Klingon invasion of Armageddon

[WolfRitter]

You got pics?

[Praeothmin]

I don't, but Trekcore has them by the bucketload.
I can't access it from work at the moment, but I'll try to find them when I can... :)

[l33telboi]

You got two choices here, it's either DET or some chain reaction, there is no third option, and unlike a lasgun, we've never seen actual vapour from a phaser.

Chain-reaction weapons are a sub-type of what one could call (and is often referred to) as technobabble weapons.

And since it seems you have no idea what the terms you use really mean, let me break it down for you. TB weapons do stuff modern science says shouldn't be possible, or at least has some part of the weapon mechanism or effect that science can't explain. The majority of Sci-Fi weapon falls under this category.

CR weapons on the other hand are very specific. They somehow start a process that then increases exponentially on it's own (nukes are an example of this sort of weapon). Then there are a lot of sub-types for CR weapons as well.

The bottom line is that there are those who often like to go "chain-reaction lol", without actually understanding what it means or what it entitles. This is often no more then an attempt to somehow handwave away what weapons really do to their targets. But untill you've actually provided evidence of the chain-reaction method, and more importantly, just what kind of chain-reaction we're talking about, it's a pretty useless statement.

[Praeothmin]

Here's a link to the shots being fired in "The Vengeance Factor", and immediately after that, you have the screenshot of the vapour cloud:
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... tor073.jpg

I'll try to find the DS9 episode a little bit later, when I have more time.

Edit: It seems we cannot link directly anymore.
Just follow the link, then go to TNG, screencaps, season 3, the 3rd page, image number nine.
I hope this helps... :)

[Cpl Kendall]

Have we ever known a range limit to teleporters?

This is a little late but what the hell. It's been done from the outer system by the Orkz before, though I can't find the reference for it.

[GStone]

How far is the 'outer system'? Any mention of it?

[Cpl Kendall]

I got the impression it meant past the last planet. I believe it's the Armageddon system, it's a ten planet system with the third and fourth being habitable. I imagine that gives some idea of the distance from Armageddon itself to past the tenth planet.

[Gniops]

So it looks like its pretty obvious that the Klingons can't actually conquer Armageddon, they don't have the quantity or quality of grounds troops and equipment to defeat the forces present.

Like I said, they cant' actually survive outside on most of the planet.

How far is the 'outer system'? Any mention of it?

Its not exactly unreasonable to posit this is multi-AU in a ten planet system.

It doesnt' actually matter mind, its not like the Klingons have anything like the equivalent transportation capability of the race they are subbing for. (Orks)

[Dagons Child]

i don't believe the klingons would have much problem with this if they devoted enough ships to overwhelm the empires space defences

imagine a flotilla of cloaked klingon ships flying into the atmosphere and taking out the ground defences beaming troops into bunkers and basically acting like hubs for klingon troops


they wouldnt even need to go outside to fight the empire troops because ofn this speed advantage and even when decloaked they would be completely untouchable by any of the aircraft the imperium have which are slower than modern aircraft!

if anybody has seen enterprise then they know why nobody uses tanks in trek because a single handphaser can take them out !

add in shuttles or the klingon type for airsupport although a military grouplike the klingons probabluy has a heavier armed version and its game over.

[Cpl Kendall]

i don't believe the klingons would have much problem with this if they devoted enough ships to overwhelm the empires space defences

First of, it's the Imperium not the Empire. Second a battlegroup of Tau ships (the weakest force in the galaxy) are enough to destroy the entire Klingon fleet, not the fleet attacking Armageddon either. I mean the entire Klingon fleet.

imagine a flotilla of cloaked klingon ships flying into the atmosphere and taking out the ground defences beaming troops into bunkers and basically acting like hubs for klingon troops

The biosphere of Armageddon is a desolate radiation filled wasteland, how do you propose the transporters deal with this? For that matter how do you propose the cloaked ships get into the atmosphere without Imperium auspex detecting the wake of disrupted air behind them? Or the sanctioned psykers picking them up?

they wouldnt even need to go outside to fight the empire troops because ofn this speed advantage and even when decloaked they would be completely untouchable by any of the aircraft the imperium have which are slower than modern aircraft!

