L.A.S.E.R. VS Federation Vessels

[Lucky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4JUxQe4P4g

KOLRAMI: Correct. Engineering will disconnect the Enterprise's weapons and link the system with the modified laser-pulse beam. All hits will be recorded electronically. If the computer registers damage, it will act accordingly, shutting down the affected areas for the appropriate repair time. Additional questions? Captain Picard, it is my understanding that you initially resisted Starfleet's request for this simulation.

Original Version
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... nce202.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... nce203.jpg

High Definition Version
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x21/ ... hd_321.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x21/ ... hd_322.jpg

[2046]

Easy . . . Kolrami mentions it is a modified laser-pulse beam thingy, and it's modified to send a channel of inert gas, too, to make the lasers really nifty looking because, er, uh, oh yeah, because Starfleet's secretly recording this from satellites or ground stations or something and the admiralty really likes raw footage instead of computer simulated holofootage. Yeah, that's the ticket.

;-)

[Praeothmin]

I think it has been established many times over that not all lasers will damage Fed ships, ust as it would be foolish believing in the not limits fallacy saying that "Dur, no lazors kin hert da enterprizzz!"...

Unless your post was simply to show how much better looking the High def version of TNG is... :)

[Lucky]

I think it has been established many times over that not all lasers will damage Fed ships, ust as it would be foolish believing in the not limits fallacy saying that "Dur, no lazors kin hert da enterprizzz!"...

Unless your post was simply to show how much better looking the High def version of TNG is... :)

I only know of one time a LASER was effective, and that was only after the Borg had taken down the shields and disable all of the Enterprise-D's defenses, and the beam wasn't just a LASER.

[Lucky]

Easy . . . Kolrami mentions it is a modified laser-pulse beam thingy, and it's modified to send a channel of inert gas, too, to make the lasers really nifty looking because, er, uh, oh yeah, because Starfleet's secretly recording this from satellites or ground stations or something and the admiralty really likes raw footage instead of computer simulated holofootage. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Sorry, I forgot to tell what i was trying to point out:
In Peak Performance when the LASER hits the ship there is a notable white flash where the LASER hit. I doubt that the LASER would be remotely powerful enough to actually damage the hull, and that would imply a shield was causing the flash, but the scene doesn't seem match standard effects used for the shields. I propose that we are seeing the navigational deflector stop the laser.

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The Enterprise-D taking pictures of itself from seemingly impossible angles is a canon ability seen in other episodes.

Galaxy's Child
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... ild188.jpg

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Given the faster then light sensor technology in Star Trek, i fail to feel the need to try to rationalize a visual that is slightly odd/off when it would have to be taken by sensors that record things other then the visual spectrum.

[Mith]

In Peak Performance when the LASER hits the ship there is a notable white flash where the LASER hit. I doubt that the LASER would be remotely powerful enough to actually damage the hull, and that would imply a shield was causing the flash, but the scene doesn't seem match standard effects used for the shields. I propose that we are seeing the navigational deflector stop the laser.

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Or maybe the laser is just a harmless beam of light that doesn't actually do anything other than register hits. I mean, why would you bother wasting energy for a wargame if you don't have to.

The Enterprise-D taking pictures of itself from seemingly impossible angles is a canon ability seen in other episodes.

Or more likely, they just made a mistake in production. Jesus Fing Christ dude, seriously? Please tell me you're kidding. And really, if we have to justify this, chances are, they just launched a probe and were observing it from that feed. Or hell, what we saw was a computer generated model produced by what the sensors knew, purely so the officers could get a better look.

Given the faster then light sensor technology in Star Trek, i fail to feel the need to try to rationalize a visual that is slightly odd/off when it would have to be taken by sensors that record things other then the visual spectrum.

I'm sorry, but having FTL sensor technology isn't a blank check.

[2046]

That could be computer generated based on sensor data, a nifty trick where they bounce LIDAR or similar off the shield bubble and colorize it, or some really nifty trick with the shields where they were able to actually generate a reflection on the shield bubble interior in visible or near-visible wavelengths

I kinda like the first and last ones, myself.

Also, if you wanna get picky, this doesn't work either:

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... nor122.jpg

[Lucky]

Or maybe the laser is just a harmless beam of light that doesn't actually do anything other than register hits. I mean, why would you bother wasting energy for a wargame if you don't have to.

Why would they have bothered to turn off the navigational deflector when they never seem to turn it off at any other time? They are zipping around a planet rather quickly after all.

What evidence is there that they turned off the navigational deflector? We see it glowing brightly white just like the points that the laser beam hits.

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x21/ ... hd_321.jpg

The beam doesn't even seem to actually touch the Enterprise-D.

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How do you explain a red beam suddenly white flash just above the E-D hull?

How do you explain the diffused cloud of red/pink above the hull?

