Worf vs an unarmed jedi knight?

[Socar]

I'm sure he was even in AOTC, even if he may have been appointed too quickly, but that's speculation.

No, after checking again, he was definitely only Knight status during AOTC. He achieved Master during the Clone Wars.

Anakin already was his pupil.

Knight's can take on pupils. In fact, some sources say you're supposed to sucessfully train a jedi BEFORE becoming a master.

[Praeothmin]

No, after checking again, he was definitely only Knight status during AOTC. He achieved Master during the Clone Wars.

He was still already an extremelly powerful force user, being one of the few survivors out of nearly 200 Jedis facing the battledroids... :)

[GStone]

If the jedi uses force powers, Worf is beaten. If they don't, Worf wipes the floor with them.

[Praeothmin]

If the jedi uses force powers, Worf is beaten. If they don't, Worf wipes the floor with them.

I just said that... :)

And Hand-to-Hand, Worf would cream any Jedi (without force power use).

Let's just say, if we assume that all Jedi have the same neat force powers, and if they use it competentaly (unlike what we see in the movies), then yes, I agree that the Force gives the Jedi an unsurmountable advantage.

[GStone]

I was giving my vote, bub. :-P Pfffbfbfbtbtbfbfbbtbt ;-)

[Praeothmin]

:)

[Kahless]

Have we ever really seen a Jedi use any kind of force push to throw something that big or do any kind of real damage to something? The most we ever see is some lightweight droids getting shoved down and it wasn't that impressive. More like something stood behind their legs rather than them being bodily thrown through the air. I really don't think the Jedi can possibly throw the stuff in the room hard enough to hurt someone as tough as Worf.

Also, the furniture in the room can be used both ways. I'm pretty confident Worf could throw a chair hard enough to brain the Jedi.

[Opecoiler]

Have we ever really seen a Jedi use any kind of force push to throw something that big or do any kind of real damage to something?

Yes, we have. All throughout the movies, as a matter of fact.

Dooku tossing objects at Yoda, and vice versa in AotC.

Vader throwing objects at Luke in TESB.

Droids being knocked over plenty of times.

Vader force-choking people throughout the original trilogy.

The most we ever see is some lightweight droids getting shoved down and it wasn't that impressive. More like something stood behind their legs rather than them being bodily thrown through the air. [/quotes]

Droids? Lightweight? A battle droid is as large as a very skinny human and is made out of metal, making them weight more.

I really don't think the Jedi can possibly throw the stuff in the room hard enough to hurt someone as tough as Worf.

Proof of this claim? Glass bottles tend to cut rather nastily.

Also, the furniture in the room can be used both ways. I'm pretty confident Worf could throw a chair hard enough to brain the Jedi.

The problem is that Jedi are far more durable than normal humans (Witness Grevious' punches that dent starfighter hulls not even bruising Obi-Wan, a Jedi in the AoTC arena requiring multiple shots from Jango's blaster to bring down, and many other examples), and have precognition, as well as the ability to jump extremely high.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Yes, we have. All throughout the movies, as a matter of fact.

Dooku tossing objects at Yoda, and vice versa in AotC.

Vader throwing objects at Luke in TESB.

Droids being knocked over plenty of times.

Vader force-choking people throughout the original trilogy.

Not to be an ass, but all the examples you point out involve the Sith, safe for the cases were Jedi used their powers against droids (battledroids, battle-3PO).

The only time I can think of a Jedi, sort of, using a power against a living being, it was Luke in ROTJ, against the porkman. Hardly your standardly trained light Jedi.

Again, look Obi-Wan.

He crushed droids with a piece of hardware dislodged from a roof.
He didn't use any Force powers directly on Grievous. He didn't even attempt to return Grievous' lightsabres against him or anything involving TK.
The only time he really noticably used telekinesis, it was to grab a distant blaster and shoot at Grievous.

That's really reminescent of the American mentality regarding weapons.
Apparently, the hypocrit Jedi make a difference between directly using the Force to kill one person, and using the Force to grab a ligthsabre or a blaster to kill someone.

The lightsabre, in that context, is really some sort of "ethical buffer".

See also how Obi-Wan went through a convulated move to kill Maul, instead of TK impale him with the lightsabre directly while the Sith was distracted, instead of risking a stupid flashy move.

I'm sure you can find EU evidence that speaks of Jedi using their powers against living beings in an agressive way, but that doesn't seem to be how Lucas sees his own universe.

Droids? Lightweight? A battle droid is as large as a very skinny human and is made out of metal, making them weight more.

I'm not so convinced about the basic battledroids though. Though Gungans are strong, the force needed to move a torso around or topple a droid isn't that impressive (TPM).

Proof of this claim? Glass bottles tend to cut rather nastily.

I agree with this, but I think the Jedi, at best, would use the Force to grab the improvised weapon, not use it as a projectile.

The problem is that Jedi are far more durable than normal humans (Witness Grevious' punches that dent starfighter hulls not even bruising Obi-Wan, a Jedi in the AoTC arena requiring multiple shots from Jango's blaster to bring down, and many other examples), and have precognition, as well as the ability to jump extremely high.

Precog seems to be glorifed though.

[Kahless]

Droids? Lightweight? A battle droid is as large as a very skinny human and is made out of metal, making them weight more.

More like a skinny persons skeleton and more probably a light weight ceramic since they don't need to be particularly durable in their normal duties. Plus, they have to be hauled en masse in those droid IFVs and they appear to be mostly empty space.

I would put the weight at 50-75 pounds given the evidence.

[Jedi Master Spock]

IMO, that's probably a good estimate. The basic battledroids seem very lightweight.

There's also this question to consider: In a classic barroom brawl, shouldn't both participants be inebriated?

[Narsil]

In a barroom brawl, only one participant needs to be intoxicated. The other poor bloke could have only just arrived and not have had time or inclination to imbibe alcohol and is merely fighting out of a sense of 'If I don't, I'll get my arse kicked by the other guy.'

It's less likely to be the Jedi as the Jedi Knights are monk-like in such policies as abstinence, while Worf has canonically been drunk before.

[Mr. Oragahn]

IMO, that's probably a good estimate. The basic battledroids seem very lightweight.

There's also this question to consider: In a classic barroom brawl, shouldn't both participants be inebriated?

Ok. There should be plenty of beverages spilled all over the bar and wetting the floor. Next, someone puts that on fire, because it's just better that way.

So here, you have your flames.

[Jedi Master Spock]

In a barroom brawl, only one participant needs to be intoxicated.

Need, yes, but most often both are at least one sheet to the wind.

The other poor bloke could have only just arrived and not have had time or inclination to imbibe alcohol and is merely fighting out of a sense of 'If I don't, I'll get my arse kicked by the other guy.'

It's less likely to be the Jedi as the Jedi Knights are monk-like in such policies as abstinence, while Worf has canonically been drunk before.

Well, if Worf is drunk and the Jedi is quite sober, that's hardly a fair fight, now, is it?

[Mike DiCenso]

I think something that is continuely being missed here is that Obi-Wan Kenobi is hardly what anyone should consider "the average Jedi Knight". Ob-Wan is clearly well-above the average as far as swordsmanship, and Force-ability goes.
-Mike