.

No, at the point that Janeway says that, the ellipse is still more than 2,000 kilometers away, and she clearly says that in context of the total output, not that Voyager itself is being hit by that much.
-Mike

[Mike DiCenso]

No!
Voyager can take fire from a station that emits a cloaking field with a power of nine million TW (2.15 GT)...
This does not in any way mean that the weapons have that power...

The missed context is that Voyager used her navigational deflector to "light up", that is disrupt that 9 million TW cloaking field. That in and of itself is impressive.
-Mike

[Praeothmin]

Ah, I see!
That information was not presented, and still does not change the bad interpretation of the weapon's fire...

We know that navigational deflectors on starships can fire much more powerful blasts than Phasers, like in BoBW when the E-D fired at the Borg...

[Mike DiCenso]

Right, but this is a power generation thread, not specifically a phaser firepower thread. So the fact that a medium-sized ship by TNG-era standards can generate that much power in the first place to disrupt the 9 million TW Ba'neth cloaking shield is.
-Mike

[Praeothmin]

I never doubted that Federation ships can generate much more power than their size would have us believe, I just had issues with Lucky's interpretation of what he read or saw...

[Mike DiCenso]

Yes, but the "Riddles" example provided an example of two Star Trek vehicles (a Federation starship and an a comparably technologically equal alien space station) with a huge multiple millions of terawatt power generation, which supports the much earlier TNG "True Q" power quote by Data. Which was my point since both you and Lucky somehow missed that.
-Mike

[Lucky]

Is there some reason you aren't bothering to finish your thoughts?

No, Data specifically said "point zero six", which is 0.06, and not "zero point six/, which would be your 0.6 result...

I'm sure you have never made a mistake, and accidently left out a number or letter.

This means a variance of 0.014 KT in their Phaser output is a small power fluctuation...

That would still be a huge number for what is suppose to be a tiny power surge. 14 tons is a huge amount of energy unless you are dealing with far larger amounts.

No!
Voyager can take fire from a station that emits a cloaking field with a power of nine million TW (2.15 GT)...
This does not in any way mean that the weapons have that power...

Cloaks in Star Trek are basically shields turned up to 11 and then some. Basically Voyager had a reading as to how strong the shields of the cloaked thingy, and knew the actual reactor output was much higher. How often do we hear them order power diverted from one system to another?

[Lucky]

No, at the point that Janeway says that, the ellipse is still more than 2,000 kilometers away, and she clearly says that in context of the total output, not that Voyager itself is being hit by that much.
-Mike

It sounds like an off the cuff sarcastic remark, and I can't find when Janeway reads a sensor readout.

[Praeothmin]

I'm sure you have never made a mistake, and accidently left out a number or letter.

I have, a few times actually, and each time it was pointed out to me, just like I pointed it out to you...
It was not an attack, simply a correction...

That would still be a huge number for what is suppose to be a tiny power surge. 14 tons is a huge amount of energy unless you are dealing with far larger amounts.

For us, yes, but for a ship that supposedly throws around high MT or even GT of firepower, not so much, IMO...

Cloaks in Star Trek are basically shields turned up to 11 and then some.

And that is stated where?

Basically Voyager had a reading as to how strong the shields of the cloaked thingy, and knew the actual reactor output was much higher. How often do we hear them order power diverted from one system to another?

And where did they measure the weapon's power?

[sonofccn]

And that is stated where?

Well the most clear case I know of would be "The Enterprise Incident" {TOS-3}:

SCOTT: But, sir, what about Mister Spock?
KIRK: We'll just have to hope he can buy us enough time to get this cloaking device installed.
SCOTT: It'll have to hook into our deflector shield control.

Implying at least on starfleet vessels retrofited off the cuff some linkage between shields and cloaking. Of course in "the Emperor's New Cloak" {DS9-07] we learn at least Klingon cloaking devices can self-cloak while being man handled by two Ferengis so extrapolate what you will.

[Praeothmin]

All it shows us is that the Cloak can work with the Shields power grid, but nowhere does it state, or even imply, that

Cloaks in Star Trek are basically shields turned up to 11 and then some.

[sonofccn]

All it shows us is that the Cloak can work with the Shields power grid, but nowhere does it state, or even imply, that

Cloaks in Star Trek are basically shields turned up to 11 and then some.

Well I'd argue its using the shield emitters, unless that is what you implied with "power grid", to generate the "cloaking field" and that there is some link between shields and cloaks. Admitedly there are lots of extropolation and interpetation that must be done with the quote but I still would argue it is the best, most clear cut evidence of the linkage between the two.

I will not argue that by itself it can't support the whole statment but the, in my opinion, kernel of the argument, shield and cloak linkage, I feel can be supported by it. To what extent this relationship goes and its implications are of course another argument entirely.

Besides sometimes I like arguing for the Trek side if only for the novelty of it, you wouldn't deny me that Praeo would you? ;)

[Praeothmin]

No problem with that, as we saw with multiple examples that shields can act as a certain cloaking devices of sort...
The only thing I object to is the "times 11" stuff...

[Mike DiCenso]

Gentlemen, this is not a discussion on shields, it's about the E-D's power generation. How shields and cloaking devices work should only be brought up in context to figuring that sort of thing out.
-Mike