Or more likely, they just made a mistake in production. Jesus Fing Christ dude, seriously? Please tell me you're kidding. And really, if we have to justify this, chances are, they just launched a probe and were observing it from that feed. Or hell, what we saw was a computer generated model produced by what the sensors knew, purely so the officers could get a better look.

Are you saying that the Federation lacks the technology to have something like a drone camera or a small shuttle because that is what your argument requires.

I'm sorry, but having FTL sensor technology isn't a blank check.

FTL sensors means they can take a picture of each photon particle/wave, and that means they can see a L.A.S.E.R. as it travels between point A to point B.

[theta_pinch]

I think it has been established many times over that not all lasers will damage Fed ships, ust as it would be foolish believing in the not limits fallacy saying that "Dur, no lazors kin hert da enterprizzz!"...

Actually Captain Picard said that no laser can hurt the enterprise:
WORF: Still no response. Captain, they are now locking lasers on us.
RIKER: Lasers?
WORF: Yes, sir.
PICARD: Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?

Captain Picard says Lasers in a general sense; not their lasers as in the laser weapons that they were being targeted with.

[Picard]

If naivigational shields protect against relatively weak lasers it doesn't mean they'll protect against the lasers of any power output. Comment should be taken as meaning that navigational shields protect against laser weapons, but combat shields are required for protecting against phasers and similar.

[theta_pinch]

If naivigational shields protect against relatively weak lasers it doesn't mean they'll protect against the lasers of any power output.

Yes it does. Captain Picard was NOT referring to the lasers of the ship that was targeting them with lasers; if he was he would have said "their lasers" rather than just "lasers." Worf also never said how powerful the lasers were yet Picard still said: "lasers won't even penetrate the navigational deflector." In the entire conversation lasers were always mentioned in a general sense rather than specifically the lasers of that ship.

Also in another episode Worf said that a ship had High Power X-Ray Lasers and didn't consider that a threat. Those were high power not the "weak" lasers in from "The Outrageous Okona."

Comment should be taken as meaning that navigational shields protect against laser weapons, but combat shields are required for protecting against phasers and similar.

[2046]

Just tossing something out, but it seems to me that a proper light-bending gravitational shield (unlike the Fed shields which, while having a graviton component, do not seem to bend light whatsoever) ought to be able to bend a laser effortlessly, and, short of space-warping energy densities, ought to work for most any pure laser weapon (unlike virtually anything we ever see called a laser).

This would effectively be a cloaking device, of course.

[Picard]

Yes it does. Captain Picard was NOT referring to the lasers of the ship that was targeting them with lasers; if he was he would have said "their lasers" rather than just "lasers." Worf also never said how powerful the lasers were yet Picard still said: "lasers won't even penetrate the navigational deflector." In the entire conversation lasers were always mentioned in a general sense rather than specifically the lasers of that ship.

Also in another episode Worf said that a ship had High Power X-Ray Lasers and didn't consider that a threat. Those were high power not the "weak" lasers in from "The Outrageous Okona."

You know what is a no-limits fallacy? Or a context? Of course, it is entirely probable (actually, the only possible conclusion) that Federation ships can deflect lasers that are, going by power output, far more powerful than phasers or disruptors that would penetrate the shields, but it does not mean that they can deflect any laser weapons. Any laser weapons that could be practically put on a ship of a given size, maybe, and that is what Picard's comment should be taken to mean. Any laser weapons, period, no.

Just tossing something out, but it seems to me that a proper light-bending gravitational shield (unlike the Fed shields which, while having a graviton component, do not seem to bend light whatsoever) ought to be able to bend a laser effortlessly, and, short of space-warping energy densities, ought to work for most any pure laser weapon (unlike virtually anything we ever see called a laser).

This would effectively be a cloaking device, of course.

Federation shields have a frequency, which basically mean that they are not always on; they are "pulsated", rapidly turned on and off, which is also what allows phasers (which are similarly pulsated) through. Shields can be configured to completely stop the incoming fire (which is what Borg do with their frequency adaptation; allow early casualties for far fewer casualties later on), and weapons can be configured to pass through the shields by adjusting pulsation. This also means that light will not be normally stopped or affected (maybe we should be getting a fainter image of the ship but that's it). But if I do remember it correctly, shields can be configured so as to distort ship's visual signature.

[2046]

I was simply describing a hypothetical sci-fi scenario of a 'gravity wall'.

That said, outbound frequency windows on Trek shields are not an actual thing, are they? We know the shields have frequencies of course but I don't think that it is a two-way street… the ship can put anything out past its own shields.

Otherwise it seems like as soon as you fire phasers you'd have told the enemy your shield frequency.

[2046]

Nevermind, early morning brain. Transporters do require shield drop to work, implying both a wide frequency window requirement and an inability to open small holes (though they can beam through small holes as per "When the Bough Breaks" and Aldea's shield.