Imperium. Armageddon's air defences are on a scale not seen before by Trek powers. The garrison itself is larger than any force we've seen fielded in Trek, all those Mantacore's aren't going to be sitting there doing nothing.

if anybody has seen enterprise then they know why nobody uses tanks in trek because a single handphaser can take them out !

*Sigh* Imperium tanks have armour that can let the crew survive a meltagun shot. A meltagun being something akin to a directed fusion bomb.

add in shuttles or the klingon type for airsupport although a military grouplike the klingons probabluy has a heavier armed version and its game over.

Are you going to prove any of this?

[Dagons Child]

Second a battlegroup of Tau ships (the weakest force in the galaxy) are enough to destroy the entire Klingon fleet, not the fleet attacking Armageddon either. I mean the entire Klingon fleet.

i doubt you can prove that

The biosphere of Armageddon is a desolate radiation filled wasteland, how do you propose the transporters deal with this?

armageddon is so harsh and poisoned that it has vast areas covered in lush jungles and forests.

transporter function might be impaired but it has functioned in such conditions many times in trek

after securing a beachhead the klingons might have to use pattern boosters to secure their transporter links but combine that with close range of cloaked ships in atmosphere and tey should still have a great advantage

For that matter how do you propose the cloaked ships get into the atmosphere without Imperium auspex detecting the wake of disrupted air behind them?

i'd like to see some sort of proof that the imperium has sensors capable of such a feat

Or the sanctioned psykers picking them up?

why would klingons be detectable by psykers they aren't from the same universe or evolution

Armageddon's air defences are on a scale not seen before by Trek powers

armageddons anti-air defences are mostly designed to shoot down atmospheric jet fighters etc

unless you have evidence that they are megaton range weaponry that can engage shuttles or trek fighters which can take trek capital ship fire then all the lascannons and autocannons and missile launchers won't scratch even the shuttles

not to mention that cloaked ships will obvioulsy be able to infiltrate onto the palnets surface and destroy emplacements.

The garrison itself is larger than any force we've seen fielded in Trek, all those Mantacore's aren't going to be sitting there doing nothing.

i'm not worried abotu manticores shuttles can go at high impulse speeds and have ships that take hits from capital ships.

they can avoid or it neccesary ignore the aa fire of such weak and slow missiles.

*Sigh* Imperium tanks have armour that can let the crew survive a meltagun shot. A meltagun being something akin to a directed fusion bomb.

phasers are extremely powerful and potent weapons as well if simple handphasers can blast tanks then heavy rifles should cut a swathe through enemy tanks

when you need specialised and uncommon heavy weapons to contend with the basic firearms of your enemy (which can all zap away entire humanoids with a single shot) even a 40k nut has to admit there is a disadvantage.

Are you going to prove any of this?

i think you should be able to at least accept that the klingons have shuttles similar in capability to the federation failing that birds of prey should be able to take on any heavy ground targets

[Cpl Kendall]

Go read through the thread buddy, everything you've brought up has been mentioned and dealt with. With the added bonus that I can actually understand JMSpock's posts, yours are almost incomprehensible.

[Dagons Child]

Go read through the thread buddy, everything you've brought up has been mentioned and dealt with. With the added bonus that I can actually understand JMSpock's posts, yours are almost incomprehensible.

it looks like you can't answer or prove any of your statements.

[Roondar]

@Cpl Kendall

I'd wager the ships you talk about would be out of ammo ages before they have destroyed all the Klingon ships though. (That is, assuming a battlegroup is a small thing ;))

Besides, it's hard to kill what you can't see.

Other than that, if the yields are like you say they are I don't think the Klingon fleet has much of a chance.

[Roondar]

Go read through the thread buddy, everything you've brought up has been mentioned and dealt with. With the added bonus that I can actually understand JMSpock's posts, yours are almost incomprehensible.

it looks like you can't answer or prove any of your statements.

Actually, it looks like he pointed you to the rest of the thread instead of rehashing things. This is not quite the same.